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Thread: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.
REFREN wrote:
Juusman wrote:
Allowing players to simply grind out the xp will devalue the rewards for doing it "the hard" way. Who cares about the ace pilot jacket? You know and I know, that themain reason people want to get master pilot is to get the cool ships. So great.. everyone can just grind out 7.5 mill xp in a week, if that, and everyone is flying around in YT 1300s, Nova Couriers, and Decimators.
I say keep the master pilot rare, or at least very very hard to get... and no I'm not a master pilot; but I'm helping people do their missions, and they will help me do mine. If you get a decent group together the missions become easier.
You won't get master pilot...im gonna grief you till you CANCEL your account!
LOL.. Oh noooo.. SOE, I'm being griefed!!! Take the master mission out of Kessel!
You're a dumba$$ man..
Cuality wrote:
Baalzvuv wrote:
This just isn't getting through, is it? You think you deserve to be a Master anyclass, I think there should be very few of any masters of anyclass. I am not saying it should be me, in fact I doubt I ever will be a master at any given class. See, I am not saying *I* should be, I am saying almost *NO ONE* should be. NOT ME, ok?
I have already sacrificed my view, since there are Master everything everywhere, and whether I become a master, or not, will not change that.
Maybe now, you will understand what I am saying.
i guess you would prefer a game that you couldn't get to the top of the class? where masters are rare and everyone else is stuck wallowing in the field of the masterless? that would sure make for a fun game!!!
Yup, thats what I would like. Where there are a lot of good high levelled players, and very few who are at the top. And let me say it again - I do not expect for a second to be one of them.
Well, when I play a MMORPG, I want the game to be believable, and having fully half the people I see to be the very best at stuff, makes it look stupid, and cheapens the whole mastery part of it.
Like I said, I doubt this would ever happen, so I have to suffer through the way things are, but having people whining that they can't be master pilot because it's not easy - well, it's just crybaby whining.
Nope your analogy is incorrect IMO. Look at it this way. I have the drivers license, and I want a BMW. Assuming I am not a rich mfer, I can either: A) go the safe route, and not buy the BMW. Or B) take a risk and try to get the BMW.
But see what your using is choice, You choose to get your drivers licence becuase you wanted to drive, choice one. You want to drive a BMW, again you are choosing the car, that is choice. All your points give YOU the power each time. You dont have that in the master mission if you choose to get master you must accept PvP, you don;t get to do the master mission with no PvP, you don't get that choice. you want to drive the BMW you must drive a Pinto first, but not because you can;t buy the BMW, but because the government requires you to drive a Pinto, that is what we see in JTL. You want a Nova, YT or Decimator you have to PvP, yet we will tell you the game is consentual PvP. My anaolgy is absolutly spot on, you can't accept it because it doesn;t fit your #9 world view that choosing to get Master (A RIGHT of the pruchaser) and choosing to PvP are seperate choices.
You can do almost anything in the game except that final mission. There is nothing else after that, so the issue is - I want to be a master pilot, and I want those cool ships. Buying the game does not entitle you, me, or anyone to be a master anything, just like it didn't entitle anyone to be a jedi.
You want to be a Master Pilot, no problem, it's not impossible. The current Hyperspace camping issue is a problem, I agree. But moving the mission is not the way to fix it. Putting in a covert timer is a much better way.
No one said it was immpossible, or wrong or soloable, no one is saying this. What PvEers are saying is they wanted to have the choice to PvP or not, like we were told we had. Hyperspace camping is because PvEers are forced into PvP, a timer isn't going to change that PvEers cannot choose not to PvP. Moving the mission allows PvPers to well PvP with no complaints from PvEers, and allows PvEers to PvE without calling PvPers all griefers, Master is not supposed to be rare, or valuable it is the last skill box ina profession, you are fabricating this rarity concept. Tell me one reason without resorting to this fantasy that Master pilot is the rare and beautiful thing, or the PvP is the ONLY way to challenge EVERY player, why the Master mission being PvE is wrong?
Spoken like someone who actually has no idea how this works. No, you won't see everyone fly around in B-wings and TIE oppressors. Most people will take a TIE advanced or Interceptor over the Oppressor. Most people will take an X- or A-wing over the B-wing. Just because the ships are up there in the masterbox, it doesn't instantly mean that they are the best. And in fact,most of those master box ships are very useless for PVP, which makes it rather more amusing that the gate to get them is a PVP gate.
