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Thread: Master Shipwright Calling Out False Mass! Developers Fix!
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LordSpawnAntilles
Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:51 am
#1
Okay I have noticed as a Master Shipwright that they need to fix the Mass situation with the ships. They are completly incorrect with the size of there ship and the mass they have!
I am not Imperial but, it is unfair to Imperial Pilots and Freelance Pilots the way they did the Mass. The Rebels got all the mass in this and they have much smaller ships than the Freelance Pilots. The Imperials just didn't get any mass at all. All the Imperial fighters haveLESS than 100k Mass except 3. All the Rebel fighters have OVER 100k Mass except 2.... Funny thing is most of there ships are smaller....
Here is a list of all the ships average MASS in the game....
Imperial Starships
Tie Advanced 65k Mass
Tie Aggressor 120k Mass
Tie Bomber 190k Mass
Tie Fighter 25k Mass
Tie/IN 40K Mass
Tie Interceptor 50k Mass
Tie Light Duty 12k Mass
Tie Oppresser 150k Mass
VT-49 Decimator 500k Mass
Freelance Starships
Dunelizard 70k Mass
Kimogilia 90k Mass
Ixiyen 80k Mass
Kihraxz 30k Mass
Rihkxyrk 130k Mass
Scyk 12k Mass
YT-1300 500K Mass
Rebel Alliance
A-Wing 65k Mass
B-Wing 240k Mass
X-Wing 100k Mass
Y-Wing 150k Mass
Y-Wing 170k Mass
Z-95 12K Mass
YKL-37R Nova Courier 500k Mass
This should tell all! For my closing example the A-wing the smallest and hardest ship to hit in the game, has more mass than 7 other ships on the list... There should be no argument here its flat out obvious this is wrong and they need to restructure the mass system in this game....
Message Edited by LordSpawnAntilles on 11-01-2004 12:12 AM
Message Edited by LordSpawnAntilles on 11-01-2004 07:53 AM
LordSpawnAntilles
Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:57 am
#2
THE IXIYEN is another prime example of how wrong the mass is... It is2 to 3 timesas big as any of the rebel fighters and only the Rebel A-wing and Z-95 have less Mass than it....
Joukahainen
Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:10 am
#3
It seems to me that there is more involved than just mass. For one thing... I've noticed that even though I had (flying a kimo now) a better engine in my dunelizard than my friend had in her tie fighter, she was much faster in her tie fighter. So, the way it worked out is that she had more speed and maybe even more agility, I had better firepower.
I just don't believe the Dev's are unaware of the mass that is available for each ship. I'm sure they have all the numbers right in front of them.
I just don't believe the Dev's are unaware of the mass that is available for each ship. I'm sure they have all the numbers right in front of them.
Wyelkoon
Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:26 am
#4
Well this thread is proof at least half of the people who play SWG have never seen Star Wars. The Imperials have tons of pilots. They don't like big ships with big payloads: Light cheap ships without shield gens and hyperdrives with decent blasters, in massive numbers. The imperial philosophy. The rebels are the opposite. They have few pilots; Every pilot needs to be armed to the teeth with heavy armor and shield generators.
While I agree that privateer masses could use some adjusting, the imperial/rebel masses are fine, and if adjusted should be adjusted propornantly. (As a sidenote, Ive filled up my DuneLiz [60k] up to the brim with heavy weapons, capicators, etc, and I am still at 30k. All heavy components... 700hp armor, 800hp shields, double annihalator cannons with 1.2k damage, A mark 3 proton launcher with 12 missles loaded... etc. Only 30k.)
badger3
Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:37 am
#5
I think the problem is the privateer doesn’t really have a large Bomber class ship like the Bwing, TIE Bomber, and Y-wing. Now while I’d like to have one sometimes, have you seen the performance on those, they are flying trucks.
The other problem is the most of the Privateer ships are almost the same, the Kimogilia and Rihxyrk are exactly the same in performance except for masses, so we’ll never see the Kimo once you get to Tier 4, which is a shame, I really like how it looks.
The Privateer profession really needs more verity in its ships, there is one fast attack ship the Kihraxz which is a joke do to its size and mass. Really there needs to be a wider range of masses and performances to distinguish them.
It would make a lot of sense if the Kimogila where more of a bomber with a mass of 180-220 and the performance of a snail, and the Ixiyen where maybe 50K, and the overall size of the ship cut in half.
