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Thread: Forced PVP and Griefing Ganking Teams
Slarus
Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:20 pm
#66
I find it hypocritical of many role players to whine about how un-star warsy this game is, and then turn around and slaughter Imperial/Rebel npcs and then expect Imperial/Rebel players to not be able to step in and enforce/defy the law. Oh no! I want to roleplay....but only if it doesnt involve me getting killed! Hah.
Interesting point except for one thing this is a game, given a day or two I could find several RP fupaux that are insane and silly, but if you have consentual PvP then sadly this will happen if you have total PvP, then the game will lose half the subscribers.
I'd love to see PvP servers so you and Juss can play there with the hardcore PvPers and everyone else can play PvE and have fun there way, but if your gonna make PvP consentual it needs to be consentual across the board 1 of 18 missions on 3 of 35 professions just doesn't make sense and no one has proven it does, they just tell us a few talking points but nothing that proves it belongs. PvP as a challenge can easily be debated, I can kill 5 times the PCs as NPCs so PvP is the challenge, well only if they wait at zone in, camp the vettes and you don't see em then it's just a surprise not a challenge.
Phazorn
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:42 pm
#67
this is one reason i refused to beta test. they dont frikin care
Cutedge
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:55 pm
#68
I was pro-pvp. I wanted the chance for good imperial vs rebel combat.
Tonight I went on a master mission with some people. 15 of us, to be exact. And we were kept from completing much of anything by 4 Imperial Aces.
I'm torn back and forth on whether to say it's because of PVP or just the way PVP is now. On one hand, if PVP had a damage reduction then it would be manageable. Have i posted my opinion about this in this thread yet?I suppose I could go back and look, but i'm lazy. Anyway, a damage reduction so fighting players would be achallenge like fighting the npcswould make the game much better. It might even make people who are against pvp want to pvp if they realize that it's fun.
Then there's the realization. If you make it harder to kill other players,they'll just get a larger group to grief you. That's right, grief. Not PVP. Not fight. Grief.People aren't going after the star destroyer and/or protecting it. Go look for the threads about how people are soloing it to see the proof of that. Instead, they're in Kessel going after people who are doing the mission. In fact, people are waiting at the places where you get the mission to find out when to come. They did this to us tonight. We saw them and when they saw us they launched. You might say it's roleplaying. You might say that it's the Empire keeping the rebellion from getting ace pilots (a good idea, i suppose). However, it's making a mission that's already hard (taking out two gunboats and a corvette) and making it impossible. It's just stupid.
So, even though I'd like to PVP and see squads running around and interesting combat, I'm going to have to put my vote on somehow taking the master mission out of kessel, because at this point and every foreseeable point in the future, it's nothing but frustrating.
TheSatyr01
Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:15 am
#69
Two things.
1)If so many people are pvping like the pvpers say,then why is it that the pvpers have to have pvers to kill too? Seems there is something wrong with the pvpers claims.
2)All this garbage about pvers being whiners and crybabies has to stop...or do pvpers really have such poor memories? Who do you think it was that had a fit when the devs said that JTL would come out before the combat upgrade would? Who do you think did that e-mail campaign in an attempt to get their way? It was primarily the pvpers.(Funny how nearly everyone in the forums that claimed to have sent off e-mails were pvp players.). Try looking at yourself in the mirror next time you call someone a whiner.
1)If so many people are pvping like the pvpers say,then why is it that the pvpers have to have pvers to kill too? Seems there is something wrong with the pvpers claims.
2)All this garbage about pvers being whiners and crybabies has to stop...or do pvpers really have such poor memories? Who do you think it was that had a fit when the devs said that JTL would come out before the combat upgrade would? Who do you think did that e-mail campaign in an attempt to get their way? It was primarily the pvpers.(Funny how nearly everyone in the forums that claimed to have sent off e-mails were pvp players.). Try looking at yourself in the mirror next time you call someone a whiner.
lnflux
Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:18 am
#70
i think they should leave pvp with masters. theres no excuse for u to pvp when u get to the highest u can get. but i think pvp is a great addition to jtl. one of the main reasons why i got it in the first place.
jassi007
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:25 am
#71
Uther27 wrote:
RamaDragonStar wrote:Well it finally happened. On Chilastra Server the other day a bunch of players at 4444 were doing thier first master mission and were killed outright by over 12-15 Overt Master Pilots. Even when asked nicely to allow them to do the missions these overt master pilots got hostile and said some things not-printable here in this forum. Even CS refused ingame to stop the griefing.As usual you devs really screwed up big time with this. How in the heck can players make master pilots when other master pilots are killing them and preventing mission completion?Forced PVP is a bad idea. (I personally do not like forced PVP, and only reason I stayed with SWG was for JTLS, but may cancel account and I know there are hundreds of players who may do the same if the griefing is not stopped).Several possible solutions.#1: Make it so that only Master Pilots can do PVP with other Master Pilots#2: Have the option for players who do not want to PVP at all, allow Coverts or Neutrals into Kessel/Deepspace.#3: The 75% PVP damage reduction that is in the ground game during PVP should be applied to space (Kessel/Deepspace)Thx.
Two questions for you... how many players is a "bunch"? And why didn't you kill them first? It is a PVP free zone after all.
perhaps they didn't kill them first because they were engaged with a capital ship, 2 gun boat escorts and a fighter wing escort? The master mission is kinda busy you know, throwing an additional 15 aggressive players in it makes it nothing short of insane.
