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QBallz
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:22 pm
#1
Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defendingthe current systemcannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.
If you are going to force people topvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.
This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.
Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.
One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".
There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.
There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.
This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.
Lets so how many people grief this post.
OddjobXL
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:35 pm
#2
Now I could be missing something but aren't you essentially neutral unless you fly to a space station and go overt? As I understand it there are particular sectors that are PvP freeforalls, and you could make the case that no required advancement mission should be there, but most aren't.
This isn't a griefer's paradise. This is a skilled simmer's paradise. Let the groundpoundinggrunts grind, buff and armor themselves into invincibility for hourlong showdowns displaying more about who's got enough free time to earn enough credits to get the best weapons and armour. Me? This is precisely the game I wanted. May not be the best simmer out there but I definitely appreciate the adrenaline rush of winning a battle because I'm the best (or the luckiest) rather than just because I don't have a dayjob. Which I do. So I'm kinda biased towards skill oriented contests and action.
Yeevle
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:40 pm
#3
OddjobXL wrote:
Now I could be missing something but aren't you essentially neutral unless you fly to a space station and go overt? As I understand it there are particular sectors that are PvP freeforalls, and you could make the case that no required advancement mission should be there, but most aren't.
This isn't a griefer's paradise. This is a skilled simmer's paradise. Let the groundpoundinggrunts grind, buff and armor themselves into invincibility for hourlong showdowns displaying more about who's got enough free time to earn enough credits to get the best weapons and armour. Me? This is precisely the game I wanted. May not be the best simmer out there but I definitely appreciate the adrenaline rush of winning a battle because I'm the best (or the luckiest) rather than just because I don't have a dayjob. Which I do. So I'm kinda biased towards skill oriented contests and action.
SWING AND A MISS!!!!
Master missions should not be put in grief space.
yahweh666
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:41 pm
#4
OddjobXL wrote:Now I could be missing something but aren't you essentially neutral unless you fly to a space station and go overt? As I understand it there are particular sectors that are PvP freeforalls, and you could make the case that no required advancement mission should be there, but most aren't.This isn't a griefer's paradise. This is a skilled simmer's paradise. Let the groundpounding grunts grind, buff and armor themselves into invincibility for hourlong showdowns displaying more about who's got enough free time to earn enough credits to get the best weapons and armour. Me? This is precisely the game I wanted. May not be the best simmer out there but I definitely appreciate the adrenaline rush of winning a battle because I'm the best (or the luckiest) rather than just because I don't have a dayjob. Which I do. So I'm kinda biased towards skill oriented contests and action.
I do believe he is refering to doing the master pilot mission in a PVP zone.
IE forcing PVP on players that other wise dont want to or are just looking to get master,
so that they can PVP at a higher level.
Dragonbanisher
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:46 pm
#5
I agree 100% about you wanting to move master out of a PVP zone. Although the CS remark was a bit much. Only newbs complain about AWPers in CS.
Golrok
Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:59 pm
#6
QBallz wrote:Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defendingthe current systemcannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.If you are going to force people topvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.Lets so how many people grief this post.
It only causes RPG carebears with no patience or skill to quit. So what if I get blown up trying master, I guess it just wasnt my day. Go to bed wake up and try again another. Us "griefers" just have more patience and smaller egoes when it comes to killing or being killed. You guys who fear the griefers so bad, you let them win by not beating them at their own games. Why do you think its called a kessel run and not a milk run? Do something about your ship and make it faster- make the kessel run.
Ya maybe its a flame but screw all this spam already. can't you guys keep this rant to one thread instead of redundantly spamming it 100s of times over and over?
Zacrobmer
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:06 pm
#7
QBallz wrote:
Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defendingthe current systemcannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.
If the player is camping Hyperspace points, then yes its griefing, If your flying around Kessel and someone kills you,youshould have been paying attention.
If you are going to force people topvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.
So you think that all MMORPG's should be all carbon copies of each other? Get a wing man or three to cover your back. I guess we could introduce ship buffs, DOT blasters(your ships bleeding!), and 90% composite, and 75% damage reduction, so that the dogfights will take 30 minutes to kill someone, gee that would be fun...
This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.
