Jump To Lightspeed Archive

Thread: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.

FalinMor
Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:04 pm
#105






Juusman wrote:

Once again the whiners and complainers get their way. Well TH.. I hope you make this mission more difficult then.. at least force people to group up to get it done. But I guess then all the solo PvE artists would be nextin lineto step up and whine and complain...


Couldn't you at least split the mission into two master missions? One for rebels/imps that takes place in a PvP zone, and one for neutral faction players that take place in the PvE zone? That way the players have an option of not having to PvP... and can still obtain the YT 1300 and Firespray.






You ALREADY have to group up to finish the corvette mission, even without thinking about other players.


I hope this is just a stopgap solution to stop the bleeding until a better solution can be implemented. It'd be a shame to lose a PvP sector over this... but that's still preferable to the current system.


Falin


Slarus
Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:05 pm
#106


WHY? why change kessel, simply move the missions to another zone, sorry i hate the idea of forced PvP but i hate to see PvP taken away from people who want to do it. And i like the idea of a zone where everyone was attackable, not just the opposing factions.


Please just move the dam missions, leave kessel alone


It's not just as simple to move it. If I had to guess this is gonna be done till they can implement a new build that fixes PvP in Kessel and either moves the mission out of Kessel or creates a temp PvE flag for those doing the Master Mission.


I think this is just a temp fix so calm down let them work on this, we got input form the Devs so we know they are aware now we need to give them a chance to work out the details,
InfluenzaSWTA
Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:05 pm
#107



SetzerZell wrote:
WHY? why change kessel, simply move the missions to another zone, sorry i hate the idea of forced PvP but i hate to see PvP taken away from people who want to do it. And i like the idea of a zone where everyone was attackable, not just the opposing factions.
Please just move the dam missions, leave kessel alone




Go to Deep Space.



---------
Korren Faihon, Squad Leader, Alliance Ace Pilot.
The Explorer's Guide to the Clone Relics

SWG Wiki: if we don't know it, no one does.
One of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire was, lacking the number 0, they had no way to indicate successful return from their C programs.
jefmes
Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:05 pm
#108






Thunderheart wrote:




Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.


On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:



  • Kessel becomes a PvE zone

  • Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP


    • Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-200405:11 PM





      BAH!


      I hardly PvP on the ground and I STILL think some PvP is good to be considered a MASTER in a twitch based MULTIPLAYER piloting gameis a good thing. We don't need to get rid of PvP for the Master box, we just need to fix starship to starship PvP so it isn't one-hit kills. Same or similar damage reduction rules for the ground should apply in space.

      Message Edited by jefmes on 11-09-2004 03:06 PM




      Rodo Doneeta (jefmes)
      TCO - Smuggler - Chilastra
      Owner of: Rodo's Automatons, Tsarin, Talus
      Saving a respec to go home to Droid Engineering...

      ...when it's more useful!
      FalinMor
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:07 pm
      #109






      InfluenzaSWTA wrote:





      SetzerZell wrote:

      WHY? why change kessel, simply move the missions to another zone, sorry i hate the idea of forced PvP but i hate to see PvP taken away from people who want to do it. And i like the idea of a zone where everyone was attackable, not just the opposing factions.


      Please just move the dam missions, leave kessel alone






      Go to Deep Space.




      Deep Space requires both Master AND a significant amount of Prestige points every time you want to enter. It's not nearly as accessible as Kessel.


      Falin


      RougeSmuggler
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:08 pm
      #110






      Slarus wrote:




      It's not just as simple to move it. If I had to guess this is gonna be done till they can implement a new build that fixes PvP in Kessel and either moves the mission out of Kessel or creates a temp PvE flag for those doing the Master Mission.


      I think this is just a temp fix so calm down let them work on this, we got input form the Devs so we know they are aware now we need to give them a chance to work out the details,







      If this was true then I would agree with you. But nothing has been said that makes this out to be a temperorary solution. And with the history of MMGs I don't think that your interpretation is correct. It's typical to make a knee jerk reaction and ruin an entire game mechanic because a minor part of it was broken. MMG fixes fall along the lines of If it's broken, then just remove it!


      And thats not a diss on SWG, all MMG fall victim to this philosphy.



      -ted
      Lires
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:11 pm
      #111

      I wholeheartedly disagree with making Kessel a PvE zone. I had to deal with the Rebels trying to thrawt my plans in destroying the Corvette and they utterly failed and I EARNED my Ace title. That's right EARNED. Do I agree with camping spawns? Nope I don't. There has to be a way to warp in at different parts without camping being rampant.