Baalzvuv wrote:
And to me, having everyone a Master DOES ruin my game. There should not be a lot of B-wings, Tie whatevers, or any of the high level craft. There should not be a lot of BH's that are just as good as Bobba Fett, pilots as good as Han Solo, and so on. But since thats what you want - in this case, it's fine to ruin someone elses game, since it isn't yours, huh?
Slarus wrote:
Just to add a point - I am not a PVPer. I am not a MP, nor even close to being a master in any class. I do, however, firmly beleive in limiting the mastery of anyclass as much as possible.
Nope your analogy is incorrect IMO. Look at it this way. I have the drivers license, and I want a BMW. Assuming I am not a rich mfer, I can either: A) go the safe route, and not buy the BMW. Or B) take a risk and try to get the BMW.
But see what your using is choice, You choose to get your drivers licence becuase you wanted to drive, choice one. You want to drive a BMW, again you are choosing the car, that is choice. All your points give YOU the power each time. You dont have that in the master mission if you choose to get master you must accept PvP, you don;t get to do the master mission with no PvP, you don't get that choice. you want to drive the BMW you must drive a Pinto first, but not because you can;t buy the BMW, but because the government requires you to drive a Pinto, that is what we see in JTL. You want a Nova, YT or Decimator you have to PvP, yet we will tell you the game is consentual PvP. My anaolgy is absolutly spot on, you can't accept it because it doesn;t fit your #9 world view that choosing to get Master (A RIGHT of the pruchaser) and choosing to PvP are seperate choices.
But it IS a choice. You do not HAVE to be a Master Pilot. If you CHOOSE to be one, you accept the risks. If you feel the risks are not worth the rewards, fine. If you want to get something you want, you have to earn it. In this case, you have to brave a PVP area. I read quiet a few people got through without PVP. You define being a Master Pilot as a right, I don't see it that way. It's something that has to be earned, and part of that is willing to engage in risk.
No one is forcing you to be a MP. And that is the bottom line. You WANT to be one, but you don't HAVE to be one for the content. You can fly around with any ship.
You can do almost anything in the game except that final mission. There is nothing else after that, so the issue is - I want to be a master pilot, and I want those cool ships. Buying the game does not entitle you, me, or anyone to be a master anything, just like it didn't entitle anyone to be a jedi.
You want to be a Master Pilot, no problem, it's not impossible. The current Hyperspace camping issue is a problem, I agree. But moving the mission is not the way to fix it. Putting in a covert timer is a much better way.
No one said it was immpossible, or wrong or soloable, no one is saying this. What PvEers are saying is they wanted to have the choice to PvP or not, like we were told we had. Hyperspace camping is because PvEers are forced into PvP, a timer isn't going to change that PvEers cannot choose not to PvP. Moving the mission allows PvPers to well PvP with no complaints from PvEers, and allows PvEers to PvE without calling PvPers all griefers, Master is not supposed to be rare, or valuable it is the last skill box ina profession, you are fabricating this rarity concept. Tell me one reason without resorting to this fantasy that Master pilot is the rare and beautiful thing, or the PvP is the ONLY way to challenge EVERY player, why the Master mission being PvE is wrong?
Aevlom wrote:
"Grinding is not a way that the master part of any class should be reached. It should require either an incredibly difficult quest, one that is changed on a very regular basis, so that it is something memorable, or a PVP thing, something that will not make it common."
My arse.
SOEMADEthe gamethat way. Don't get on a high horse until they change ALL professions from being a grind-fest. When I see all the swordsman/fencer/riflemen/whatever templaters have to complete a quest to master their cookie cutter templates, I'll agree with you.
Until then, give us pilots who have a life and job a chance to get Ace. Most of us didn't have the opportunity to get Ace pilot in 2 days with no opposition, because no one was camping Kessel when THEY did their final quest.
I would love for SOE to change the basic game, but they never will. I would love to have them implement a limit of how many masters of any class could exist, and to get to an advanced class a incredibly difficult mission would be required instead of the crap thats there now. But that is not going to happen in the basic game, so we can only hope they start something here.
Vicotnik wrote:
Spoken like someone who actually has no idea how this works. No, you won't see everyone fly around in B-wings and TIE oppressors. Most people will take a TIE advanced or Interceptor over the Oppressor. Most people will take an X- or A-wing over the B-wing. Just because the ships are up there in the masterbox, it doesn't instantly mean that they are the best. And in fact,most of those master box ships are very useless for PVP, which makes it rather more amusing that the gate to get them is a PVP gate.