The other problem is the most of the Privateer ships are almost the same, the Kimogilia and Rihxyrk are exactly the same in performance except for masses, so we’ll never see the Kimo once you get to Tier 4, which is a shame, I really like how it looks.
The Privateer profession really needs more verity in its ships, there is one fast attack ship the Kihraxz which is a joke do to its size and mass. Really there needs to be a wider range of masses and performances to distinguish them.
It would make a lot of sense if the Kimogila where more of a bomber with a mass of 180-220 and the performance of a snail, and the Ixiyen where maybe 50K, and the overall size of the ship cut in half.
Kodpese
Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:41 am
#6
The type of chassis you use does apply modifiers to the components you place in it.
For example, I bought a Y-Wing chassis and simply moved all the gear from my Z95 into it. The result was my engine speed was lower, my turn/pitch/yaw etc rates were much lower, but armour, shields and weapons received a big boost (especialy the capacitor recharge) - using the exact same components I ended up with 2 completely different ships. One weak but fast and highly manueverable and one that handled like a drunken whale but could take a pounding and dish out damage forever and a day.
So, I assume form this that all chassis have these types of modifiers and this is where the balance comes in - your TIE may not be able to use the 'best' components out there but you will get much better performance from what you do have than someone in a same tier rebel ship.
Therefore, mass is not the be all and end all it might appear to be...
Joukahainen
Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:50 am
#7
Wyelkoon wrote:Well this thread is proof at least half of the people who play SWG have never seen Star Wars. The Imperials have tons of pilots. They don't like big ships with big payloads: Light cheap ships without shield gens and hyperdrives with decent blasters, in massive numbers. The imperial philosophy. The rebels are the opposite. They have few pilots; Every pilot needs to be armed to the teeth with heavy armor and shield generators.While I agree that privateer masses could use some adjusting, the imperial/rebel masses are fine, and if adjusted should be adjusted propornantly. (As a sidenote, Ive filled up my DuneLiz [60k] up to the brim with heavy weapons, capicators, etc, and I am still at 30k. All heavy components... 700hp armor, 800hp shields, double annihalator cannons with 1.2k damage, A mark 3 proton launcher with 12 missles loaded... etc. Only 30k.)
Yes, my dunelizard was pretty much maxed out with level 5 components. I don't remember what the stats were on my engine, but it was pretty nice. But, I still couldn't keep up with even tier I tie fighters.
Tumbler2002
Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:33 am
#8
Well this thread is proof at least half of the people who play SWG have never seen Star Wars. The Imperials have tons of pilots. They don't like big ships with big payloads: Light cheap ships without shield gens and hyperdrives with decent blasters, in massive numbers. The imperial philosophy. The rebels are the opposite. They have few pilots; Every pilot needs to be armed to the teeth with heavy armor and shield generators.
That argument doesn't hold any water because SWG doesn't follow the movie. Imperials don't have more pilots, we don't have better blasters, and we don't have massive numbers. The current setup is awful, both sides can use all the weapons. (Tie fighters can sound like Xwings)There aren't special imperial blasters that do a ton more damage. There is no point in fighting pvp or the GCW because the imperials will never have an advantage. The rebels will always outnumber us unless the devs somehow make the rebel pilot track much more difficult and rare. As is we have a ton of rebel pilots that are advancing faster than most imperial pilots, and once both pilots get to the top, the rebels have an absurd advantage.
There are so many solutions or changes that could make this more fun that it's almost pointless to talk about it until the devs make a decision.
1. You could drop the mass on the rebel ships so they more closely match up against the imperial ships.
2. We could make imperial/rebel only tech items that reflected their advantages/disadvantages. (IE imperial blasters do much more dmg than the comparable rebel blaster. Imperial engines would be much better than rebel engines. Rebel shields would be better than imperial shields. Imperial armour would be better than rebel armor.) This would at least give the imperials an edge they need.
3. Flood space with the Empire. The empire feels like a secret force that is never seen. There are so many ships in space and it's very rare that any of them are imperial. Give the empire it's massive numbers. Give imperial pilots wingmen, 4 of them at least to compensate for the horrible odds they face.
