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Thread: Petition for PvP
truewildman
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:18 am
#27
LowbaTherf wrote:
hrmpf2 wrote:
Massadonious wrote:
I roleplay a war by fighting player characters of the opposite faction.
That isn't roleplaying, just fighting. Try pen and paper with a real gamemaster and you'll learn roleplay.
Oh and not signed, I dislike the attitude of most PvP'ers.
Message Edited by hrmpf2 on 11-09-2004 11:21 AM
This is true, I am one of the only RPers in a tabletop game where the others are fairly hack n slash. I love rp and hate PvP griefers as much as anyone else. I just feel that anything designed to make this game harder towards the end (not the beginning) and not based on grinding is good. I was grinding rifleman, and found I didn't like that playstyle much. I like being cognizent of the battle I am fighting not the xp I gain from each thing I kill. So now I basically only play JTL, and if I ever get Master Pilot (Iprobably will not, I don't group often enough) I want it to mean something. It would mean something if it was in a PvE only zone, with uberlevel enemies, but I am concerned if it gets out of kessel, then people may complain about it being too hard, and that may get changed. I support fixing things that are broken with the game, if something doesn't feel right, or a character/skill is useless, but there are some things that I feel do not need to be changed.
There's a couple other threads on this front page you need to say that on. Kudos to you, bud.
LowbaTherf
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:19 am
#28
Shadwe wrote:
THIS IS A BAD IDEA, The master mission needs to be moved.
You GRIEFERS (and yes your griefers), who have made master pilot go to kessel just to gank a 4-4-4-4 so you pat yourself on the back and say how great you are.
If all you "master pilots" can not tell the difference between another master and a 4-4-4-4 trying to a mission then your true morons.
The only reason you go to kessel is to grief 4-4-4-4 pilots to make a difficult almost impossible.
You want to keep kessel pvp and the master mission in it so you can GRIEF others.
If all you griefers truely want is to pvp other masters then move to the wildzone and fight another master but then you might lose and your ego could not tkae that could it.
YOUR IN KESSEL BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GRIEF IF YOU DID NOT WANT TO GREIF YOU'D BE IN THE WILDZONE.
YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY YOUR ACTION YOU HAVE ANOTHER ZONE TO PVP IN, 4-4-4-4 PILOTS DO NOT GET A CHOICE AND YOUR CHOICE IS TO GRIEF THEM.
Do not try to BS (note does not mean black sun) me or any of the rest of us who truly know you for what you are.
Message Edited by Shadwe on 11-09-2004 03:10 AM
first of all I am not a master, I do not get enough time to play. Second of all I am not a griefer, although I have been griefed before. I am too low a level in game to grief anyone but new players, and since I am an Eagle Scout, it is not in my nature to grief, especially new players. Third of all, if you are going to edit this post, which I see you have, for the love of all that is good and decent, fix the typos ok?
ShadowSaber5
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:26 am
#29
/not sign
the PvP'ers who agree to this are mostly master aces already so they didn't hve to go THROUGH what we are now. Kessel wasn't camped at the time you were there. You don't know what its like to try to do a mission 50 times only to get killed by a player in one shot when you are close to finishing the mission. Don't try to force PvP on us because YOU like it. It should be optional, like it is supposed to be. YOu want to PvP thats great! there are certain zones for you to do it in. But currently, a PvE mission is in a PvP zone which causes people who like to PvE PvP. It's not their playstyle, and what im seeing here are you (not all) PvP'ers don't respect that. How about we take away YOUR PvP and see what you do and how you like it. Im sure you wouldnt' be too pleased.
As for the people sayinig "I want Aces to be RARE!!" Wow...that is the most selfish thing you could say. How about fine, we make them rare, so we take away YOUR ace since they have to be rare. Oh you don't like that? too bad they are supposed to be rare! The game makes it so EVERYONE can be master pilot with enough time and effort, hence why it costs NO SKILLPOINTS. But the griefers are taking things into thier own hands to ruin the gameplay style for us PvE'ers who can't complete our mission from being ruined from a PvP'er. Im not saying all of you like too ruin our fun, but i do know some of you do. Oh and do you care that there are Master This and Master That runnign around? they are all over, but you dont' seem to complain about them. Stop carring about what other people are and just worry about yourself. So you got master Pilot, thats great. Don't prevent the rest of us from getting it because YOU think it should be rare.
