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Thread: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.
Slarus
Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:52 pm
#53
It IS consensual, no one is forcing you to be a master pilot.
As to wanting the best stuff, well, thatschoice you make, to me, it ruins the game to have Jedi, Master any class, and so on running around all willy nilly, and not have any real work done to make it that far.
Grinding is not a way that the master part of any class should be reached. It should require either an incredibly difficult quest, one that is changed on a very regular basis, so that it is something memorable, or a PVP thing, something that will not make it common.
talking points from a PvPer:
1. PvP is a challenge
2. PvP is fun
3. No one will camp or gank, they will be too busy.
4. Ace pilot should have to be the best (That is assuming that PvP is a mark of success).
5. Shut up that's why.
6. Quit whinning and just play it our way.
7. MMOs are about community, and blowing each other up is community. (My favorite)
8. You should have to group anyway. (Like someone could solo this mission anyway, maybe this is my favorite).
9. You don't have to Master pilot.
so your number 9 ok, well.
You want to drive a Mustang, but need a drivers licence. You take you written and driving test pass both, they give you the licence and keys to a Pinto and tell you that is what your driving. You dont have to get a drivers licence. So by choosing to drive your choosing to drive a Pinto (Your logic), your not forced to drive a Pinto are you?
Slarus
Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:53 pm
#54
No one is forcing you to be MP. You want to be one, you accept the consequences.
talking points from a PvPer:
1. PvP is a challenge
2. PvP is fun
3. No one will camp or gank, they will be too busy.
4. Ace pilot should have to be the best (That is assuming that PvP is a mark of success).
5. Shut up that's why.
6. Quit whinning and just play it our way.
7. MMOs are about community, and blowing each other up is community. (My favorite)
8. You should have to group anyway. (Like someone could solo this mission anyway, maybe this is my favorite).
9. You don't have to Master pilot.
so your number 9 ok.
Baalzvuv
Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:59 pm
#55
<edit> Just to add a point - I am not a PVPer. I am not a MP, nor even close to being a master in any class. I do, however, firmly beleive in limiting the mastery of anyclass as much as possible.
Slarus wrote:
It IS consensual, no one is forcing you to be a master pilot.
As to wanting the best stuff, well, thatschoice you make, to me, it ruins the game to have Jedi, Master any class, and so on running around all willy nilly, and not have any real work done to make it that far.
Grinding is not a way that the master part of any class should be reached. It should require either an incredibly difficult quest, one that is changed on a very regular basis, so that it is something memorable, or a PVP thing, something that will not make it common.
talking points from a PvPer:
1. PvP is a challenge
2. PvP is fun
3. No one will camp or gank, they will be too busy.
4. Ace pilot should have to be the best (That is assuming that PvP is a mark of success).
5. Shut up that's why.
6. Quit whinning and just play it our way.
7. MMOs are about community, and blowing each other up is community. (My favorite)
8. You should have to group anyway. (Like someone could solo this mission anyway, maybe this is my favorite).
9. You don't have to Master pilot.
so your number 9 ok, well.
You want to drive a Mustang, but need a drivers licence. You take you written and driving test pass both, they give you the licence and keys to a Pinto and tell you that is what your driving. You dont have to get a drivers licence. So by choosing to drive your choosing to drive a Pinto (Your logic), your not forced to drive a Pinto are you?
Nope your analogy is incorrect IMO. Look at it this way. I have the drivers license, and I want a BMW. Assuming I am not a rich mfer, I can either: A) go the safe route, and not buy the BMW. Or B) take a risk and try to get the BMW.
You can do almost anything in the game except that final mission. There is nothing else after that, so the issue is - I want to be a master pilot, and I want those cool ships. Buying the game does not entitle you, me, or anyone to be a master anything, just like it didn't entitle anyone to be a jedi.
You want to be a Master Pilot, no problem, it's not impossible. The current Hyperspace camping issue is a problem, I agree. But moving the mission is not the way to fix it. Putting in a covert timer is a much better way.
Message Edited by Baalzvuv on 11-07-2004 01:01 AM
sirsri
Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:06 pm
#57
having done the corvette 3 times now, its soloable if you're not all that good/confident/lucky in loot maybe 3 (my guildmate soloed one, I did it with 2 people 3 people and like 8 today, 8 = way overkill). If anything grinding 7.5 million xp is WAY harder than the corvette.
The PvP in kessel goes like this. You find out where people you can kill hyperspace in. Wait there and kill them before they can shoot you. All kills in space are one shot kills.