Baalzvuv wrote:
And to me, having everyone a Master DOES ruin my game. There should not be a lot of B-wings, Tie whatevers, or any of the high level craft. There should not be a lot of BH's that are just as good as Bobba Fett, pilots as good as Han Solo, and so on. But since thats what you want - in this case, it's fine to ruin someone elses game, since it isn't yours, huh?
My post was not only about Master Pilots, but about every class.
But it IS a choice. You do not HAVE to be a Master Pilot. If you CHOOSE to be one, you accept the risks. If you feel the risks are not worth the rewards, fine. If you want to get something you want, you have to earn it. In this case, you have to brave a PVP area. I read quiet a few people got through without PVP. You define being a Master Pilot as a right, I don't see it that way. It's something that has to be earned, and part of that is willing to engage in risk.
No one is forcing you to be a MP. And that is the bottom line. You WANT to be one, but you don't HAVE to be one for the content. You can fly around with any ship.
But they are forcing you to PvP. show me how to Master pilot as a choice and not PvP as a choice and you win. Mastering Pilot is a choice I paid for the game, it doesn't cost skill points, and nowhere is it said, implied or promoted as being rare or a priviledge.
Slarus wrote:
But it IS a choice. You do not HAVE to be a Master Pilot. If you CHOOSE to be one, you accept the risks. If you feel the risks are not worth the rewards, fine. If you want to get something you want, you have to earn it. In this case, you have to brave a PVP area. I read quiet a few people got through without PVP. You define being a Master Pilot as a right, I don't see it that way. It's something that has to be earned, and part of that is willing to engage in risk.
No one is forcing you to be a MP. And that is the bottom line. You WANT to be one, but you don't HAVE to be one for the content. You can fly around with any ship.
But they are forcing you to PvP. show me how to Master pilot as a choice and not PvP as a choice and you win. Mastering Pilot is a choice I paid for the game, it doesn't cost skill points, and nowhere is it said, implied or promoted as being rare or a priviledge.
The master mission requires risk. Risk from the AI is a certain level. And not a very high one at that. The PVP zone, increases the risk. It does not force you to PVP, it is not a part of the mission, but it requires more strategy, and tactics than straight on AI fighting. Perhaps it is a change SOE wanted to do to all the classes, make the final master a mission that requires great risk? I would love that.
Again, I want to reiterate - I am not a PVPer - but I think that the context of the game and the fact that the game has de-evolved into what it is today, may be whats behind SOE's desicion. The game is not SW - it is a place where nearly everyone is safe, and can do almost anything with no risk. Players are high ranking rebel officers nad Imperials, and do nothing to one another. They don't even think about not grouping with each other.
Maybe SOE wants to put that element back into the game and can only do it through the space expansion.
PvP doesn't equate to risk, no one can prove it. YOU believe it is risk, that's it. PvP is annoying to some, not risk, and even die hard PvPers alot will say PvP is not risk or proof of skill, so your assuming, nothing more. PvE is risky as PvP, both can get you killed so I fail to see how this is a point, however if you do not like fighting another player morally not because you lack skill but morally opposed to PvP what then?
Slarus wrote:
No one said that you have to be a MP. It's a choice you make. You don't want PVP - don't be a MP. The fact that you feel the need to be a MP is something else entirely. But PVP is only forced on you if you feel forced to be a MP.
I am morally opposed to PvP, but I want to master pilot, solve for X. If I or you had choice you could solve this. You think conditional PvP is a choice, no it is a condition.
Solve for X and you win, it's that simple.
I don;'t have to. You are making it a must have MP situation. You have 2 options - you want a third. You feel that you should be catered to because you feel that you should have another option.
Mp is not required. you feel it is, but it's not. You do not HAVE to HAVE MP.
I don;'t have to. You are making it a must have MP situation. You have 2 options - you want a third. You feel that you should be catered to because you feel that you should have another option.
Mp is not required. you feel it is, but it's not. You do not HAVE to HAVE MP.
You keep saying this, I keep asking you to tell me how to MP without PvP because this game is consentual PvP. You keep tieing MP and PvP together, you choose MP you choose PvP, when it is you choose MP you are stuck with the consequece of PvP.
I know MP is not required I know that but what I am asking is for the PvP consentual solution, and all you can do is drum on about how I choose MP, I am not talking about MP, get it out of your head I am talking about PvP, I choose MP I am forced by that choice to PvP in a game marketed as consentual PvP, the game doesn't say consentual MP it says consentual PvP, so please stop repeating yourself about choosing MP, you want to make it about MP that is fine, what EVERYONE who is talking about this mission is tlaking about is the PvP you are REQUIRED to participate in to get MP, that is not consentual PvP.