I'm not opposed to PvP in any way. I've done it before on the ground and i frankly enjoy it sometimes. HOWEVER, when i do PvP it is because i WANT TO. I have the OPTION to go declare and PvP. However in kessel as it stands, you have NO option. you HAVE to do it. This is why it is forced and takes away the fun.
ALSO what you are seeing are ACES killing the 4/4/4/4 pilots who are trying to do thier missions. For one, this is unballanced since the aces are more powerful. If you want to REALLY PvP try going against other ACES. Try going to Deep Space and killing every Ace you see. Since there is NO chance that a 4/4/4/4 pilot is there, those who want to PvP are the ones you will be fighting, not the ones who dont'. PvP can be fun, but like i said early, it is only to those that enjoy it and WANT to do it. I respect thier playstyle, but for some reason most don't respect mine. From what it looks like they are selfish people who try to have thier playstyle prevail when in fact they are a minority in this game. So learn to respect other people's playstyle before saying I PWN JOO NOOB!
Then there is my final argument which relies around those people who say "well if its too hard then don't do it. No one is forcing you to master" You're right in that they aren't being forced to master, but if you read EVERY SINGLE reply to the issue, its not about master pilot, its about the FORCED PvP. So you really have no footing at all in your argument since it holds no value. Try reading the problem before shunning us saying we are weak and undeserving. The funny thing is, they are master and think that they automattically get the right to decide who gets to get master next. Its often those people that i see ruining the fun for the rest of us.
If you still think that PvP should be forced, then you obviously are too immature to understand aything i have just said, and therefore should go learn some respect for other playstyles. This game does not revolve around PvP. It is a great addition to the game, but it IS NOT the whole purpose of the game. There are many things to this game, and PvP is one of them, and that is why its optional. I think the DEV's did a good job with the CONCEPT of the 2 PvP zones as well as the fact you can go overt in space, or stay covert, but what they failed to do was KEEP it optional by putting the master missions in a PvP zone. If they are removed or instanced with no player interferance, then the problem would be solved. It would NOT hurt the PvP'ers, it could only HELP becuase you wouldn't have to worry about killing people on thier missions, and you would only be fighting people who are WILLING to PvP. So there you have it. With my evidence above i just prove my point that I:
/DON"T sign
the PvP'ers who agree to this are mostly master aces already so they didn't hve to go THROUGH what we are now. Kessel wasn't camped at the time you were there. You don't know what its like to try to do a mission 50 times only to get killed by a player in one shot when you are close to finishing the mission. Don't try to force PvP on us because YOU like it. It should be optional, like it is supposed to be. YOu want to PvP thats great! there are certain zones for you to do it in. But currently, a PvE mission is in a PvP zone which causes people who like to PvE PvP. It's not their playstyle, and what im seeing here are you (not all) PvP'ers don't respect that. How about we take away YOUR PvP and see what you do and how you like it. Im sure you wouldnt' be too pleased.
As for the people sayinig "I want Aces to be RARE!!" Wow...that is the most selfish thing you could say. How about fine, we make them rare, so we take away YOUR ace since they have to be rare. Oh you don't like that? too bad they are supposed to be rare! The game makes it so EVERYONE can be master pilot with enough time and effort, hence why it costs NO SKILLPOINTS. But the griefers are taking things into thier own hands to ruin the gameplay style for us PvE'ers who can't complete our mission from being ruined from a PvP'er. Im not saying all of you like too ruin our fun, but i do know some of you do. Oh and do you care that there are Master This and Master That runnign around? they are all over, but you dont' seem to complain about them. Stop carring about what other people are and just worry about yourself. So you got master Pilot, thats great. Don't prevent the rest of us from getting it because YOU think it should be rare.
I'm not opposed to PvP in any way. I've done it before on the ground and i frankly enjoy it sometimes. HOWEVER, when i do PvP it is because i WANT TO. I have the OPTION to go declare and PvP. However in kessel as it stands, you have NO option. you HAVE to do it. This is why it is forced and takes away the fun.
