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Thread: Petition for PvP
LowbaTherf wrote:
PvP IS optional. Having the master mission in Kessel rewards those players who either like PvP, or those with enough squad mates where they can handle the PvPers.
We had a squad of 15 tier 4 rebels last night and were kept from doing the mission by 4 ace imperial pilots. They specifically came to attack us, and since when they die, they spawn in Endor they can get full repairs and come right back. They literally come back ina minute or two minutes after being killed. In the end, we were able to accomplish nothing.
I'm Pro-PVP, but when the solution to the problem of doing the master mission is "well, wait for a time where there aren't any enemy ships there" (aka, late at night or early in the morning) then you have to admit that there is a problem with the system. I can't get half the server to come protect us from a few enemy ships that can kill all our group members in one shot.
LowbaTherf wrote:
I disagree with you there. If I take a mission from a rebel on the ground, and some imperial rolepayers come by and see me blowing up an Imperial base, they should attack me.
Yes, but thing is, the reason to take those missions on the ground isn't to further your advancement in a profession, they are to get FP. They can also be done in almost complete safety if you don't like the PvP part of factions. I'm factioned, yet never done PvP, you may ask why, well, I'd like to eventually sell FP as part of being a smuggler. However, factioned or not, there's no one on the ground who can keep me from getting a standard elite profession, and no reason whatsoever for that to be different in space.
Jedis are forced into PvP as they get on terminals (again, amazing none has brought this up), yet due to the extreme boring grind part, you'll hardly see any complain about this, mainly because so few end up going "real" jedi for anything but the extra character slot. Pilot is in my book quite different, the sole reason I bought JtL, shipwright, well, I'm not a 100% crafter, but flying around, maybe picking up friends in my multipasenger "super shuttle", that's what it's about. If this part gets deprived of me by a stupid system, I lose out, something I doubt anyone likes. It's simple, there's no lose for moving master missions away from Kessel, well, besides those already mastered loosing easy targets.
hrmpf2 wrote:
LowbaTherf wrote:
I disagree with you there. If I take a mission from a rebel on the ground, and some imperial rolepayers come by and see me blowing up an Imperial base, they should attack me.
Yes, but thing is, the reason to take those missions on the ground isn't to further your advancement in a profession, they are to get FP. They can also be done in almost complete safety if you don't like the PvP part of factions. I'm factioned, yet never done PvP, you may ask why, well, I'd like to eventually sell FP as part of being a smuggler. However, factioned or not, there's no one on the ground who can keep me from getting a standard elite profession, and no reason whatsoever for that to be different in space.
Jedis are forced into PvP as they get on terminals (again, amazing none has brought this up), yet due to the extreme boring grind part, you'll hardly see any complain about this, mainly because so few end up going "real" jedi for anything but the extra character slot. Pilot is in my book quite different, the sole reason I bought JtL, shipwright, well, I'm not a 100% crafter, but flying around, maybe picking up friends in my multipasenger "super shuttle", that's what it's about. If this part gets deprived of me by a stupid system, I lose out, something I doubt anyone likes. It's simple, there's no lose for moving master missions away from Kessel, well, besides those already mastered loosing easy targets.
you still get a mp ship as a veteran reward, and Jedi, like becoming master, is a choice made by the player. You decide if the risk outweighs the reward, and then decide whether you become Jedi or master pilot.
MillaMerani wrote:
LowbaTherf wrote:
PvP IS optional.
Really? Where can I turn it off. Honestly I do not find any fun in running a gauntlet between PKers who can kill you with 2 or 3 well-placed shots (or 1 shot), ruining hours of preparation.
You can turn it off by not going into Kessel. Honestly, maybe we should change the damage ratio instead of scrapping the whole thing.
Having the master mission in Kessel rewards those players who either like PvP, or those with enough squad mates where they can handle the PvPers. I do not propose forcing everyone to PvP, I just feel that it is good that there is a little variety now.
I agree that grouping should be rewarded (it is a reward in itself as it makes your life easier) but why on earth should PvPers rewarded to the detriment of PvEers? This expansion was designed for everybody, I did not see in the ads that JTL was designed to reward PvP-ers. If they are willing to develop an expansion that rewards PvPers, okay, that's fine, they should have their own kind of fun, because I do not want to deny them their fun.
You know, when I bought the expansion pack, it didn't say that PvPers would NOT be rewarded. I see no problem rewarding them by letting them have an easier time getting master, because they are going to be better PvPers.
Message Edited by MillaMerani on 11-09-2004 06:12 PM
GreatWarrior wrote:
Xconxors wrote:
Oh please.... No more with the "PvP insures the master box is challenging" crap.. Theres nothing challenging about PvP in space.
The 1 or 2 shots needed to kill a ship in PvP insures that skill has little to do with the experience.
