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Thread: X-Wing Space Superiority Fighter....NNNNOOOOTTTT!!!!!
Message Edited by ArianSix on 11-09-2004 06:38 AM
DarthDiesel wrote:
Ahahahahaa!! Youre kidding right?? GIve me a break - it would not overload squat.
Message Edited by Starson on 11-09-2004 01:51 PM
DarthDiesel wrote:
Oh for God's sake. Laser convergence killed the game?!?!? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!! DUDE?!? What the HECK are you smoking??!!
In a lot of the lterature, and HECK, EVEN IN THE MOVIES, there are suggestions that that's how the X Wings laser system works. And it didnt ruin gameplay at all. The convergence in XWA was automatic, and as I recall, could be switched to infinite - THERE WAS NO DOWNSIDE!!
My God, you guys are pathetic.
You are correct Starson, in JTL one shot hitting is the same as all shots hitting, why I am in favour of fixed convergence is it still means people have to learn to aim, while the "automatic convergence" many are pushing for increases the chances of hitting greatly
DarthDiesel wrote:
Very cute. Did I say it would not require more processor power? NOOO.
No, you said it would not overload squat and without a decent understanding of machine loads your statement is empty.
All I said was it wouldnt really make much difference.
Actually you are completely wrong. If you take a simple calculation and multiply it by the number of users, even a simple inefficiency can suck up a tremendous amount of processing power. The calculations in your scenario are not necessarily that simple so we can be talking about a huge amount of processing costs here.
AND I AM RIGHT.
Clueless is more like it. What do you think makes machines crash? Bad code? Yes. Hardware problems? Yes. Programs that go beyond the capability of the machine? Yes.
What do you think causes Theed to crash when 300 people are there blowing each other away? It's not bad code... the main culprit is usually the load exceeding the capability of the server in that area.
I've written code before. While I don't know the details of processor costs for calculating a trig function compared to a look-up-table or whatnot, you have to be on crack to think this simple operation will in any noticable way decrease gaming performance, or "break the server."
You cannot even claim to be a good programmer if you have no concept of processor costs. This is a very central concept in the education of any programmer.
Trigonometric functions are actually very arithmatic intensive and a point of optimization for 3D game developers. Who do you think designed the table lookup method to void Trig costs? 3D programmers because the cost of doing Trig in real time is very high.
Again, you're claim of no performance cost is without merit. Any increase in processing means more process per player action which means fewer actions before hitting your system's capacity. It's as simple as that.
I didnt fly off the handle for fun (frankly, I don't think my post was at all uncalled-for or outrageous - you guyshave some pretty thin skins) - I did it because the suggestion was frankly absurd.
Right, instead you flamed a person who's post is actually much closer to reality than the post you flamed him with.
His (?)concerns are true concerns in a MMO environment. With so many people banging on the systems lag, processing cost, the amount of data send b/w computers... all this is very important.
Go ahead and ask a SWG developer if they are concerned with the processor and bandwidth usage associated with any given change or if they make changes blindly because they don't mean squat. Their answer here is pretty obvious.
-- A6
Citairen_Mugarrii wrote:
You are correct Starson, in JTL one shot hitting is the same as all shots hitting, why I am in favour of fixed convergence is it still means people have to learn to aim, while the "automatic convergence" many are pushing for increases the chances of hitting greatly
No. You dont get it.
Convergence simply means all four lasers hit the target WHEN a pilot has the skill to actually hit the target. If a target is too small, half the X Wing lasers miss, or you must fire single fire and correct the craft's trajectory constantly.
Convergence, automatic or otherwise, does NOT at all increase the chances of hitting the target. As a matter of fact, with proper physics,infinite convergence (the way it is now) DOES increase the odds of landing a hit with at least 1 of the 4 blasts.
And automatic convergence is fine - fixed point, or auto, makes little difference to me. But there's no reason the ships onboard computer couldnt calculate and correct the blaster aim for automatic range-adjusting convergence. That is, in "reality," were an X Wing to be real,how it would work.
And btw, I fly a TIE Fighter, so I don't deal with this issue. I must say though, when an XwIng shoots me, it DOES feel like all 4 shots are hitting me.
Message Edited by DarthDiesel on 11-09-2004 04:26 PM
ArianSix wrote:
DarthDiesel wrote:
Very cute. Did I say it would not require more processor power? NOOO.