ALSO what you are seeing are ACES killing the 4/4/4/4 pilots who are trying to do thier missions. For one, this is unballanced since the aces are more powerful. If you want to REALLY PvP try going against other ACES. Try going to Deep Space and killing every Ace you see. Since there is NO chance that a 4/4/4/4 pilot is there, those who want to PvP are the ones you will be fighting, not the ones who dont'. PvP can be fun, but like i said early, it is only to those that enjoy it and WANT to do it. I respect thier playstyle, but for some reason most don't respect mine. From what it looks like they are selfish people who try to have thier playstyle prevail when in fact they are a minority in this game. So learn to respect other people's playstyle before saying I PWN JOO NOOB!
Then there is my final argument which relies around those people who say "well if its too hard then don't do it. No one is forcing you to master" You're right in that they aren't being forced to master, but if you read EVERY SINGLE reply to the issue, its not about master pilot, its about the FORCED PvP. So you really have no footing at all in your argument since it holds no value. Try reading the problem before shunning us saying we are weak and undeserving. The funny thing is, they are master and think that they automattically get the right to decide who gets to get master next. Its often those people that i see ruining the fun for the rest of us.
If you still think that PvP should be forced, then you obviously are too immature to understand aything i have just said, and therefore should go learn some respect for other playstyles. This game does not revolve around PvP. It is a great addition to the game, but it IS NOT the whole purpose of the game. There are many things to this game, and PvP is one of them, and that is why its optional. I think the DEV's did a good job with the CONCEPT of the 2 PvP zones as well as the fact you can go overt in space, or stay covert, but what they failed to do was KEEP it optional by putting the master missions in a PvP zone. If they are removed or instanced with no player interferance, then the problem would be solved. It would NOT hurt the PvP'ers, it could only HELP becuase you wouldn't have to worry about killing people on thier missions, and you would only be fighting people who are WILLING to PvP. So there you have it. With my evidence above i just prove my point that I:
/DON"T sign
LowbaTherf
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:30 am
#30
hrmpf2 wrote:
GadonThek wrote:
Just out of interest, why are roleplaying and PvP mutually exclusive?
They certainly aren't. You and your guild can hold pre-flight meetings, discuss tactical approches, go overt, slander the rebel scum/imperial dictators/neutral smugglers, put on your respective flight suits, yell commands at eachother and a hoist of other RP elements. What you can't do is go into space, do the dice rolling, and claim the PvE'ers you killed where part of your RP campaign, mainly because you aren't in the same campaign. The PvE'ers have been sent on a mission by an NPC, unfortunately for them their campaign takes place in the same aerospace as yours, but it's still a very different one. By killing them off, you're imposing your campaign on theirs, something which I highly doubt will ever work. I can't just come up with a real life counterpart example, but thing is, some (apparently many judging from replies and stars given in these sort of threads) play this for the PvE experience, mixing the two without concent causes problems.
I've yet to see anyone mention they like the current system, because it added additional excitment when they did their master mission. Of course they'll come now that I mention it, but had this been added before, I might have been able to agree, however since this point hasn't even been brought up, well, it's now void.
I disagree with you there. If I take a mission from a rebel on the ground, and some imperial rolepayers come by and see me blowing up an Imperial base, they should attack me. There is only one campaign here, and it is multifaceted. That is what an MMORPG is about. Everyone interacts with each other. So that means, if I am a PvP RPer in space, I should attack all targets that would be attacked by who I suppose to be, and should protect those my character would protect.
IrovMistwalker
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:31 am
#31
None, only the griefers want it to remain as is. Is that what you are a griefer? Maybe you should play another game, griefers are not wanted here!
LowbaTherf
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:35 am
#32
ShadowSaber5 wrote:
/not sign
the PvP'ers who agree to this are mostly master aces already so they didn't hve to go THROUGH what we are now. Kessel wasn't camped at the time you were there. You don't know what its like to try to do a mission 50 times only to get killed by a player in one shot when you are close to finishing the mission. Don't try to force PvP on us because YOU like it. It should be optional, like it is supposed to be. YOu want to PvP thats great! there are certain zones for you to do it in. But currently, a PvE mission is in a PvP zone which causes people who like to PvE PvP. It's not their playstyle, and what im seeing here are you (not all) PvP'ers don't respect that. How about we take away YOUR PvP and see what you do and how you like it. Im sure you wouldnt' be too pleased.