      Since Kessel is being made into a PvE zone as already stated Iwould like to see a PvP Kessel system as well. Make two instances but give those that decide to go the PvP route have a better reward. A better reward, more rewarding, perhaps pants, boots, and hatto go along with the Ace Jacket we recieve as well as a matching color TIE suit with the Ace Helmet.


      What happens now? Now there will be massive amounts of people in Deepspace (which I don't mind seeing) and they will complain about something else. The Star Destoryer is too strong, etc. etc. etc. I am disappointed in these changes to Kessel as myself and a handful of others have escorted the Star Ravager to safety mutliple times to hinder the advancement of Rebel Ace Pilots. Basically this is a slap to the face to myself and those for the time we spent achieving nothing for the Empire.



      Erzenzia Silver s Goddess of Delta
      s Delta s Vulcan's In-game Girl s
      You don't know the power of the CUTE side
      Slarus
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:12 pm
      #112


      If this was true then I would agree with you. But nothing has been said that makes this out to be a temperorary solution. And with the history of MMGs I don't think that your interpretation is correct. It's typical to make a knee jerk reaction and ruin an entire game mechanic because a minor part of it was broken. MMG fixes fall along the lines of If it's broken, then just remove it!


      And thats not a diss on SWG, all MMG fall victim to this philosphy.


      We are all a pack of wolves would you want to make a promise that you don't know what the outcome will be?
      RebalMarineHunter
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:29 pm
      #113

      Crud, there goes some content and the watering down has begun!

      Kessel was fun, it was dangerous, now the true dangers of the area have been removed and so has some of the fun. Oh well, knew it was going to happen I suppose.


      Soon there will be many masters and they will want to go to deep space. Many of these masters will be insulted by the pvp aspect there and that you have to suffer with pvp in order to fight the mega ships there. They will cry out to this respect and soon the devs will make deep space a master pve zone in order to appease this population.


      Then, in order to have a pvp zone they will create another zone but with no content. That way the non pvp types will not complain about it. So, we will have a big boring pvp zone because if they actually made it anything beyond that they would have to nerf it too.


      As I said, it was expected, but it still hurts.


      Joshua Theo




      sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
      Joshua Theo
      sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
      Antarian Ranger League - Co-Founder
      Black Rose Industries, Shipwright - South Coronet 159 -5490
      KaptainKrude
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:40 pm
      #114






      Thunderheart wrote:






      Juusman wrote:

      Once again the whiners and complainers get their way. Well TH.. I hope you make this mission more difficult then.. at least force people to group up to get it done. But I guess then all the solo PvE artists would be nextin lineto step up and whine and complain...


      Couldn't you at least split the mission into two master missions? One for rebels/imps that takes place in a PvP zone, and one for neutral faction players that take place in the PvE zone? That way the players have an option of not having to PvP... and can still obtain the YT 1300 and Firespray.





      One the first part, I disagree. It is a great idea, but there are some additional challenges. People with hot boxes have the advantage over PvE players with "not cutting edge" computers and players are getting killed during load times and really, no one likes to get camped, regardless of playstyle. I've talked to a lot of players who are just "regular players" and having a tough time with it.


      As far as splitting it into two different types of missions, I dont think that will happen, but we are considering an alternate advancement for the PvP missions. Nothing in stone yet. We are just working on accomodating players who are just trying to get their master box.








      TH, first off thanks for the give and take.


      I'd like to add a thought/suggestion to this PVP/PVE issue, and ask a basic question.


      In your opinion (not official SWG team policy, I know you can't speak to that) should PvP ever come with a greater reward to go with it's greater risk?


      I ask this because it seems to me that it lies at the heart of this matter and many others like it.


      I'd like to assert my opinion that it should in certain cases carry a reward for players that PvP the is above and beyond the PvE game. GreenMarine put forth this idea in his Smuggler revamp documents, and I couldn't agree more. All players play with a basic idea that thier efforts will result in some reward. In PvE this is a staple... kill animals for hides/bones... kill NPCs for loot... plant harvesters for resources, etc. In PvP, this concept for some reason gets thrown out of the window leaving a PvPer's only reward as "I killed that guy". Why not give PvPers a reward for thier risks... risks that are generally far more "dangerous" (so to speak) than simple PvE?


      I'll cut the essay short there, but I and many other PvP friendly players would love to see this and are concerned that it'll never be possible if in the interests of "fairness" all rewards are handed to all players. There are loads of rewards in the game that are specific to professions and playstyles and are not granted to anyone else... why should PvP be the lone exception in that concept?


      Thanks!




