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Thread: Forced PVP and Griefing Ganking Teams
SirRocky
Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:18 am
#14
Mot-Irujam wrote:
I've posted on other threads, and I'll post here. Get rid of forced PVP in space. I dont mind the corvette mission. But being forced to face people higher level than me, with better equipment, that want nothing more than to kill me so I cant master, is stupid. Fix it please. The ratio of people wanting to get rid of this, vs people wanting to keep it, is like 20-1. That should tell you who to listen to.
Most Aces don't have that much better equipment. I one-shotted players with Tier 4 equipment.
Tier 5/Master Equipment tends to be about 35-40k mass per component. Not sure about the B-Wing or the TIE Oppressor, but in general, the ships I've seen people PvP with tend to not be able to support high masses.
Example..... A-Wing.... Seen PvPers in this..... you could maybe fit 1 Tier 5 component on this ship, and only with a severe reduction in other parts.
Neutrals have the Ryxhrk (sp?).... Mine has 130k Mass and can fit alot of stuff. But honestly, fitting Tier 5 equipment is almost a waste on it.
It's not the equipment that's causing the issue of being killed so fast.
The reason most people are dying and complaining, is because they weren't EXPECTING pvp. People go into Kessel to do their mission, they know it's a PvP zone. However, they don't expect other players to attack them. And when other players do, they flip out and get pissed. You can 1-2 shot any other player with Tier 4 equipment. It's not hard. The problem is, you aren't expecting PvP (when you should be) and the other player sneaks up on you and gets you before you can react.
Damage Reduction in PvP, yes.... Getting rid of the Kessel missions, no.....
They add a challenge to the monotonous grind of Pilot.
Raotek
Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:30 am
#15
Could just kick master pilots out of kessel and leave them to deep space only, and leave kessel to pvp for anyone below master. Also another solution would be to put a time limit on how long you can stay in kessel, that would kick grievers out every once and a while.
Message Edited by Raotek on 11-08-2004 12:32 PM
Vicotnik
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:19 am
#16
Raotek wrote:
Could just kick master pilots out of kessel and leave them to deep space only, and leave kessel to pvp for anyone below master. Also another solution would be to put a time limit on how long you can stay in kessel, that would kick grievers out every once and a while.
Message Edited by Raotek on 11-08-2004 12:32 PM
But that would just create new problems. (Keeping masters from content in the first solution, and mission doers being kicked out in the second)
Golrok
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:19 am
#17
Bugboy321 wrote:
I wouldn't mind the master mission in Kessel if PvP wasn't a one-shot-your-dead proposition. THAT needs to be fixed more than anything if that's indeed how it is.
Can we hear from some PvP fans on this? Do you PvP'ers like the imbalance (if any) when you are on the receiving end? Is there any challange to ganking with one shot? Will the tendency for Griefer PvP'ers to subscribe to the "Powell Doctrine" (hugely outnumber your victim with overwelming force) always rule the day? It's been my experience with PvP that most are not in it for the challenge, they are in it for the feeling of gratification in controlling someone else's game experience. Stroke that fragile ego!
There's some tough stuff out there (NPC) but I haven't run into any that are one-shotters, nor are there 40 to 1 battles, the most deadly simply outmanuever me to get shots in...SHOTS, plural not SHOT.
I'm a big shooterPVP fan but I never have like shooting someone in the back as a ground troop, (maybe with just a pistol to get their attention) In battlefront I play an Imp pilot but I would rather jump down from my ST and fight on foot against a player rebel (battlfront is PVP/PVE combined also)
Because you like this style of PVP doesnt mean your always a griefer. I get no thrill in one shot killing a rebel troop inbattlefront with an AT-ST or jumping a player that doesnt see me. Its funner when were facing each other and he knows I'm there. Unless he's already cheap shotted me, I don't get a thrill off cheapshotting others. (when your fight for your team its different though, when your in random teams its more about honor than your team winning)
But I don't represent the majority of shooter fans. Most of them get off on cheapshots, sniping, camping troop spawns with vehicles, and running away from a fair fight.
Jaxus
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:23 am
#18
I absolutlely hate PVP and am not looking forward to HAVING to doit in JTL, even though I'm a decent fighter pilot.
Let me restate this... I really like playing against other people, it's the attitudes and immaturity that PVP seems to generate that I don't like. If folks could do it and have fun without swearing etc. I would probably embrace it more.
Message Edited by Jaxus on 11-08-2004 12:36 PM
JustusCade
Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:32 am
#19
I find it interesting how the core game pretty much discourages griefing, yet the expansion seems to embrace it. For the most part, griefing on the ground is minimal, however enter a PvP zone in space and things change drastically. It's not really fair to other players who just want to master, and THEN PVP, not try to master and have to worry about someone killing them in 1 or 2 shots (which also should be looked into.) However I think all these rants will go on deaf ears until the combat revamp is out, JTL was just to tide us over until that time and to keep us coughing up the subscription fee. It's good yes, but how they didn't think a level you are required to do in a PvP zone would result in griefing is beyond me. Not only that, but the dog fights aren't really that dynamic. I remember playing XvT and X-Wing Alliance multiplayer and had some awesome matches, but JTL...well.. you know.
skunsul
Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:44 am
#20
for making world balanced, jtl just need police, with ability for ship and modules confiscation. NOT '6K stormtrooper 30% base resist' that support law and order in Bestine. high level npc ships that intercept killer in station space sector. death or land - call ship confiscation. and optionaly (but very usefull 
data from credit card (address, name) printed on special internet page. that every can read, and meet with this 'master pilot' in real life for making some pvp.
data from credit card (address, name) printed on special internet page. that every can read, and meet with this 'master pilot' in real life for making some pvp.