See reply two....and I'm going to follow with "my" idea of a good Kessel system.....
Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.
One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".
There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.
There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.
Depends on which end your on...
Yes it is because you earned those 4k blasters, you'll have the same ability if you make master....
Shall they tap you on the shoulder, and say "pardon me turning around so I could shoot you from the front?"
And I absolutley agree with you on this, these players are chickensh!t...and should be reported and banned.
This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.
I remember with the launch of SWG people whining about the same thing, "whycan that TKM/ Master brawler whatever, kill me so quick, I'm a 1111 marksman I should be able kill them in one shot" you can insert any profession in to this quote, what did it due they nerfed every decent proffesion. The same thing going to happen again, and space PvP is going to turn into the pure crap that is the ground PvP. Why do you think a combat revamp in the works, because the whol sytem is crap. If you feel someone is griefing you /report them, have you friends report them, have you whole guild report them, some will take notice.
Lets so how many people grief this post.
I'm not griefing your post just tired of all the whining, there is no way to make everyone happy, its impossible, I hate griefing as much as you, I just think one shot kills are griefing, camping yes absolutly. All I can say is group up, get a few wingmen and watch your back....Your balance is another players injustice.
Here's my Idea fro Kessel tell me what you think..........
While, I don't really agree, that you should be forced to PVP to get the Ace title, I do believe that it should not be auto
matically construed as griefing. If I'm an Imp ( and I am) if I'm out in Kessel with my Squadron, and I see a gunship being attacked by some rebs I will defend that gunboat, just as I'd expect the Rebs to defend a Nova or Corvette.... I do believe that if your sitting in a known spawn point waiting for some players just to keep them from accomplishing their mission then yes it would be griefing and should be reported.
There should be a 30 second or 1 minute "grace period" for players jumping into Kessel or deep space just so they have time to load, some people take longer then others....besides anyone who kills some who's loading is chickensh!t anyways.
I've seen all over these forums and in game for the last year and a half, people crying for the GCW, I believe with JTL we finally really have it.
I propose these changes, to the Ace title...
1. Phase One
a. Purely PvE, have 2 or 3 really hard long missions (I'm talking you'll probably need a group). You can't be attacked by the other players, and they can not attack your mission objective, unless they are the same faction.
b. You are however free game to the opposing faction NPC's.
2. Phase Two
a. PvP, pure and simple have a set number of players you must kill, 10, 20, what ever, If you log your kills are saved
i.e You kill three one evening, you need 7 more.....
b. Have combined PvE/PVP, Scenario, you jump to Kessel and recieve the Mission objective A Star Destroyer's hyperdrive is damaged: Defend the Star Destroyer until it can repair its hyperdrive, say 15-30 minutes.
When you get there the Destroyer has a compliment of 5 or so tier 4 TIE's and maybe a bomber or two.
Also once you get there a spawn of Rebs appear, say 4 A-wings a 4 wings and a few B-wings all tier 4, the second
wave consists of a Nova and its escort of 4 A-wings and 4 X-wings. Now here's when it gets good when you receive your Mission message all the other Imperials players get a distress call, giving the closest hyper space point, but the catch is so do the Rebs.....Of course the Rebs/ Privateers get the same type of mission.
b. Again you are free game to opposing faction NPC's.
just an idea.............
There should be a 30 second or 1 minute "grace period" for players jumping into Kessel or deep space just so they have time to load, some people take longer then others....besides anyone who kills some who's loading is chickensh!t anyways.
I've seen all over these forums and in game for the last year and a half, people crying for the GCW, I believe with JTL we finally really have it.
I propose these changes, to the Ace title...
1. Phase One
a. Purely PvE, have 2 or 3 really hard long missions (I'm talking you'll probably need a group). You can't be attacked by the other players, and they can not attack your mission objective, unless they are the same faction.
b. You are however free game to the opposing faction NPC's.
2. Phase Two
a. PvP, pure and simple have a set number of players you must kill, 10, 20, what ever, If you log your kills are saved
i.e You kill three one evening, you need 7 more.....
b. Have combined PvE/PVP, Scenario, you jump to Kessel and recieve the Mission objective A Star Destroyer's hyperdrive is damaged: Defend the Star Destroyer until it can repair its hyperdrive, say 15-30 minutes.