No, you said it would not overload squat and without a decent understanding of machine loads your statement is empty.
All I said was it wouldnt really make much difference.
Actually you are completely wrong. If you take a simple calculation and multiply it by the number of users, even a simple inefficiency can suck up a tremendous amount of processing power. The calculations in your scenario are not necessarily that simple so we can be talking about a huge amount of processing costs here.
AND I AM RIGHT.
Clueless is more like it. What do you think makes machines crash? Bad code? Yes. Hardware problems? Yes. Programs that go beyond the capability of the machine? Yes.
What do you think causes Theed to crash when 300 people are there blowing each other away? It's not bad code... the main culprit is usually the load exceeding the capability of the server in that area.
I've written code before. While I don't know the details of processor costs for calculating a trig function compared to a look-up-table or whatnot, you have to be on crack to think this simple operation will in any noticable way decrease gaming performance, or "break the server."
You cannot even claim to be a good programmer if you have no concept of processor costs. This is a very central concept in the education of any programmer.
Trigonometric functions are actually very arithmatic intensive and a point of optimization for 3D game developers. Who do you think designed the table lookup method to void Trig costs? 3D programmers because the cost of doing Trig in real time is very high.
Again, you're claim of no performance cost is without merit. Any increase in processing means more process per player action which means fewer actions before hitting your system's capacity. It's as simple as that.
I didnt fly off the handle for fun (frankly, I don't think my post was at all uncalled-for or outrageous - you guyshave some pretty thin skins) - I did it because the suggestion was frankly absurd.
Right, instead you flamed a person who's post is actually much closer to reality than the post you flamed him with.
His (?)concerns are true concerns in a MMO environment. With so many people banging on the systems lag, processing cost, the amount of data send b/w computers... all this is very important.
Go ahead and ask a SWG developer if they are concerned with the processor and bandwidth usage associated with any given change or if they make changes blindly because they don't mean squat. Their answer here is pretty obvious.
-- A6
Sorry man - I don't know what world you live in.
Sure, multiply it by the thousands of users on a server (galaxy) and it can add up. You seem to forget that, compared to ALL THE OTHER CALCULATIONS GOING ON, this one would be practically insignificant!! The processors in question can handle A LOT LOT LOT LOT more than such a simple calculation, even thousands of such calcs.
Clueless my ass - look in the mirror. Like I said, compared to all that crap you claim will crash a server, that simple calculation is like the risk of breaking a car's suspension by choosing to carry a 12lb book with you instead of a more efficient 10lb, or even 2lb book, where the car's total mass is like 3000lbs.
Again, I never claimed no performance cost. Why not use look up tables to do the auto convergence? I don't care what method you use - you admit right there an easy way to include it. Heck, why not just let the user's CPU handle the computation, and send the convergence angle value or whatever to the server?
If you want to complain that such a simple game feature would risk a server crash, then lets start adding up the THOUSANDS OF OTHER simple little code features that are included in the game, and judge them by the same standard. Bottom line is, those thousands ARE the standard I'm using - this simple addition would be puny compared to all of them.
Yes, system resources are important. AND THEY MUST BE BALANCED OUT WITH GAMEPLAY VALUE!!!
And since you clearly have problems comprehending reality - I wasnt the first to flame. And I certainly wasnt awareany post containing any emotional content or fervent opinions equates to flaming. I didnt attack any posters at all, just made a reasonableopinionatedstatement. Then I'm told I'm being an ass:
Dreamland wrote:
DarthDiesel wrote:
Ahahahahaa!! Youre kidding right?? GIve me a break - it would not overload squat.
Why is it people feel a need to act like a total ass when replying to something.
My God, what a load of crap. Closer to reality. LMFAO. Yeah, go ahead and ask the Dev - according to you, their ONLY concern is "gee, will this consume .003% more processor power?! Oh MY GOD!! WE CAN'T ALLOW IT - so what if it makes the game better!?" Freagin smartass juvenile internet twits.
Message Edited by DarthDiesel on 11-10-2004 07:15 PM
Other games have the convergence optionslike Warbirds and Aces High, I think (Its been a while since I played it) WWII online had it on their aircraft as well. I do not have the x-wing cert yet, so I don't know but, ifthe shots never converge that would be a major drawback to the xwing! If they just run straight out that should be fixed.