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Thread: Poll: JTL Longevity.
Jolandir
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:35 am
#27
Look if you don't like the game stop playing. These silly polls come out every time something new is added or fixed with all the doomsday sayers prophecing the end of SWG and everything else pratically. JTL is great in most ways and so is SWG. No they are not perfect, but for that matter neither is any game you can mention. My goodness there are even a few negative things people have pointed out for Halo2 that just sold 80 million pre-sale.
If you don't like the game, we are glad you tried it, but please find the game you like and don't tear it apart or look to closely because it will have flaws in it. So enjoy your games that you like. We like this one. Again no it isn't perfect. We all know that, even the Devs know that. But stop decrying SWG and now JTL. If you don't like it stop playing.
Jolandir
offem
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:39 am
#28
One word "Boring" thats how i would sum it up, there is no content in the JTL, no relevent story arc to follow and nothing to do with the GCW, i played it for a total of about 2 hours since i got it advanced really quick up the pilot tree in just 2 hours and i find it very boring, i will stick to the ground. I'm just glad i dont have to pay a monthly on jtl and galaxies lol.
meeuki
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:47 am
#29
Jolandir wrote:Look if you don't like the game stop playing. These silly polls come out every time something new is added or fixed with all the doomsday sayers prophecing the end of SWG and everything else pratically. JTL is great in most ways and so is SWG. No they are not perfect, but for that matter neither is any game you can mention. My goodness there are even a few negative things people have pointed out for Halo2 that just sold 80 million pre-sale.If you don't like the game, we are glad you tried it, but please find the game you like and don't tear it apart or look to closely because it will have flaws in it. So enjoy your games that you like. We like this one. Again no it isn't perfect. We all know that, even the Devs know that. But stop decrying SWG and now JTL. If you don't like it stop playing.Jolandir
the flaw in your assertion is that if nobody ever complained, you'd be playing the game that was released back in august 03 now.
here's a new assertion for you: dismissing flaws in game design, dismissing lack of content, and dismissing the posts decrying both, is far worse than complaining about it. people "complaining" (read: discussing) this game made it what it is now, which is the game you like you so much.
meeuki
Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:49 am
#30
Zakalwe-naritus wrote:
meeuki:
I dunno about Snad, but I played the best ww2 prop flightsim ever created, Warbirds 3. The learning curve was impossible, you never truely mastered any plane and most people who played it owned a copy of Shaw's book on air combat maneuvering. It's like playing chess where a move must be made every second. Know your opponent, know your plane, know your energy state and have the coordination on the throttle, rudder and stick to fly it right on the edge. You'd fly against ~200 others dispersed on a map. The graphics were only moderate but the flight model was amazing. Most fun I've ever had online.
that insane, i never knew anything like that existed. i'm going to have to look it up.
DaveG
Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:24 pm
#31
Jolandir wrote:
Look if you don't like the game stop playing. These silly polls come out every time something new is added or fixed with all the doomsday sayers prophecing the end of SWG and everything else pratically. JTL is great in most ways and so is SWG. No they are not perfect, but for that matter neither is any game you can mention. My goodness there are even a few negative things people have pointed out for Halo2 that just sold 80 million pre-sale.
If you don't like the game, we are glad you tried it, but please find the game you like and don't tear it apart or look to closely because it will have flaws in it. So enjoy your games that you like. We like this one. Again no it isn't perfect. We all know that, even the Devs know that. But stop decrying SWG and now JTL. If you don't like it stop playing.
Jolandir
Jolandir, to turn your post back on to you I'd say if you don't like these threads, then stop reading then, we'll be glad to not have to read posts like yours!
Now, seriously, the reason we have threads like this is because we actually like (nay love?) SWG/JTL, and are aching for them to fullfill their full potential, because if they did, then we'd have our "ulitimate game". So we talk about how that could happen (despite any cynicism we may have about the devs listening to us: go on devs, prove me wrong) 
.
Message Edited by DaveG on 11-10-2004 07:25 PM
Jolandir
Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:40 pm
#32
Meeuki wrote:
Jolandir wrote:
Look if you don't like the game stop playing. These silly polls come out every time something new is added or fixed with all the doomsday sayers prophecing the end of SWG and everything else pratically. JTL is great in most ways and so is SWG. No they are not perfect, but for that matter neither is any game you can mention. My goodness there are even a few negative things people have pointed out for Halo2 that just sold 80 million pre-sale.