When you get there the Destroyer has a compliment of 5 or so tier 4 TIE's and maybe a bomber or two.
Also once you get there a spawn of Rebs appear, say 4 A-wings a 4 wings and a few B-wings all tier 4, the second
wave consists of a Nova and its escort of 4 A-wings and 4 X-wings. Now here's when it gets good when you receive your Mission message all the other Imperials players get a distress call, giving the closest hyper space point, but the catch is so do the Rebs.....Of course the Rebs/ Privateers get the same type of mission.
b. Again you are free game to opposing faction NPC's.
just an idea.............
MariketheWookiee
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:09 pm
#8
Golrok wrote:
QBallz wrote:Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defending the current system cannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.If you are going to force people to pvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.Lets so how many people grief this post.
It only causes RPG carebears with no patience or skill to quit. So what if I get blown up trying master, I guess it just wasnt my day. Go to bed wake up and try again another. Us "griefers" just have more patience and smaller egoes when it comes to killing or being killed. You guys who fear the griefers so bad, you let them win by not beating them at their own games. Why do you think its called a kessel run and not a milk run? Do something about your ship and make it faster- make the kessel run.
Ya maybe its a flame but screw all this spam already. can't you guys keep this rant to one thread instead of redundantly spamming it 100s of times over and over?
theres no skill in one shots, theres only luck
i dont mind being killed pvp... but i want to have a real dog fight, one that takes awhile of manuvering trying to get behind the enemy to put some good blows in, not one where enemy comes over while im fighting some npcs and just 1 shots me... thats not cool... we arnt asking for pvp to be banished, just that pvp is nerfed down damage wise so we arnt killing eachother in 1-3 shots...
QBallz
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:27 pm
#9
Zacrobmer,
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying make it carbon copy. What I'm saying is this current system has been tried and has failed everytime it has been implemented. I'm all for PvP if it's not a Grief fest. Take Dark Age of Camelot for example, it had a nicely done PvP system that was not force upon anyone, but was still a core part of the game which almost all player would partake in.
I also believe that the system you described would be a good alternative, but would also be extremely hard to implement.
Zacrobmer
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:29 pm
#10
QBallz wrote:
Zacrobmer,
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying make it carbon copy. What I'm saying is this current system has been tried and has failed everytime it has been implemented. I'm all for PvP if it's not a Grief fest. Take Dark Age of Camelot for example, it had a nicely done PvP system that was not force upon anyone, but was still a core part of the game which almost all player would partake in.
I also believe that the system you described would be a good alternative, but would also be extremely hard to implement.
Agreed,
And it couldn't be any harder to implement the say the Imperial hat, oh wait, scratch that................
Golrok
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:44 pm
#11
MariketheWookiee wrote:
Golrok wrote:
QBallz wrote:Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defending the current system cannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.If you are going to force people to pvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.Lets so how many people grief this post.
It only causes RPG carebears with no patience or skill to quit. So what if I get blown up trying master, I guess it just wasnt my day. Go to bed wake up and try again another. Us "griefers" just have more patience and smaller egoes when it comes to killing or being killed. You guys who fear the griefers so bad, you let them win by not beating them at their own games. Why do you think its called a kessel run and not a milk run? Do something about your ship and make it faster- make the kessel run.
Ya maybe its a flame but screw all this spam already. can't you guys keep this rant to one thread instead of redundantly spamming it 100s of times over and over?
theres no skill in one shots, theres only luck
i dont mind being killed pvp... but i want to have a real dog fight, one that takes awhile of manuvering trying to get behind the enemy to put some good blows in, not one where enemy comes over while im fighting some npcs and just 1 shots me... thats not cool... we arnt asking for pvp to be banished, just that pvp is nerfed down damage wise so we arnt killing eachother in 1-3 shots...
But has anyone really touched RE I mean deeply understood it? I'm not for 1 shot kill either but have we not found rare components or something that factors in to longer fights? I think its to early to know yet until we find more prized ship components but I could be wrong. I'm all for a good fight but I'm ignorant cause no one will accept my duels and I figured the fights would last somewhat as long as against NPC. I just think it might be too early to know for sure if a reduction is needed. At least at master level we should all be fighting longer than 2 shot kill for sure.