Rather that ditching the corvette as a path to progress, put real content in kessel. Break it up into an empire side and rebel side basically doing battle, the corvette spawns every little while. You don't need PvP to make this zone interesting or challenging. If anything PvP merely detracts from the expereince because there is no reason to go to kessel except for the two master missions (first one is kill 30 enemy npc's its easy), or to grief people trying to do their master mission.
Granted i orginially thought you know... 3 corvettes in a no PvP zone, or 1 Corvette in a PvP zone, but after flying around in kessel and doing the corvette a couple of times (plus more failed attempts), its clear that the PvP in kessel can only be used to grief people, and nothing else.
The PvP in kessel goes like this. You find out where people you can kill hyperspace in. Wait there and kill them before they can shoot you. All kills in space are one shot kills.
Rather that ditching the corvette as a path to progress, put real content in kessel. Break it up into an empire side and rebel side basically doing battle, the corvette spawns every little while. You don't need PvP to make this zone interesting or challenging. If anything PvP merely detracts from the expereince because there is no reason to go to kessel except for the two master missions (first one is kill 30 enemy npc's its easy), or to grief people trying to do their master mission.
Granted i orginially thought you know... 3 corvettes in a no PvP zone, or 1 Corvette in a PvP zone, but after flying around in kessel and doing the corvette a couple of times (plus more failed attempts), its clear that the PvP in kessel can only be used to grief people, and nothing else.
Vicotnik
Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:27 pm
#58
The text marked in yellow pretty much sums up Deep space. Though, don't expect people to go there instead of Kessel for PVP. The prestige cost is just too high for one-shot kills combat,
sirsri wrote:
Rather that ditching the corvette as a path to progress, put real content in kessel. Break it up into an empire side and rebel side basically doing battle, the corvette spawns every little while. You don't need PvP to make this zone interesting or challenging. If anything PvP merely detracts from the expereince because there is no reason to go to kessel except for the two master missions (first one is kill 30 enemy npc's its easy), or to grief people trying to do their master mission.
sirsri
Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:30 pm
#59
Exactly. One that is PvP one that isn't would be cool, (they don't have to be identical just similar theme). People who want to PvP should have somewhere to play, people who don't should also have somewhere to play.
Juusman
Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:16 pm
#60
sirsri wrote:
Exactly. One that is PvP one that isn't would be cool, (they don't have to be identical just similar theme). People who want to PvP should have somewhere to play, people who don't should also have somewhere to play.
It's not about choice. It's about bringing some balance to the number of people mastering pilot. Having master pilot in the PvP zone will make it very difficult, and more difficult over time as more people master. Not impossible given a certain level of organization.
What does this do?
1. It will bring balance to the system. Rather than being top heavy, where everyone is running around with a master pilot, you will have some people who are really good 4444, and a fewer number that are the best.
2. It encourages community and group co-operation. As time goes by, and more people become master, it will be harder and harder to get your master. It willcertainly be a necessity to group up with other people to get this mission done. As a result, you will have whole group going into kessel to take control of it for a period of timeto get their missions done. I can foresee not only 1 group.. but many many groups working together to get missions done. In my mind, this will get people out of "solo mode" and back into "team play".
Slarus
Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:31 pm
#61
It's not about choice. It's about bringing some balance to the number of people mastering pilot. Having master pilot in the PvP zone will make it very difficult, and more difficult over time as more people master. Not impossible given a certain level of organization.
Master Pilot is not, nor is it intended to be rare, this is a theory to justify your thoughts and the guy who started this who believes there should be 5 MASTERS per server per profession 175 Master per server. The Firespray is rare, Master pilot is not, show me the page number that even implies Master Pilot is rare
What does this do?
1. It will bring balance to the system. Rather than being top heavy, where everyone is running around with a master pilot, you will have some people who are really good 4444, and a fewer number that are the best.
No it will fustrate people who paid the same $30 as those who are granted Master, loot quotas work Profession quotas never do and NO GAME does it, this is thoery based on fabricated fantasy of elitism.
2. It encourages community and group co-operation. As time goes by, and more people become master, it will be harder and harder to get your master. It willcertainly be a necessity to group up with other people to get this mission done. As a result, you will have whole group going into kessel to take control of it for a period of timeto get their missions done. I can foresee not only 1 group.. but many many groups working together to get missions done. In my mind, this will get people out of "solo mode" and back into "team play".
The Mission is group based regardless of PvP so this is just spin.