If you don't like the game, we are glad you tried it, but please find the game you like and don't tear it apart or look to closely because it will have flaws in it. So enjoy your games that you like. We like this one. Again no it isn't perfect. We all know that, even the Devs know that. But stop decrying SWG and now JTL. If you don't like it stop playing.
Jolandir
the flaw in your assertion is that if nobody ever complained, you'd be playing the game that was released back in august 03 now.
here's a new assertion for you: dismissing flaws in game design, dismissing lack of content, and dismissing the posts decrying both, is far worse than complaining about it. people "complaining" (read: discussing) this game made it what it is now, which is the game you like you so much.
You are not following the poll nor why I made the comment, it is simply a knee jerk response. I never saidno one shouldbring to light things the game needs. Note I stated that the game obviously has flaws and I stated that the Devs no that as well. I also stated the professional reviews on Halo 2 see some flaws. There is nothing wrong with this, and I never stated that they were wrong for stating so. I was commenting on polls that prophecy the doom of SWG/JTL and they come out all the time, they have nothing constructive to state they just say "boring", nor is it constructive to just state "we want content", with the 100s of thousands who play this game what does that mean. All of us have different ideas of what content is. There are tons of posts that I continually applaud who make constructive suggestions for improvements and for what they view would be better content, and I have done so myself. I have no problems with the person who started this poll or yourself posting constructive and hopefully well thought out suggestions. "Boring" and "more content" alone are not constructive and it doesn't help the Devs at all. Each of us has different views of what we would like to see in the game, fixed (at least in our opinion) and what we probably finding boring. The devs have continually sought constructive suggestions and critics of the game. So before you respond in a knee jerk fashion please think it through. I have been voted down on some of my ideas and people have given descent and good reasons why. I have no problem with that either.
Jolandir
DaveG
Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:47 pm
#33
Jolandir,
Read the whole thread though. There have been some very nicely constructive ideas (and yes, criticisms) ideas come out, just as I'd hoped there'd be.
However though, simply saying that something is "boring" is valid. It means it isn't holding interest and that if it is to be not-boring then it needs to be fixed.
FredP
Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:48 pm
#34
Space mission terminals? for what?
After ACE pilot - there is nothing left in JTL, especillay after Tuesday when Kessel gets nerfed to PvE.
Boredom with JTL is setting in already.
Kinshi
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:01 pm
#35
Im happy the way it is, I think its fun as hell simply building the ships let alone flying them.
If I wanted something added, I would say add space elements into some of the ground terminal missions (mix space and ground). I dont want just space missions, because I think its a bad idea to give people a means to ignore the ground game.
so to the poll,
Yes I belive that folks will get bored and come back to the ground. Really, JTL is something fun to do as a diversion while the devs get the combat revamp figured out. Ground game is still where its at (as it should be)
I dont think it would be hard for the devs to add in explore/delivery missions that require space travel, you just have to come back down to earth to do your delivery or check in with various NPCs on the ground.
If I wanted something added, I would say add space elements into some of the ground terminal missions (mix space and ground). I dont want just space missions, because I think its a bad idea to give people a means to ignore the ground game.
so to the poll,
Yes I belive that folks will get bored and come back to the ground. Really, JTL is something fun to do as a diversion while the devs get the combat revamp figured out. Ground game is still where its at (as it should be)
I dont think it would be hard for the devs to add in explore/delivery missions that require space travel, you just have to come back down to earth to do your delivery or check in with various NPCs on the ground.
Jolandir
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:14 pm
#36
DaveG wrote:
Jolandir,
Read the whole thread though. There have been some very nicely constructive ideas (and yes, criticisms) ideas come out, just as I'd hoped there'd be.
I agree the thread does have that, but that isn't what I was commenting on, as I think you know.
However though, simply saying that something is "boring" is valid. It means it isn't holding interest and that if it is to be not-boring then it needs to be fixed.
DaveG this is not a personal attack on you by any means. Your poll simply states youplayed and are now bored. Ummm, ok. We all define boring. According to our personal tastes and yours isn't combat, nor is mine if that is all I do. Your poll simply stated:
Will you get bored of JTL if the content remains combat orientated only ?