4. Imperial special abilities. Why can't we call for backup? We are supposed to have an army behind us and we're hopelessly outnumbered when it comes to battles. We get to call in a wave of tie bombers at tier 3, and another one at tier 4? We should be able to call tie fitghter/tie interceptors, Star Destroyers, Gun Boats, everything we can think of. The empire is supposed to use overwhelming force but they keep sending pilots out in lone tie fighters, what are they waiting for?
5. You could also raise the mass allowances on the imperial ships so they mimic the rebel ships.
6. Acceleration/deceleration - Ships with a lot of mass should take an absurd amount of time to stop/turn. That means that a 240k mass ship should get eaten alive by a 40k ship with a great engine.
fav
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:01 am
#9
Yeah, being a privateer myself I'm probably a little biased here, but I agree. My Ixiyen (medium black sun) has a mass of 80k and I've pretty much filled it, while my rebel buddies keep loading more and more into their y-wings. Now my ixi should OBLITERATE a y-wing (so long as my pilot skills are up to snuff) when properly loaded but the point is I just can't equip some of my high-end components due to mass limitations. The bigger ships (like my Kimo) are nice and beefy but they fly like bricks and the rebel ships crawl all over me. I guess the point here is that Privateers get the better deal in the GCW since they can fly for either side, and maybe this mass limitation is a way to keep some balance between the professions. Still it kinda sucks for us privateers. In a vote though I'd probably urge the devs NOT to change this since there would be a sudden surge in the number of privateers. Let me get Flight Artistry before you all start privateer ok? j/k I'm not even close yet.... or am I??? =P
TheBobulus
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:09 am
#10
You realize that heavier mass is offset by penalties in other areas, right? Heavy ships like the TIE bomber and Y-wing turn very slowly. I can't speak for the TIE/Bomber, but my Y-wing, when I insert a 56.0 speed engine, get somewhere around 450 speed.
I played both Imperial and Rebel in the beta and had no problem with either. Can't speak for the neutrals.
I played both Imperial and Rebel in the beta and had no problem with either. Can't speak for the neutrals.
XFS0701
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:12 am
#11
I'm waiting to get the last 250k I need before I can use my Rihkxyrk...until then, I'm still using my Kimogila. For being a 'heavy' fighter, I can't even fully equip it with MkIV equipment. I can only fit 2of 3 advancedblasters on it (both modified for decreased mass), had to settle on a smaller, looted booster, looted capacitor. I have a crafted MkIV reactor that's been modified for increased output and decreased mass, MkIII armor plating....no droid interface, no countermeasures, and an old MkII proton launcher. And my mass on this "heavy" fighter is maxed out...and I don't even have all MkIV equipment on it. And there's no use 'upgrading' to an Ixiyen, since it has less mass than the Kimo.
It's kind of like....do you want equipment you can use, but sacrifice to make it fit, or do you want a full-loaded craft with equipment that's a tier or two below you?
Message Edited by XFS0701 on 11-01-2004 10:13 AM
Sothicus_Kitara
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:13 am
#12
I don't know if this opinion is worth a grain of salt to you guys but...
During beta I know there was one thing that the devs (JustG, I think) alluded to. That was playability of all of the ships versus staying canon to the SWG universe that LucasArts wanted. Staying canonmeant that the Z-95 had to be a piece of crap, the X-Wing had to be a space superiority fighter, the Y-Wing a workhorse, the TIE/In fall apart in two shots, etc. etc. etc.
So... if they did as canon, everyone would be flying around in B-Wings, A-Wings, Tie/Opressors,and never the lower end TIE/In, Y-Wing, etc., even though these were the staple of the navies involved. And that in of itself would break canon.
So.. they compensated by giving VERY good masses to certain ships while making certain aspects (speed, manueverability, etc.) tied to the chassis type AND adjusted for the individual tiers.
Thus an A-Wing...although light and manueverable has quite a bit of mass available due to the fact that it is a level 4 tier ship. Any ship components at tier 4 (i.e. 8th level) are going to take up a quarter of that weight. Therefore the level 4 ship is sacrificing quality of components for size and speed.
It's actually quite an ingenous compromise... and though I do believe that some tweaking would be nice, I don't think an entire overhaul is necessary.
*Note I avoided the privateer ships because I don't know as much about them in regards to Tiers, canon, etc.
XFS0701
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:15 am
#13
Eh....actually, they did that first and skimped on 'canon' sentiment even though most of us beta testers espoused it. You can do it by limited gun hardpoints, etc. Or by introducing a system of mass available per component type.
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