In short there is no reason to force PvP on the Master Mission, there is no proof or intent to limit Masters of any profession. The PvP was just set up to alter the normal play of the previous missions, but as we can clearly see it was a mistake. The only reason to be in favor of PvP for EVERY Master mission is you want to grief and work against anyone getting something YOU deem as rare but NO ONE else does.
atytula
Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:54 pm
#62
I just posted something similar as a reply to another post. I would like to see those that do the mission get a true master title like "Rebel Pilot Top Ace" and those that just grind the xp or do a simpler misison get get "Rebel Pilot Ace" or something like that. Imps and Neutrals get their equivalent too. At any time, if somone who is a master pilot, wants to go for the master mission, he can, but he would have to give up master pilot anddo mission (and hence get the title).
Ventuviper
Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:28 pm
#63
Nice post shortimer, that sums it up for most people. And yes to get Ace in real life you need 5 confirmed enemy kills. If proton torpedoes were in the game like XvT then taking to corvette would not be as big of a problem, but right now you can launch 20 space bombs (which in most other games I believe 10 would take out a space station, but could be shot down) and it would do no damage at all. I attacked the corvette with really nice space bombs and I attacked a turret. The turret was still operational after the attack (95%) and the shields only went down 3% overall. That and the fact that 3/4 of my team just got killed by a group of PvPers who knew we were attacking the corvette makes this mission too damn difficult right now. I believe that everyone should have the chance to become a Master pilot without having to PvP.
Juusman
Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:46 am
#64
Baalzvuv wrote:
Just to add a point - I am not a PVPer. I am not a MP, nor even close to being a master in any class. I do, however, firmly beleive in limiting the mastery of anyclass as much as possible.
Slarus wrote:
It IS consensual, no one is forcing you to be a master pilot.
As to wanting the best stuff, well, thatschoice you make, to me, it ruins the game to have Jedi, Master any class, and so on running around all willy nilly, and not have any real work done to make it that far.
Grinding is not a way that the master part of any class should be reached. It should require either an incredibly difficult quest, one that is changed on a very regular basis, so that it is something memorable, or a PVP thing, something that will not make it common.
talking points from a PvPer:
1. PvP is a challenge
2. PvP is fun
3. No one will camp or gank, they will be too busy.
4. Ace pilot should have to be the best (That is assuming that PvP is a mark of success).
5. Shut up that's why.
6. Quit whinning and just play it our way.
7. MMOs are about community, and blowing each other up is community. (My favorite)
8. You should have to group anyway. (Like someone could solo this mission anyway, maybe this is my favorite).
9. You don't have to Master pilot.
so your number 9 ok, well.
You want to drive a Mustang, but need a drivers licence. You take you written and driving test pass both, they give you the licence and keys to a Pinto and tell you that is what your driving. You dont have to get a drivers licence. So by choosing to drive your choosing to drive a Pinto (Your logic), your not forced to drive a Pinto are you?
Nope your analogy is incorrect IMO. Look at it this way. I have the drivers license, and I want a BMW. Assuming I am not a rich mfer, I can either: A) go the safe route, and not buy the BMW. Or B) take a risk and try to get the BMW.
You can do almost anything in the game except that final mission. There is nothing else after that, so the issue is - I want to be a master pilot, and I want those cool ships. Buying the game does not entitle you, me, or anyone to be a master anything, just like it didn't entitle anyone to be a jedi.
You want to be a Master Pilot, no problem, it's not impossible. The current Hyperspace camping issue is a problem, I agree. But moving the mission is not the way to fix it. Putting in a covert timer is a much better way.
Message Edited by Baalzvuv on 11-07-200401:01 AM
EXACTLY..
And quit harping on this SOE policy of consentual PvP. You are agreeing to it by accepting the master mission. No where does SOE say that you are entitled to be a master, or will be able to do everything in this game free of PvP combat. In fact, you could argue that there is precedent for non-consentualPvP play when you are factioned player and attack other factioned NPCs. Ever heard of TEFs? Why don't you guyswhine and complainagainst TEFs? You kill a rebel or imperial NPC you will be TEF'd and a player can come along and kill you. What's the difference? When you accept a faction mission, you are also agreeing to the risk of PvP. Same thing. End of story..
FransisOFassisi
Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:10 am
#65
I only read the first page so forgive me if this has been addressed here...
Once you reach Master Pilot, if you don't want to PVP, what will you do?
Also, it doesn't take a full group of 20 people to knock out the Corvette. From what I have seen and heard, 8 to 10 people can do it fairly easily. And don't say you don't have time to look for people to group with for this mission, because you rpobably have time to stand around on Dant or Dath "looking for a solo group".