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truewildman wrote:

First, I'd like to say, please no flaming in this thread. Let's keep it constructive with relevent ideas to make JTL fun for everyone, as well as maintain the RP aspect we are all here looking for. That being said:

There is quite the controversy going on inhere about the master mission being in Kessel. Seems there are many that think that everyone and their grandma should be able to be master pilot.

However, being an anti-ground PvP myself, I also understand the viewpoint that players should not be forced into PvP. So, I propose this idea:

4444 pilots can do a strictly PvE mission outside of Kessel to become "Master". Master rewards remain the same, including MP ships.

Masters can then take the PvP/PvE mission in Kessel to become "Ace". Ace rewards are perhaps other ships/clothing (probably fighters, as that's what aces do, they fight).

Those that have already Mastered (before this implementation), will then have to fill the required PvP number of kills that give the "Ace" title and rewards.

This will let those who do not wish to PvP be masters, those that wish to PvP prove themselves further, and it fits in with the devs idea of making Ace pilot like jedi - rare and exceptional.

Any fine-tuning or rebuttals are more than welcome. Thanks!!

Message Edited by truewildman on 11-09-2004 12:00 PM

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I agree with this, Should Be a way To work with both Play style crowds. I was thinking a Instanced kessel for the master mission, But this works 2.

I think any system which requires players to pvp in order to gain rewards which are valuable in pve play is going to be eventually drowned in a sea of complaints.

I think the basic premise here is quite good, however I'd be much more comfortable with it if the rewards gained from the proposed pvp 'ace' were only usable in pvp. Sure, there could be new ship rewards for it, but they could only be used in the pvp zones (or even purely in pvp). That would stop those people who want nothing to do with pvp from having to engage in a playstyle they dislike in order to gain the benefits for their preferred playstyle.

The main problem I see with the current system is that the rewards gained from having to pvp are mostly things that non-pvp'ers would want more than pvp'ers. Multiplayer ships, for example, are much more attractive to roleplayers and pve groups than pvp battlers.

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Slarus wrote:

Look this is Star Wars, not Britain. Anyway the title doesn't have to be Ace, if you're going to be stuck on a word.

I'm not stuck on the word, YOU mention it as a distinction not me.

Secondly, just because you can't put yourself in the shoes of the sportsmen, doesn't mean that what they think or feel is less important than your values.

Some value the hierarchical arrangement of rank to ability ratio. If you don't, that's fine. But don't try to make this game cater only to you.

It isn't in now, it wasn't in at all. Sounds like it wasn't even thought of. It is cartering to all, no one asked for a special PvP title till this mission in Kessel was known, and the PvEers asked not to be forced into PvP, then the PvPers tried to make Master Pilot sound magical and tried to FABRICATE it into a PvP title.

Thirdly, and I've said this many times, I am not a PvPer!!! Just because I happen to have the ability to truly empathize, does not label me such.

Now, let's get back to the core discussion here. There are people with values that differ from you and I. And there's only black, or white. There's nothing wrong with making it gray.

Sympathise is more like by giving into fantasy. If this Kessel mission never exsisted as a PvP/PvE mission from day one, you would not be trying to create a special title for PvPers, no one did that during NDA when we all speculated, no one asked before beta, no one asked for this on the ground game for 32 professions. This is a new concept from the smal group that tried to convince people that there should be 5 masters per profession per server for 175 masters per server, it is the invention of elitist trying to get the "Uber" title.

A reasonable answer was and still is do nothing to the master title or rewards, make it a PvE mission with no PvP, and keep Kessel PvP. All who want PvP get it, all who don't get it, all who want MP ships get it. Everyone is happy but elitist who want a special reward if they are even .01% I'd be surprised.

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Looks like you dance very well, as you keep side-stepping my point.

First of all, why do you think the master mission was in Kessel in the first freaking place? So, no, it's NOT a fabrication.

Second of all, you're still close-mindedly trying to say that the PvPer has no rights in this game. Stop it. PvPers have just as much right to play the way they want as much as PvEers. That's whyI suggest a bipartisan proposal.

You really need to suck it up and accept that reality. Again, I'm no PvPer, but I see both sides.

Law Enforcement Chip solves everything. Read my post on this. NUFF SAID

Looks like you dance very well, as you keep side-stepping my point.

First of all, why do you think the master mission was in Kessel in the first freaking place? So, no, it's NOT a fabrication.

Because that is were they kept the Vette spawns, it wasn't for PvP there is no basis for it.

Second of all, you're still close-mindedly trying to say that the PvPer has no rights in this game. Stop it. PvPers have just as much right to play the way they want as much as PvEers. That's whyI suggest a bipartisan proposal.

PvPers have the SAME rights as PvEers, and they now do, they don't get special content, treatment or privledge. No longer are PvEers who had to PvP in order to Master pilot provide special content, they aren't getting special badges, titles, or loot for being PvP and niether is a PvEer it is fair. Kessel should and likely will become a PvP zone again but the fix is because the Devs found it strikingly unfair as is.

You really need to suck it up and accept that reality. Again, I'm no PvPer, but I see both sides.

But you favor one side, the vast minority.

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Taikan wrote:

though I have earned my "Ace" title it does not mean that I am something special. It means that i have some skill at a game and that I had enough friends on at the same time as me to pull it off. With PvP the way it is it takes no skil what so ever to kill someone. I know because i have killed numerous rebel pilots in space. I was not better than they were, I just got the first shot off. Two hit kills is rediculous, especially when they are engaged with NPC's.

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Exactly. Thank you. Five Stars.

A question though, for the Imperials that pulled off the master mission... Did you use Bomber Strike?

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Taikan wrote:

As it stands now if you like PvP go to deep space.

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