Palad
Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:53 pm
#12
I got an idea, why dont you go to a total PVP game if your so H@RdC0r3 about us carebears and how we dont like dealing with pvp when we have other objectives on our mind? No one its trying to take your precious PVP away from you, so you are free to one shot kill others exactly like you into oblivion. We just dont want to deal with you when we are trying to get to master pilot, doing an allready dificult mission, without 20 D00Dz like you swarming over us and one shoting our ships. We promise we will come and "play a game of skillz" with you when we are equiped and not trying to do something else. But at the moment, we just dont feel like seeing you when we attempt to acomplish a hard mission. Its not an attack on your genital size, nor is it an attempt to run you guys out of SWG. We just dont like your griefing. How exactly it scares you so bad to not have the master mission in kessel is beyond me, unless ofcourse you are somehow treatened in your l33tness that others might have master and have a fair shot?
Golrok wrote:
QBallz wrote:
Seriously anyone who says the pvp system is fine the way it is, is pretty much a griefer. If you look at the other arguments on this board, you can see that pretty much the only people defendingthe current systemcannot make a coherent argument and result to attacking the person's character.
If you are going to force people topvp then make a pvp system that works, the ability to one or two shot someone in an MMORPG is generally not a good pvp system. This is basically MMORPG Counterstrike in space where everyone has an AWP. The only problem with this is that 90% of the time your trying to kill an NPC for a stupid mission, and have it fail because someone flys in and one shots you.
This is basically griefing at it's finest. Just look at Ultima Online, same exact problem, you where trying to kill an NPC and get ganked by some PKer. It was griefing then, and it is griefing now, and there is pretty much no way to defend it other than that you get off from causing grief to other players.
Getting one shotted is not exciting or fun.
One shotting someone is not exciting or fun nor is it "challenging".
There is no skill involved in one shotting someone from behind.
There is no skill involved in camping hyperspace points.
This form of grief has existed in other MMORPG and in all cases the PvP system was either heavily modified or a PvP "Switch" was implemented. The reason is basically that the ability to grief without consequence ruins the game for everyone but the griefers, and causes people to quit.
Lets so how many people grief this post.
It only causes RPG carebears with no patience or skill to quit. So what if I get blown up trying master, I guess it just wasnt my day. Go to bed wake up and try again another. Us "griefers" just have more patience and smaller egoes when it comes to killing or being killed. You guys who fear the griefers so bad, you let them win by not beating them at their own games. Why do you think its called a kessel run and not a milk run? Do something about your ship and make it faster- make the kessel run.
Ya maybe its a flame but screw all this spam already. can't you guys keep this rant to one thread instead of redundantly spamming it 100s of times over and over?
CerionSkydreamer
Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:04 pm
#13
yahweh666 wrote:
OddjobXL wrote:Now I could be missing something but aren't you essentially neutral unless you fly to a space station and go overt? As I understand it there are particular sectors that are PvP freeforalls, and you could make the case that no required advancement mission should be there, but most aren't.This isn't a griefer's paradise. This is a skilled simmer's paradise. Let the groundpounding grunts grind, buff and armor themselves into invincibility for hourlong showdowns displaying more about who's got enough free time to earn enough credits to get the best weapons and armour. Me? This is precisely the game I wanted. May not be the best simmer out there but I definitely appreciate the adrenaline rush of winning a battle because I'm the best (or the luckiest) rather than just because I don't have a dayjob. Which I do. So I'm kinda biased towards skill oriented contests and action.
I do believe he is refering to doing the master pilot mission in a PVP zone.
IE forcing PVP on players that other wise dont want to or are just looking to get master,
so that they can PVP at a higher level.
I'm ambivelant about the whole PvP/kessel thing. But I have to point out this inaccurate statement. You don't need master pilot to PvP better. You get no skill bonuses with higher level in a twitch based game. In fact, the ships you DO get at master level aren't very well suited for PvP anyway. Now on the ground game this certainly IS true. But in space, it is not.
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