      NTyekanik CorrinoN
      New Dawn City
      Naboo

      a1davida1
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:40 pm
      #115

      How is ruining all space pvp for anyone other than master, and confining the LARGE AMOUNT of pvpers (i would say closer to 20% if you count out crafters since they should be neither pvp, nor pvpers if they are so opposed to combat to become a crafter), to one single zone a solution to the master mission problem, thats like having lung cancer and beating your chest in with a ballpeen hammer to get the cancer out. You solve one problem but create a much much bigger one. JTL was supposed to "save swg". However all im hearing now is people talking about quitting because their pvp is ruined.


      MY SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM

      (but first a few points)

      Point One: Alot of people don't like pvp, instead opting for pve. One can conclude from this they enjoy pve, or they would not play this game.

      Point Two: Master mission should be Hard, but perhaps if they don't want to pvp they should'nt have to.

      Point Three: To get the fastest xp you have to make sacrifices, being watchful for pvp is the sacrifice you have to make by xping in kessel (The best xp in the game imo).


      Solution. Create TWO Kessels.


      Kessel One.


      -Instanced

      -Inhabited by slightly higher level forms of the kessel mobs

      -Inhabited by a corvette (or similar ship) with roughly twice as much power as the original one so getting master is still a challenge but you dont have to pvp. The current corvette would be far to easy for a master mission were there not pvp involved, this is proven by the fact that I and many others in my guild alone could SOLO the corvette. With this new powered up corvette, teamwork would be nescessary to kill it, Perhaps it would have its own wings of fighters, or send out a distress signal calling reinforcements to it.


      Kessel Two


      - The Kessel we all know and love (minus the noisy minority)

      - Normal master mission there with normal corvette, and normal pvp



      This solution will not only save pvp, and possibly this expansion, but allow the people who cannot handle pvp to not have to do it. Works for everyone, pvpers, whiners, even you corrospondends and devs who dont have to hear any more b!tching.




      - Davol Repsan
      -Delta
      FalinMor
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:44 pm
      #116






      a1davida1 wrote:

      How is ruining all space pvp for anyone other than master, and confining the LARGE AMOUNT of pvpers (i would say closer to 20% if you count out crafters since they should be neither pvp, nor pvpers if they are so opposed to combat to become a crafter), to one single zone a solution to the master mission problem, thats like having lung cancer and beating your chest in with a ballpeen hammer to get the cancer out. You solve one problem but create a much much bigger one. JTL was supposed to "save swg". However all im hearing now is people talking about quitting because their pvp is ruined.


      MY SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM

      (but first a few points)

      Point One: Alot of people don't like pvp, instead opting for pve. One can conclude from this they enjoy pve, or they would not play this game.

      Point Two: Master mission should be Hard, but perhaps if they don't want to pvp they should'nt have to.

      Point Three: To get the fastest xp you have to make sacrifices, being watchful for pvp is the sacrifice you have to make by xping in kessel (The best xp in the game imo).


      Solution. Create TWO Kessels.


      Kessel One.


      -Instanced

      -Inhabited by slightly higher level forms of the kessel mobs

      -Inhabited by a corvette (or similar ship) with roughly twice as much power as the original one so getting master is still a challenge but you dont have to pvp. The current corvette would be far to easy for a master mission were there not pvp involved, this is proven by the fact that I and many others in my guild alone could SOLO the corvette. With this new powered up corvette, teamwork would be nescessary to kill it, Perhaps it would have its own wings of fighters, or send out a distress signal calling reinforcements to it.


      Kessel Two


      - The Kessel we all know and love (minus the noisy minority)

      - Normal master mission there with normal corvette, and normal pvp



      This solution will not only save pvp, and possibly this expansion, but allow the people who cannot handle pvp to not have to do it. Works for everyone, pvpers, whiners, even you corrospondends and devs who dont have to hear any more b!tching.






      I agree with this whole post, with the exception of the "noisy minority" and "whiners"crack. People who don't really like PvP are now and have always been the very solid majority in MMORPGs. And the whiners thing is just flat-out immature and wrong.


      Other than that, good idea. I don't think two Kessels is too much to ask at all.


      Falin


      dIo_oIb
      Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:46 pm
      #117




      Thunderheart wrote:






      Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.


      On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:




    • Kessel becomes a PvE zone
    • Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

    • Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-2004 05:11 PM



      Thank you for killing the onlyreason why I don't play WoW.




      Teo's Temp Base of Operations for Forum Management.
      House Cleaning Skill tape and clothing Auction!!!
      House Cleaning resource Auction!!!

      Iflm Steel, Upe Copper, Cubrian Steel,Nahi Tat fiberplast, as well as other goodies
      Page 9 of 29