I wouldn't mind the forced PvP condition so much if I actually had a chance to flaunt superior twitch skills.
As it stands now- it's a matter of landing that first shot at great distance. Not much skill there....
Sorry PvP'ers- your seriously out-voted on this one. If your wondering why- you can blame the poor behavior of your own community for a lot of the anti-PvP sentiment.We "carebears" have seen too many examples of poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk to give you much in the way of credibility on this issue. You blew it, you have only similar minded allies in the PvP crowd, and that ain't saying much...
Flame on - I can take it
Instead of complaining left and right, log into the game and get a group going. Take the same time it takes for you to comment on these boards, setup a group, go out there and get your mission. Its not that hard.. honestly. If you can take the time to do the work then there isn't a problem. If you can't solo it yourself, you get a group, you plan, you setup equipment and you take action. Its all about organizing what you need to do to prepare. How are you expected to be a pilot ace if you back away from problem conditions?
exactly, how can you be proud to be a Pilot Ace if you cant take the Pressure of Kessel?
Not once did i whine about Kessel yet and i run Vette Missions every day.
The opposing Faction Players who try to attack are the real challenge in it, get a good group going for support of those who have the Ace mission and go out protect them!
The Ground Game is boring enough with everything except DWB beeing able to solo, the Ace mission is one of the very last challenging things in SWG/JTL and it should be hard and it should be in a PvP Zone.
About the Trashtalk you mentiond, well this is the only point i agree, this should not be, but so far i have only seen this from ppl like you who scream imideatly Griefer, Asshats and worse when you shoot down someone in Kessel.
I Salut those of the mature players who think the same way then i and see it as a good challenge which is fun without trashtalk in all Factions.
so fix PvP, don't get rid of it. And btw, I am not a PvPer, I just do not wish the PvP aspect of the master pilot mission to be taken away. And I never called you a "carebear", even though a poster on this thread did, and I am sorry he/she resorted to name calling. I know of the poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk, as I have been ganked while an overt rebel on the ground. It was a minor setback, althoughI did need a new landspeeder. So if the real problem is the griefers, complain about the griefers, and figure out ways to stop them, not the legitimate PvPers. In a fixed system, I invision a rebel (or imperial, or nuetral with a declaration) group heading out to Kessel and then asking other rebels(or imperial, or nuetral with a declaration) to provide cover for them. Then when the enemies come, the PvP shield will protect the people on the mission. This way, it provides content for the PvPers, and adds danger and excitement for the PvEers. I am not entirely happy with how neutral players are handled and would be open to other suggestions for them, but I believe this to be ideal for rebel vs. imperial.
Xconxors wrote:
Oh please.... No more with the "PvP insures the master box is challenging" crap.. Theres nothing challenging about PvP in space.
The 1 or 2 shots needed to kill a ship in PvP insures that skill has little to do with the experience.
I wouldn't mind the forced PvP condition so much if I actually had a chance to flaunt superior twitch skills.
As it stands now- it's a matter of landing that first shot at great distance. Not much skill there....
Sorry PvP'ers- your seriously out-voted on this one. If your wondering why- you can blame the poor behavior of your own community for a lot of the anti-PvP sentiment.We "carebears" have seen too many examples of poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk to give you much in the way of credibility on this issue. You blew it, you have only similar minded allies in the PvP crowd, and that ain't saying much...
Flame on - I can take it
Slarus wrote:
PvP IS optional. Having the master mission in Kessel rewards those players who either like PvP, or those with enough squad mates where they can handle the PvPers. I do not propose forcing everyone to PvP, I just feel that it is good that there is a little variety now. Now there is a master level combat professionyou can never obtain strictly through grinding. And the farther away it is from grinding the happier I am. Note, however, I do not propose that the ground professions should mirror this. I feel that there should be uniqueness present in all the professions, so that being a pistoleer is different from being a rifleman. You should feel different, and have done different things to get here.
It's mission based advancment, it's already different from 33 other professions. 33 Profession don't have any mission based advancement so we already have a difference.
and the more differences the better.
Fusch69 wrote:
GreatWarrior wrote:
Xconxors wrote:
Oh please.... No more with the "PvP insures the master box is challenging" crap.. Theres nothing challenging about PvP in space.
The 1 or 2 shots needed to kill a ship in PvP insures that skill has little to do with the experience.
I wouldn't mind the forced PvP condition so much if I actually had a chance to flaunt superior twitch skills.
As it stands now- it's a matter of landing that first shot at great distance. Not much skill there....
Sorry PvP'ers- your seriously out-voted on this one. If your wondering why- you can blame the poor behavior of your own community for a lot of the anti-PvP sentiment.We "carebears" have seen too many examples of poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk to give you much in the way of credibility on this issue. You blew it, you have only similar minded allies in the PvP crowd, and that ain't saying much...