First even though heavily combat oriented which the Devs said it would be from the beginning and said it would favor the twitch players (which I am not, my son is though) and would even favor those who love flight combat sims and have the gear to play it would be favored the most of all. I still don't find it boring. frustrating at times yes which I have commented on in other areas of this forum. But what you think is boring and I would consider boring is most likely two very different things. Then if you add all the people who play SWG and/or JTL we would get a tremendous amount of "definitions" on boring and content. So a poll that simply put it the way you did is not constructive. Yes people have turned it into a constructive thread. I read this not because I want to slam/flame you or anything. I was hope to see why you felt this way, meaning some content if you will allow me the word and some thoughtful ideas. That one sentence line is definitely not what I was hoping you were aiming at.
"if the content remains combat oriented only". First I don't find it combat oriented only, combat intensive most definitely. But I have taken tours of some of the zones looking for interesting things hinted at in the zone maps. I have tried to follow their story arch to this point, and like it so far. Do I want it to stay this way for a year, heavens no. But DaveG you have to go back and look at the movies and read the books. Space has always in SW been combat oriented. There are a few scenes where important dialog and interchange take place, but by far and away it was the amazing and seeming constant space battles that enthraled most people when they think of the movies and books space scenes.
Do I think that it should be better connected to the ground game. Yes! Do I want more adventures of exploring if I want to do that in space, sure with the many possible dangerous aspects yes, but I certainly want to see this. Do I hope for guild/city owned starports, captial ships, yes! Am I writing and appealing to the Devs to do this, yes! Do I want more than only two ships, with different reasons and purposes to each, Yes! Do I want to bored the "enemy" ships and try and take them over for my faction, Yes!, (sneaky way of getting the ground game into space). Do I want to have faction run starport that you can enter, Yes!
I could easily go on, BUT I do not find your poll helpful. Had you given well presented ideas of your concerns and desires sure I could see that would generate a lot of thought and discussion, as has my response to you, and now your response to me. We are finally getting to where maybe wanted to be in the first place, but this isn't a flame, your original poll as written in my opinion was terrible. Again that is just my personal opinion, nor does it mean you don't have a right to post it like you did.
I believe you have to agree there is a lot of discussion going on in this forum about a lot of aspects of JTL, and some very good threads. So I am not sure why you felt the need for you "poll" especially without some content from you as to why and what do you mean by boring, and if we agree, give some suggestions to stimulate thought and discussion as to how it could be more enlivened. You have to know there are a sizable minority of people who are power gamers and twitch players, who have been dying for this kind of "content and fun". They also think it can be improved and are making good suggestions to how that can be. One of those as a for instance is the one on how everyone can make master pilot whether they are into PvP or not. I thought it was very good, and I am by no means a great fan of PvP as the main course. So I am suggesting that in the future, now that we have dialogued some, that you give us more content and definition with some good ideas from your perspective of what could help. I can't believe you or anyone else truly believes SWG or JTL for that matter are a finished product, in fact I would go so far as to say there isn't any MMORPG or even MMOG that is a "finished" product no matter how good one thinks it is. They have to evolve, they have to add content and adjust and tweek if they are going to survive, and SWG and JTL are no different.
Well anyway, enough said. I still don't think your original post was helpful, BUT that is just my opinion.
Jolandir
Frederik
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:25 pm
#37
ImperialCommando1138 wrote:In its current form, I don't see much keeping interested after I master Shipwright and Pilot. The "canned" missions to get there are interesting puzzles, sometimes a little repetitive or even ridiculous (12 on 1? please), but that all ends when you hit the last level. Adding space mission terminals would extend that longevity somewhat, but it will quickly become a rather soulless exercise just like the ground combat mission terminals are.What we really need is a concerted effort by the developers to add some galaxy-affecting content to this game. The ground game has no purpose to it. Some fantastic, epic battles have been fought between the Imperials and Rebels in the past year, but nothing every becomes of it. There is no "Galactic Civil War", just some bar fights or gang warfare that accomplishes nothing---not terrain changes hands, no cities are devastated or occupied, destroying a base means nothing, etc. It's an endless guerilla war with no organization and no meaning.That being said about the ground game, the space side is similarly lacking. Sure, at the high end you can go take on a Star Destroyer or something, but what does destroying (if you can ) mean? Another one will take its place. The Imperial Fleet has hundreds of things. I'm only half-way through pilot right now but I can see the boredom ahead at the end of the tunnel.I've pleaded for this, along with hundreds of others before, to no avail so far, but here are some suggestions, some simple and some not, for making this game work and expand. Something we all want.