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MusicManZarick wrote:

I have to disagree with you here.. you DO have to PVP to get to the higher levels of Jedi. However, I also disagree with Jedi running around in the first place, given the time-frame of the game, but that's a moot point. However, I agree with Jedi having the PVP requirements, because they SHOULD be rare. More than they are now. A master Pilot, however, should not be something that is "rare". The ability to fly a YT-1300 should not be limited to only PVP players, when it is one of the most common ships in the galaxy for traders, both honest and smugglers, and is one of the easier ships in official canon to get.

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Anti-Jedirant aside, this is irrelevant.

Jedi is not one of the out-of-box professions. It's considered and earned reward to be able to play a Jedi so the devsget tomake then jump through all kinds of nasty hoops like forced PvP (this requirement, btw was designed to scare a lot of people away from playing knights).

With JTL, the pilot profession is an out-of-box profession. You buy JtL and you get Pilot and Shipwright. In this scenario, you want your players to be happy... PvP players AND non-PvP players. You never do crazy stuff like forcing people to PvP under these circumstances.

PvP is used for Jedi to drive people away from the profession... why on earth they would want to do this with a standard profession (Pilot) is beyond me.

-- A6

Somehow, I think we just agreed with each other, even if it doesn't look like it.....




/e shrugs.

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Bullbyte wrote:

Uther27 .. your just a plane piece of crap ok? Just go flush yourself along with your gimp opinions. I for am tired of your upside down logic you post repeatedly. No one is "handing anybody" anything. The mission alone is ample challange for anyone trying to make MP. You and the other slime ball griefers are what this game needs to get rid of if it's going to keep people who DO NOT enjoy PvP in it. Kapeesh? Jerk

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Tell me.. was this drivel really needed? Do you think somehow that you have helped this discussion with this load of bantha poodoo? Because you're not helping me in this discussion by coming in here and making insults like this. This kind of craptacular post is exactly what keeps the flame wars flying and prevents those of us actually trying to discuss the topic from being seen. If you are actually against the forced PVP, then post something useful to aid this discussion, instead of proving half the people you just insulted right, sheesh.

Uther, ignore this troll, please, but I would like to read your response to my last post towards you, if you have one.

/cough

Post by TH

On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:


# Kessel becomes a PvE zone
# Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

Sorry to see you are disappointed, Uther.. guess it's like you said, if they change it, someone will still complain. At least this goes to show that if enough people raise their voices on an issue, it'll be looked into and addressed, however. Clear skies, mate, hope you still enjoy your game with the fact that you can PVP in Deep Space, hopefully they'll remove the "prestige points" crap from that and make it trully open PVP.

Message Edited by Rebelwarlord on 11-09-2004 04:06 PM

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Rebelwarlord wrote:

The damage a player ship can do to another player is totally ridiculous, the only way players can win a fight against another player is whoever is lined up in the crosshairs first and fires first!

HOLY GOD WE HAVE A WINNER! you Know.. thats How it works In Most Flight-sims.. and OMG Real Life

That is not only unfair and stupid, but takes no tactics or skill, just line up first and shoot, the other player is dead!! What a crock!

No Skill? If your the one who died... he had more skill than you In order to get you in the Crosshairs. beleve me it takes skill to beable to Aim, Dont get me started On Air/Space maneuvers and their Use and Tactics to Shake a Bandit

In the past 3 days of trying to do this mission, I have been blasted out of the sky in 1 or 2 hit kills, and 90% of the time that I died, I didn't even know there was anyone there, never knew who it was.

if it was a Spawn Kill, then he was A pen15less baby, if it was heading out toward your Target, then it was your fault for not Having Situational awareness of what was around you

The Devs really need to adjust the damage output of player vs. player, because the 1 or 2 hit kills is stupid!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I agree. but 5-6 Hits max atleast to bare Hull or to Drop Sheilds then + 5-6 more to Get thoriught the Hull 12 max total

And another thing I noticed, I am in a X-wing, and I did get to fire first on 2 separate occasions 2 master pilot ship, although I fired several shots and disabled them, I was never able to destroy them because there was always one of his buddies right there to 1 shot me!!

Then thats your own Sick Fault, its the law of the Jungle out there Kill or be killed. only the Strong and the Fast Survive.

I recommend Study Air Combat, yea the Energy Battles Dont Work In space (ya Knowthe management of Kinetic and Potential Energy in aerial combat) But all Other Tactics do work. even the Cheezy "Hit the Breaks and they'll fly right By" Tactics.

Also, it Helsp to be Extreemly Paraniod when out in a PVP area, I made it through 5 Years of UO w/ Only 2 PK deaths to My name because I was Paranoid and Shafty.

Message Edited by ExarKunn on 11-09-2004 10:42 PM

Message Edited by ExarKunn on 11-09-2004 11:19 PM

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Uther27 wrote:
Alright, I came off badly in that last post, so I will be completely straight here. I don't think that if you don't want PVP you want everything handed to you. I think that if you want this mission moved out of Kessel that you want the difficulty toned down to be able to solo it by removing random players able to attack you. I think that given enough time by myself that I can take the gunships and corvette by myself. I think that if I am not worrying about players that all I need is time and have no use of grouping and making them waste their playtime on me.