Flame on - I can take it
Instead of complaining left and right, log into the game and get a group going. Take the same time it takes for you to comment on these boards, setup a group, go out there and get your mission. Its not that hard.. honestly. If you can take the time to do the work then there isn't a problem. If you can't solo it yourself, you get a group, you plan, you setup equipment and you take action. Its all about organizing what you need to do to prepare. How are you expected to be a pilot ace if you back away from problem conditions?
exactly, how can you be proud to be a Pilot Ace if you cant take the Pressure of Kessel?
Not once did i whine about Kessel yet and i run Vette Missions every day.
The opposing Faction Players who try to attack are the real challenge in it, get a good group going for support of those who have the Ace mission and go out protect them!
The Ground Game is boring enough with everything except DWB beeing able to solo, the Ace mission is one of the very last challenging things in SWG/JTL and it should be hard and it should be in a PvP Zone.
About the Trashtalk you mentiond, well this is the only point i agree, this should not be, but so far i have only seen this from ppl like you who scream imideatly Griefer, Asshats and worse when you shoot down someone in Kessel.
I Salut those of the mature players who think the same way then i and see it as a good challenge which is fun without trashtalk in all Factions.
LowbaTherf wrote:
I agree that grouping should be rewarded (it is a reward in itself as it makes your life easier) but why on earth should PvPers rewarded to the detriment of PvEers? This expansion was designed for everybody, I did not see in the ads that JTL was designed to reward PvP-ers. If they are willing to develop an expansion that rewards PvPers, okay, that's fine, they should have their own kind of fun, because I do not want to deny them their fun.
You know, when I bought the expansion pack, it didn't say that PvPers would NOT be rewarded. I see no problem rewarding them by letting them have an easier time getting master, because they are going to be better PvPers.
Message Edited by MillaMerani on 11-09-2004 06:12 PM
I think you are still missing my point which is simple. My message was: don't force PvEers do what they don't like. Reward PvPers as you like, but without affecting the PvEer's enjoyment of the game. Many people don't like PvP, either because they lack the skill (or rather the money to buy the uber gear in the ground game) or they just don't like beating up other RL people even in a virtual world. Many people play this game for the pure enjoyment of the genre, and not to be anuber and "I'm better than thou" guy. Flying a ship like an YT-1300 should not bethe privilege of a small group of players who consider themselves 'elite' or whatever. Such essential SW content should be available to all without sacrificing the "consentual PvP" principle of the game.
Xconxors wrote:
Fusch69 wrote:
GreatWarrior wrote:
Xconxors wrote:
Oh please.... No more with the "PvP insures the master box is challenging" crap.. Theres nothing challenging about PvP in space.
The 1 or 2 shots needed to kill a ship in PvP insures that skill has little to do with the experience.
I wouldn't mind the forced PvP condition so much if I actually had a chance to flaunt superior twitch skills.
As it stands now- it's a matter of landing that first shot at great distance. Not much skill there....
Sorry PvP'ers- your seriously out-voted on this one. If your wondering why- you can blame the poor behavior of your own community for a lot of the anti-PvP sentiment.We "carebears" have seen too many examples of poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk to give you much in the way of credibility on this issue. You blew it, you have only similar minded allies in the PvP crowd, and that ain't saying much...
Flame on - I can take it
Instead of complaining left and right, log into the game and get a group going. Take the same time it takes for you to comment on these boards, setup a group, go out there and get your mission. Its not that hard.. honestly. If you can take the time to do the work then there isn't a problem. If you can't solo it yourself, you get a group, you plan, you setup equipment and you take action. Its all about organizing what you need to do to prepare. How are you expected to be a pilot ace if you back away from problem conditions?
exactly, how can you be proud to be a Pilot Ace if you cant take the Pressure of Kessel?
Not once did i whine about Kessel yet and i run Vette Missions every day.
The opposing Faction Players who try to attack are the real challenge in it, get a good group going for support of those who have the Ace mission and go out protect them!
The Ground Game is boring enough with everything except DWB beeing able to solo, the Ace mission is one of the very last challenging things in SWG/JTL and it should be hard and it should be in a PvP Zone.
About the Trashtalk you mentiond, well this is the only point i agree, this should not be, but so far i have only seen this from ppl like you who scream imideatly Griefer, Asshats and worse when you shoot down someone in Kessel.
I Salut those of the mature players who think the same way then i and see it as a good challenge which is fun without trashtalk in all Factions.
Funny thing: There's been lots of replies to my post, but no one has addressed the main point I tried to make. What is so challenging about PvP in space?
Another question PvP'ers seem to gloss over is why this issue is so important to them. If the shortage of PvP'ers has anything to do with it- Then please note the second point of my original post..
The Challenge is to Finish your Mission even under the Attack of Enemy Players for example.