As for the people sayinig "I want Aces to be RARE!!" Wow...that is the most selfish thing you could say. How about fine, we make them rare, so we take away YOUR ace since they have to be rare. Oh you don't like that? too bad they are supposed to be rare! The game makes it so EVERYONE can be master pilot with enough time and effort, hence why it costs NO SKILLPOINTS. But the griefers are taking things into thier own hands to ruin the gameplay style for us PvE'ers who can't complete our mission from being ruined from a PvP'er. Im not saying all of you like too ruin our fun, but i do know some of you do. Oh and do you care that there are Master This and Master That runnign around? they are all over, but you dont' seem to complain about them. Stop carring about what other people are and just worry about yourself. So you got master Pilot, thats great. Don't prevent the rest of us from getting it because YOU think it should be rare.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
...once again, I am NOT a master pilot. I do want my ACE to be earned, if I get it. I do not want it reflective of the time I put in this game, but rather my skills and abilities. And my point is that master should mean something, and I would like to see some implimentation of that in the ground game, but since I have no answer as to how this could be done, I will keep my mouth shut about it. No reason to post a problem without a solution for a thing like that.
IntoTheGarbage
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:39 am
#33
/sign
It's only one mission and you just have to go to Kessel once, it is not asking much. You can't compare this to the other professions. Forced PvP in the ground game WOULD be wrong, but I think a minimal amount of PvP should be in JTL.
(I'm also in favor of reducing PvP damage, and creating multiple hyperpoints in Kessel.)
Message Edited by IntoTheGarbage on 11-09-2004 05:30 PM
Massadonious
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:39 am
#34
IrovMistwalker wrote:
None, only the griefers want it to remain as is. Is that what you are a griefer? Maybe you should play another game, griefers are not wanted here!
I am not a griefer, nor was I ever, nor will I ever be....and I was a Bounty Hunter.
I do support keeping the missions in Kessel, as long as there is a PvP damagereduction implimented.
Do you have any other assumptions to make, or would you like to eat your shoe now?
GreatWarrior
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:43 am
#35
As I stated in a previous post on another forum, if you are able to survive Kessel then you are ace material.You have the power to organize escort teams, to load and configure your ship to how you see fit. If you are dying alone in Kessel, learn from it, and go think about what you need to do. Plan ahead... do you need missiles? Do you need escorts? Then go and try it again.
Those whining about it just proves they are not Ace material. If you can't take a battle, why would your faction want you as their top pilot?
Silest
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:52 am
#37
Massadonious wrote:
I roleplay a war by fighting player characters of the opposite faction.
Next.
Great, all us freelance pilots will be safe from PvP then.
Just kidding!
Xconxors
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:00 am
#38
Oh please.... No more with the "PvP insures the master box is challenging" crap.. Theres nothing challenging about PvP in space.
The 1 or 2 shots needed to kill a ship in PvP insures that skill has little to do with the experience.
I wouldn't mind the forced PvP condition so much if I actually had a chance to flaunt superior twitch skills.
As it stands now- it's a matter of landing that first shot at great distance. Not much skill there....
Sorry PvP'ers- your seriously out-voted on this one. If your wondering why- you can blame the poor behavior of your own community for a lot of the anti-PvP sentiment.We "carebears" have seen too many examples of poor sportsmanship, ganking, griefing and trash talk to give you much in the way of credibility on this issue. You blew it, you have only similar minded allies in the PvP crowd, and that ain't saying much...
Flame on - I can take it
MillaMerani
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:03 am
#39
LowbaTherf wrote:
PvP IS optional.
Really? Where can I turn it off. Honestly I do not find any fun in running a gauntlet between PKers who can kill you with 2 or 3 well-placed shots (or 1 shot), ruining hours of preparation.
Having the master mission in Kessel rewards those players who either like PvP, or those with enough squad mates where they can handle the PvPers. I do not propose forcing everyone to PvP, I just feel that it is good that there is a little variety now.
I agree that grouping should be rewarded (it is a reward in itself as it makes your life easier) but why on earth should PvPers rewarded to the detriment of PvEers? This expansion was designed for everybody, I did not see in the ads that JTL was designed to reward PvP-ers. If they are willing to develop an expansion that rewards PvPers, okay, that's fine, they should have their own kind of fun, because I do not want to deny them their fun.
Message Edited by MillaMerani on 11-09-2004 06:12 PM