(1) Stop worrying about offending some small vocal segment of the player base. Face it, not everyone is going to be 100% happy with whatever you do. Listen to suggestions certainly, but take the consensus view and forge ahead with it.(2) Make the GCW actually mean something. Give bonuses of some sort (squad leader organization skills, cost of factional items) to the side who controls the most territory in the galaxy, including BOTH ground and space sectors. A simple method of calculating control---add up the total number of combat and/or prestige/faction skill points accumulated by each side on a weekly basis. Grade the control on the standard wargame sliding scale of victory---Decisive, Marginal, Undecided. Grant bonuses on this scale according to how many sectors throughout the galaxy are controlled by each side. Each week, the control is decided and bonuses awarded automatically. If possible, grade PvP activity higher than PvE points by some amount, thereby encouraging combat between players.(3) Some additional functions that are required: if a faction controls all the space sectors around a planetary system, a blockade of sorts has been successful. The ground game should be impacted by this blockade for the losing side, as well as significant travel restrictions by regular transport services (i.e. non-JTL). This is where our smuggler friends come into play, doing the stuff they supposedly do best. Add roaming bands of patrol ships, just like the ground game, that stop and inspect cargo for contraband. This helps integrate the ground and space games.(4) In the current timeframe, Jedi must be marginalized to factional in-fighting between the Dark and Light side. The Emperor and Darth Vader, along with incredibly difficult NPC's, must clamp down HARD on any visible Jedi, from either side or Luke Skywalker has no purpose in this game. Likewise, any Overt Rebels should be running for their lives constantly from endless streams of no-faction-point Storm, Commando, and Dark Trooper battalions hunting them down at first sight. It's a complete immersion killer to see groups of arrogant overt Rebels running around cities freely, and this has been a fault of the game from Day 1. Forget the complaints about "equality" and "balance". There should be none. You go Rebel, you automatically have the equivalent of a Death Warrant on your head. They are a guerilla force supposedly running from place to place just barely ahead of doom. How did this get forgotten?Please, again, Developers....think hard about this or the exodus will continue.Kalimir Krud, Tarquinas
You hit it right on the head ImperialCommando1138, and good job keeping it simple. Everybody tends to overcomplicate the GCW, when all we really need for it is a purpose. I think everyone would be happier if jedi were removed from the GCW (but not the game), its insane to think of how jedi-centered the current GCW model is.
DaveG
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:29 pm
#38
First off Jolandir, didnt' take it as a personal attack, so we're fine there! I repsonded as I did to your first post because I found the tone of that one slightly hypocritical, but I made my respnoseand that was an end to it.
- Why did I post anything at all?
- Out of frustration from what I see as a very limited expansion which could be so much more.
- Why didI post it as I did?
- I wanted to ask a short succint question to the players about their outlook based on their experiences so far. I hoped but didn't expect good ideas might pop up. Luckily they did. I didn't post any myself until after the thread got going because I wanted to leave it open for the thread to develop on it's own without my intervention.
From what you said though, I must disagree and reassert that JTL only has combat content. Sure you can go nebula spotting if you want, but how many times can you do that until you get bored? I know in Star Wars that all of what we saw the movies was space combat, but then again, neither in the movies did we see chefs or architects. My point? My point is that people want to partake in things other than combat, and there's plenty of potential for none-combat space activities.
However, I will take your criticism on board, and post something else in the next few days with more specific structure, and not just asking "are you bored yet?" or something similar.
Message Edited by DaveG on 11-10-2004 09:38 PM
Gallanndro
Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:30 pm
#39
what they have done with JTLS is amazing (eg multi passanger ships) however i agree that they need a long time hook to keep people interested. Most of their solutions and ideas for content have been linear, and in an attempt to apeal to everyone ended up with a watered down version of what it should be.
there realy needs to be more random content elements to the game, events that don't happen after you do X,Y and Z. something that you wont find someone posting a step by step walk through on the web.
they introduced the old man for the force quests ....what if they introduced random npc's that wanted to charter a flight to a random destination (ie Han & Chewie sitting in the cantina when Ben and luke walked up to them looking for a ride) or aproached you randomly for a quest.
Space mining is a great idea and wont make the planet mining obsolete, have elements in space that are superior in resorce quality. Kessel is a good idea for new spices, and have peoplesmugglingspices in kessel get randomly harased by the oficials (wouldn't it be awesome to try to avoid a boarding by an imperial gun boat as try to stop you on a random search for contraband)