I know that if this was moved to a "normal" zone that had the same characteristics of a tough PVE mssion with a random amount of NPCs that are highly aggro and can 1-2 shot you, but you can 1 - 2 shot them based on current server population that there would still be just as much complaining.

I think that most of the PVE people are just waving the banner of the "evil griefers" to get others on their side so that the Devs will cave and move it out of Kessel.

I am still firmly convinced that with proper planning and execution that accomplishing this mission will always be possible.

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That is a more defendable standpoint, and an issue I can actual discuss with you. Thanks for coming back with a statement we can discuss, I do appreciate it. I disagree with you on a few points here, and I'm going to break it down by point:

I think that if you want this mission moved out of Kessel that you want the difficulty toned down to be able to solo it by removing random players able to attack you.
No one has asked specifically that this be a "Solo capable" mission, at least not that I've seen. Some might argue that it *should* be solo capable, because of whatever reasons they choose to present. If they have valid arguments, I'll consider them, but I don't think this should be something that should be soloable. There should be enough defenses on the target, whether it be Rebel, Tie, or Neutral, there should be enough of an escort that you still need help. At least, that's my opinion. If I wanted to play a solo game, I'd reinstall X-Wing Alliance and play the single player campaigns. I play MMO's for a reason, and that's to have fun with other people. However, my idea of fun does not involve fighting against those other people, but instead working with them.

I know that if this was moved to a "normal" zone that had the same characteristics of a tough PVE mssion with a random amount of NPCs that are highly aggro and can 1-2 shot you, but you can 1 - 2 shot them based on current server population that there would still be just as much complaining.
No argument there, it's like the saying goes, "You can't please all of the people, all of the time." No matter what happens, there will always be complaints. I disagree, however, as to what the core of the complaints are here. If you are a factioned Rebel or Imperial, then by all means, PVP is your game, and to have to PVP in space is acceptable. I, however, am Neutral on the ground, and have chosen to be neutral for the very reason that it makes PVP (Duels) optional for me. I do duel from time to time, with friends and PA Members that I trust, and have fun doing it. But full on PVP is not my style, and Forced PVP is definitely not my style. If this game was a PVP only game, that did not have the OPTION of participating in PVP, I wouldn't be playing it.

I think that most of the PVE people are just waving the banner of the "evil griefers" to get others on their side so that the Devs will cave and move it out of Kessel.
As you said, you *think* that is the case. However, as I said in a previous post, I had first hand experience with being denied the ability to get my Master Title due to the "evil griefers" attacking me and preventing me from completing it. So now you have a choice of believing me, which means accepting that this part of the argument is not valid, or you can choose to not believe me. However, whether you believe me or not has no bearing on *my* points, and like it or not, they will continue to be made until either these threads are locked, or the dev's respond one way or another. The fact remains, however, that this topic has been an issue of discussion since Beta, and will continue to be an issue of discussion until something is done about it. If the dev's make an official announcement supporting your point, I'll stop posting on the issue. I won't be happy with it, but I'll concede the issue. However, they haven't done such, and to assume that the silence means it's a closed issue is foolishness.

I also think that if enough people get involved in true pvp, that the number of griefers drops dramatically. They are generally too busy defending themselves from people like me that have a problem with them camping spawn points, than having fun whacking people that are trying to ignore them (a silly thing to do in a PVP zone, but whatever) I'm not looking to convert the whole of SWG, that's just silly. But I think that there are a lot more people like me that will accept this and let it grow as it should rather than just say it has to be moved.
Well, glad to know you take the time to smack down the griefers. If there were more people like you camping the campers and allowing those of us who don't wish to PVP to complete our missions, this might well be a moot point. But the problem is, you are in the minority, speaking from experience. (a silly thing to do in a PVP zone, but whatever) Um.. that's the whole point!! It shouldn't BE in the PVP Zone. At the VERY LEAST it shouldn't be in the PVP zone for Neutral factioned players. And yes, CorSec "Supports" the rebellion, while the RSF "Supports" the Empire. However, they are still neutral factioned. The Smugglers Alliance from Tatooine doesn't support EITHER Faction, by the way. (Someone else posted up saying "There's no such thing as 'neutral' in space." Wanted to clarify that I disagree.)

I am still firmly convinced that with proper planning and execution that accomplishing this mission will always be possible.
And I am still firmly convinced from my own experiences in Beta that yes, it can be done, given the right circumstances (Not enough griefers on, and at the same time, enough friends on), but that's not the point. The issue here is choice. If I want to get Master Pilot, I have NO CHOICE but to risk engaging in PVP. That is not a fair choice. An EXTREME example would be the following: (And I emphasize that this is extreme, though not so much to some trully hardcore anti-pvp folx.)
"I've got $1Million dollars here, that you can choose to take. HOWEVER, in order to take it, you have to take this revolver with 3 bullets and 3 empty chambers, spin the cylinder, and then point it to your head and pull the trigger. If you live, you can have the money. What's your choice?"

Not much of a choice, is it?

Sorry, this has turned more into a novel than I planned.. so I'll stop here for now.