Vegi
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:20 pm
#22
If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to advance from 4/4/4/4 to master. And if you must, try getting a larger group of your own to take them out.
Avengre
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:48 pm
#23
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I dislike, free PVP in kessel/deepspace is good. If you want die, dont enter. Why PVE players always want kill PVP play?
Solution: mission to up master pilot must be out kessel/deepspace.
PVP in free zones is good for all, make a gank group you too.
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Oh dear god, webster is crying... Formulate a sentence, then type it.
Message Edited by Avengre on 11-08-2004 11:49 AM
Uther27
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:57 pm
#24
RamaDragonStar wrote:
Well it finally happened.On Chilastra Server the other day a bunch of players at 4444 were doing thier first master mission and were killed outright by over 12-15 Overt Master Pilots.Even when asked nicely to allow them to do the missions these overt master pilots got hostile and said some things not-printable here in this forum.Even CS refused ingame to stop the griefing.
As usual you devs really screwed up big time with this.How in the heck can players make master pilots when other master pilots are killing them and preventing mission completion?
Forced PVP is a bad idea. (I personally do not like forced PVP, and only reason I stayed with SWG was for JTLS, but may cancel account and I know there are hundreds of players who may do the same if the griefing is not stopped).
Several possible solutions.
#1: Make it so that only Master Pilots can do PVP with other Master Pilots
#2: Have the option for players who do not want to PVP at all, allow Coverts or Neutrals into Kessel/Deepspace.
#3: The 75% PVP damage reduction that is in the ground game during PVP should be applied to space (Kessel/Deepspace)
Thx.
Two questions for you... how many players is a "bunch"? And why didn't you kill them first? It is a PVP free zone after all.
SupaPook
Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:03 pm
#25
Lets see Rama.
"1: Make it so that only Master Pilots can do PVP with other Master Pilots"
(There are lots of people in this game, who by the way, ALSO pay for it, who would want pvp before they grind the millions of xp)
"2: Have the option for players who do not want to pvp at all, allow coverts or Nuetrals into Kessel/DeepSpace"
(Theres a great big warning that your going into a pvp enabled zone. If you want to be a master pilot, you have to deal with the consequences. This game has already been carebeared for the noob player to the max, if you carebear a game too much, the hard core players leave. Who do you think it is that keeps a game going, the casual player who quits for days at a time because of some trivial item, or the hard cores who keep vendors up, keep guilds going, do the story lines religiiously?"
"3: The 75% Damage Reduction that is in the ground game during PVP should be applied to space."
(This expansion has been live for a piddly amount of time, and your ALREADY making assumptions. Most people dont have reverse engineered uber components yet, in fact, I would venture to say that most people dont even have really nice gear on. If you take down the damage, your going to turn space into a item level war instead of a skill level war. Frankly most people are IN space because they are sick of losing on the ground just because they havent tossed out millions on uber gear and ground out the FOTM."
If you want master pilot, dont accept your mission, go to the PVP zone, and then start spamming "ITS MY RIGHT NOT TO BE ATTACKED IN THIS PVP ZONE BECAUSE I AM TEH PAYORRRZ AND I WANTZ MY GAME EXACTLY THE WAY I WANTZ IT."
Heres some hints.
1: Take some friends, they can watch your back, and distract the PVPers, as well as helping you clear the mission faster.
2: Do it at off times. I was in Kessel and Deep Space last nite early in the morning, and there wasnt a single bloody person there. If people are wandering into the PVP zones at high traffic times and being MAD because there are people there attacking, then thats their problem.
If you have an MMORPG with NO forced pvp, then you will have almost NO pvp. People by nature do not like to voluntarily lose. As is ALREADY the case with this game, pvp usually consists of one side achieving overwhelming force after choosing voluntarily to pvp. There is more balance in a pvp situation when it is unconsentual pvp, rather than people being able to sit there and prep, and prep, and prep, and prep, until they have virtually assured their victory before they even click the declare button.
I played Ultima for 7 years, and their system of attackable anywhere, anytime in the pvp zone, has worked for 7 years.
You step through that gate, you have a chance of dying. People know that, and people accept it. Its simply becuase this game is more mainstream, that there are carebears in here in the forums crying bloody murder because its not EverCrap and they cant just sit there and beat mindlessly on NPC's all day long to their hearts content.
Personally I find PVP to be the endgame, and frankly, the only POINT to an mmorpg. What does pitting your character against an NPC do for you? What do you achieve? Nothing meaningful.
I'm reminded of an old atari commercial.
Theres an atari cartridge, with a sentence under it. "This opponent is programmed to attack you with a powerful and difficult strategy forcing you to be skilled in your defense"
Then theres a crazy haired gamer with wild eyes staring at you, with the sentence "This opponent is programmed to tear your arms off and beat you to death with them"
"Which would you rather play against?"
That pretty much sums it up for me. You can fight a bot, or you can fight a person. Besides, the Ace pilots dont even have any advantage over the 4 4 4 4 pilots, since just about anyone can be taken out in a few shots. Instead of crying, why not simply take THEM out first.
Shaganar
Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:06 pm
#26
Who are they and on which server? There are other ways of getting ppl back...