DingoBoi
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:26 am
#72
Vegi wrote:
If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to advance from 4/4/4/4 to master. And if you must, try getting a larger group of your own to take them out.
you sir, are a retard. In case you forgot, this is an rpg... many of us want to do pve combat with our friends on multiplayer ships. I could see a case for making imp/rebels have it tough, but not neutrals who want no friggin part.
Plus it's inherently unfair to all but the handful that were there first.. You know the type, the power-grinder griefer... oh yay!
The only people who support this are griefers.
ArianSix
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:33 am
#73
I think the master mission should be moved out of Kessel. People say to take your time and enjoy levelling your profession, but... the real reason I rushed to master was so I could become one before Kessel was completely chock full of griefers and becoming an ace is no longer a possibility.
On a side, I disagree with the 75% damage reduction. Before flaming me hear me out... On the ground PvP was about who had the best weapons, the best armor, the best buffs, and the best macro attached to the F10 key. You fought, you spammed, and in same cases you were lucky if your opponent was dead 15 minutes later.
In space, none of this material stuff matters. PvP is about who manages to outsmart and outwhit the other player. One bad move and you're spacedust. It's all about action and reflexes, with a much lesser degree of reliance on equipment.
For the record, I'm not a griefer and yes I have been griefed. When I did my master mission (for the 3rd time) some Rebel griefers were actually hiding under the corvette waiting for us. They destroyed our entire team while we were engaging the NPC fighter escort... and yes, it sucked. But knowing they were there on the return, it was a fun fight destroying all of them and sending them to griefer limbo.
The point is that PvP seems to be a lot more exciting in space now. Everyone in space has a chance and the chance of failure is high. This makes you think twice about attacking someone because while your target may be in trouble, he could have a friend right on your tail ready to take you out with the same amount of ease.
Before passing judgment and nerfing space PvP to suck like ground PvP, give it a chance.
Don't let this experience with a bunch of loser griefers ruin your view of the game. In all reality, you'd still be dead with a 75% reduction because they would have all the time in the world to get optimum placement on you before firing the first volleys (not that you can tell the difference between a NPC shooting at you or a PC shooting at you anyways with all the stuff going on).
-- A6
Message Edited by ArianSix on 11-08-2004 12:35 PM
Getoc
Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:47 am
#74
At least for privateers/freelancers the last mission should be moved outa the kessel because if they want pvp they should have joined a faction .Non factionpilots got a right to be kept outa pvp .
/sign
BooshkaUK
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:09 am
#75
How about 2 kessels, one PvP, one Not. Choose before you enter, then if you go into the PvP one and get one shoted you have no one to blame and SOE will keep all happy.
ArianSix
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:00 am
#76
FredP wrote:
I am anAce and I camp the corvette for PvP regularly. It's boring most of the time because no one is there.
Were you in the Reb gank group that was hiding underour Corvette Saturday on Bloodfin?
If so, I'm glad I blew you all up.
-- A6
MusicManZarick
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:19 am
#77
Juusman wrote:Ummm.. maybe SOE doesn't like how they everyone running around with master this and master that, and have thus decided to make things different for the pilot profession which is a COMBAT PROFESSION. Maybe they realize that they cannot make a very difficult AI and so it's easier to pit humans against real humans, and whoever manages to complete the mission should really be worthy of the title "ace".Quit with the "forced PvP" crap. You're forced to PvP when you kill a faction NPC and some overt player comes along and kills you. Same thing really.
Pure brilliance.. except you seem to be ignoring the issue here sparky, so let's clarify. I'm a Neutral player on the ground. Not factioned. I don't kill faction NPC's, nor do I get TEF's, because I made a choice to avoid the GCW and the PVP crap. Star Wars Galaxies is NOT a PVP game. It is a game that has PVP in it. There is a huge difference between the two. By your logic, NO Master Title should be available without PVP. That's funny, how many players was the shipwright who built your ship forced to kill before he hit Master? And if he's not Master yet, ask him how many players he'll be FORCED to fight before he can? What? Shipwright isn't a combat profession so that 'negates' my point? Fine, how many players was I forced to kill to make Master TKA? None, zero, zilch, nada. Pilot should be no different. There is NO level of "player skill" involved in sitting at the Hyerpspace Waypoint and blasting people as soon as their ship shows up, killing them before they load in. It's ironic how you "hardcore" players whined and cried about not being set covert for a brief time when you took a shuttle, because people killed you at the starport before you could fully load, yet you think it's perfectly acceptable for people trying to Master Pilot to experience the same crap?
It's amusing how people think it's ok for something they whined about when it hurt them, now that it doesn't.
Uther27
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:25 am
#78
No one thinks it is acceptable to have load killing be a possibility. I think that having the master missions in a PVP zone is fine. Keep it there, and it will only get better. Think of ways around it, adapt, overcome. The example of the couple of people waiting at the point where you get the mission to launch. Counteract it by already having the rest of your group sitting there in Kessel waiting to load kill them or keep them busy. There are ways around everything, even this.
Please don't be so narrow-minded in your thinking that you cannot accept a new challenge. This is especially true of an experience that is a bit outside of your normal playing. That is the real reason for these types of games and why the Devs made the decision to put it into Kessel to begin with. To grow in your abilities, both physically and emotionally, and work with others to overcome obstacles.