Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: Kessel is just a symptom of the developers pov on PvP.
Bzzzz wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Instead of going to a random place just to look for a fight we had a reason to want to fight in Kessel. Some people wanted to get thier master pilot certifications and the opposition wanted to stop that from happening. The one thing that is sorely missing from the ground game, and thatthe PvP comminityhas been complaining about for months and months and months, youhad in space and have taken away. (Now making the Master Level cert the thing to fight over was never smart but it was at least (finally) a reason to fight).
Sorry, the only "purpose" PVPers had here was to "gank" players uninterested in PVP. One community preying on another. In my experience the vast majority of these players also went about this by dubious means, ie camping spawn-points, which further changes the situation from a Competition into a Grief scenario.
So with this established, I'll refer to these PVPers simply as griefers.
And I say that your wrong.
PvE'ers need to lose the whole "gank" mentality thing. The fact is you just can't have human interaction on this scale without meeting some complete idiots and they frequently happen in pve as much as pvp.
Seriously pve wise its just as bad:
- Kryat hunts can take just the same amount of preperation as pvp sessions and can get ruined just as easily by idiots spawn camping, following rangers aboutand using uber weapons to outdamage groups of 10.
- Experienced crafters buying all theexperimentation tapes to stiflenew player breaking into the market.
- Experienced crafters buying all the decent materials on the forums and vendors not because they need them butto stifle newer players.
- Players following other players around poi's not because they want the loot or experience but just to grief the other player.
- Players placing harvesters around the borders of cities to stunt thier growth.
- In space players flying in front of you blocking your shot at your targets, firing on you to put your off or following you round pve poi targets.
And yet you don't see people, on the whole, asking for other peoples playstyles to get nerfed or extreme rules added to them - these are hazards of gaming with other people and to a certain extent you have to accept that. Its like pve grief cannot be talked about in the same breath as pvp grief and frankly that is wrong because it affects you just as badly.In fact pve grief is worse because at least in pvp you have a chance of sending them to the cloner - stopping the cycle of grief without the need to log off for a couple of hours.
Please before starting the whole pvp'ers only want to grief talk remember that its just not true. Its simply that there are idiots everywhere.It effects pve just as much as pvp and its just as bad.
DND_Cas wrote:
Correct - you can still play PvP in the zone. Just hit a Faction Space Station and declare...
You don't understand what you did with the Master Mission with Kessel do you TH?
For the first time in this game you gave PvP a purpose.
Instead of going to a random place just to look for a fight we had a reason to want to fight in Kessel. Some people wanted to get thier master pilot certifications and the opposition wanted to stop that from happening. The one thing that is sorely missing from the ground game, and thatthe PvP comminityhas been complaining about for months and months and months, youhad in space and have taken away. (Now making the Master Level cert the thing to fight over was never smart but it was at least (finally) a reason to fight).
It occurs to me that you, personally,don't understand PvP at all because if you did you never would have written such auninformed answer about the needs and wants of your PvP community.
Let me explain to you want the PvP community wants:
- A purpose
In every other aspect of the game classes andcommunities aredependent on each other for comodities and support - in other words interdependency. Every single community except one - PvP'ers. We take but at no point can we ever give back to the community. For one brief moment PvP'ers finally became part of the larger community - they we're needed -before you shelved them again.
Let me explain to you want the PvP community does not want:
- To have to search endlessly for PvP that has no meaning.
- To have pointless base wars (aka deepspace)
In other words we don't want to hang around starports or oppositely aligned space stations waiting for other PvP'ers to turn up and have a 2 minuite lightfight with them. We would prefer to hang around bases that PvE'ers and crafters wanted protected or fighting opposite faction ships for commodities for our crafters.
If you think things like deepspace make PvP then you are very mistaken. Its the whole "you sunk my battleship" syndrome - i.e. no-one cares. We've nothing invested in it and it'll respawn the next day anyway.
In other words what PvP'ers do not want is to be seperate from the rest of the game whilst PvP'ing.
Until we are a needed commodity we are simply gankers to most hardcore PvE'ers - this is not what we want. When other players need PvP'ers we cease to become simply gankers and starport loiterers and start to become people they want to know and people they need for certain things.
To conclude - please stop seperating PvP from the rest of the game and playstyles. If you want true interdepency in SWG you will give PvP'ers a purpose.
ReddFhive wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Correct - you can still play PvP in the zone. Just hit a Faction Space Station and declare...
You don't understand what you did with the Master Mission with Kessel do you TH?
For the first time in this game you gave PvP a purpose.
Instead of going to a random place just to look for a fight we had a reason to want to fight in Kessel. Some people wanted to get thier master pilot certifications and the opposition wanted to stop that from happening. The one thing that is sorely missing from the ground game, and thatthe PvP comminityhas been complaining about for months and months and months, youhad in space and have taken away. (Now making the Master Level cert the thing to fight over was never smart but it was at least (finally) a reason to fight).
It occurs to me that you, personally,don't understand PvP at all because if you did you never would have written such auninformed answer about the needs and wants of your PvP community.
Let me explain to you want the PvP community wants:
- A purpose
In every other aspect of the game classes andcommunities aredependent on each other for comodities and support - in other words interdependency. Every single community except one - PvP'ers. We take but at no point can we ever give back to the community. For one brief moment PvP'ers finally became part of the larger community - they we're needed -before you shelved them again.
Let me explain to you want the PvP community does not want:
- To have to search endlessly for PvP that has no meaning.
- To have pointless base wars (aka deepspace)
In other words we don't want to hang around starports or oppositely aligned space stations waiting for other PvP'ers to turn up and have a 2 minuite lightfight with them. We would prefer to hang around bases that PvE'ers and crafters wanted protected or fighting opposite faction ships for commodities for our crafters.
If you think things like deepspace make PvP then you are very mistaken. Its the whole "you sunk my battleship" syndrome - i.e. no-one cares. We've nothing invested in it and it'll respawn the next day anyway.
In other words what PvP'ers do not want is to be seperate from the rest of the game whilst PvP'ing.
Until we are a needed commodity we are simply gankers to most hardcore PvE'ers - this is not what we want. When other players need PvP'ers we cease to become simply gankers and starport loiterers and start to become people they want to know and people they need for certain things.
To conclude - please stop seperating PvP from the rest of the game and playstyles. If you want true interdepency in SWG you will give PvP'ers a purpose.
I have to disagree.
You make it sound like you're speaking for the whole community.
However, those are not my views.
To be at the mercy of this kind of player base to Master a skill is rediculious, and I Love to PvP....when I choose.
I refer the honourable gentleman to the third paragraph where I stated:
"(Now making the Master Level cert the thing to fight over was never smart but it was at least (finally) a reason to fight)."
The point of the thread is not how it was done in regards to kessel but how it is a symptom of how the developers approach pvp generally.