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Thread: DEVS Ship mass changes won't be retroactive? This is unacceptable
sirsri
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:26 am
#14
26 million isn't a great amount of money really. It seems that way, but for the first handfull on a server its not. There are weapons on valcyn that on occasion make 35-40 million (obviously extremely good ones), that sort of thing.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
Ackdel
Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:55 am
#15
truewildman wrote:
In beta, when they changed the masses on components, they couldn't change the masses on components already looted or crafted. This is because of the way the database is set up. It would be a helluva nightmare to go in and try to find every chassis or component and change the mass. The result would be a cacaphony of some that have been changed, and some not, and some incorrectly....a nightmare.
There isn't a blanket program to change the masses on the chassis already crafted.
They've made retroactive nerfs several times to datapad items in the history of the game (droids' armor and HAM, pets' armor, HAM, CL). There's no reason they can't do so again for an un-nerf.
Lilleth
Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am
#16
I think its because the mass of a ship is decaying with every "death". So its not a fix number like a HAM of a pet.
philius_MD
Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:56 am
#17
Lilleth wrote:I think its because the mass of a ship is decaying with every "death". So its not a fix number like a HAM of a pet.
mass doesnt decay, just the HP
Voodez
Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:39 am
#19
They must be retro-active surely? I can only afford to progress through shipwright by selling chassis's i have build on the way to buy new resources - nobody will buy them if they are totally outdated and again, as bloody usual the only people to profit will be the trillionaires...
By making it like this you are costing the large majority of decent shipwrights an estimated 5 million credits each devs - come on, have a heart.
Maulibaer
Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:03 am
#20
Maulibaer wrote:
Hey, why not make a sort of trade in at Shipwrights trainer like you made it with the pets?
Trade in would be for a upper-grade standard model at least, but if you are smart you could give us (like by the pets) some special lookin' chassis (Maybe with a different texture), that would be cool an would add some more color to JTL. It would also be a sort of bonus for all the early buyers....
That could be a solution.
Or if you not able to change the status, give us at least some money back, maybe:
100k for a tier 1 chassis
200k for a tier 2 chassis
And so on
Don't know the prices of Multiplayer Ships......
For a Firesparay that MUST be about 5 mil minimum - should be more, maybe 10 mil.....
Eldana wrote:
I also would suggest to implement the same mechanism as with the pet trade in.
Cause we are talking here not about 10 or 15k credits.
These chassis are expensive causethey need tons of resources.
And I know some shipwrights that would have to replace chassis worth several millions of resources.
Thx to cover me up here!
But maybe my list is to low, it really should be discussed first....
And naturally it would be better to do it retro active, best would be with a procentical rise of the old mass....
Cry4Dawn
Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:41 am
#21
sirsri wrote:
26 million isn't a great amount of money really. It seems that way, but for the first handfull on a server its not. There are weapons on valcyn that on occasion make 35-40 million (obviously extremely good ones), that sort of thing.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
No matter HOW rich you are, 26 mil is a lot cash no matter what
Aden_Nak
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:32 pm
#22
SWG has always had this problem. It has to do with the way the database is structured. It allows them a LOT of customization and freedom, but as a result, they have a much harder time making blanket changes to non-static attributes. For example, when they kept jerking around the T-21 Rifle a year or so ago, they were able to jockey it's AP rating easily, and have it be retroactive. Because on every T-21 in the game, the AP was set not by the crafting capacity but by the built-in parameter.
Since Mass is a crafting-adjustable quality, they cannot simply issue a "blanket change" to every chasis already out there. The system does not work that way, from a data structure level. It sucks that instead of happening to a Rifle, it happens to a starship. But it happens all the time. The database allows for SO MUCH freedom, that conformity is often impossible.
Since Mass is a crafting-adjustable quality, they cannot simply issue a "blanket change" to every chasis already out there. The system does not work that way, from a data structure level. It sucks that instead of happening to a Rifle, it happens to a starship. But it happens all the time. The database allows for SO MUCH freedom, that conformity is often impossible.
Cobra2468
Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:59 pm
#23
500k for an oppressor? your lucky to find one for 1mill where i come from.
i think a simple solution to get around experimentation and resource quality issues would be to increase the mass by adding to the old ones what the new ones have. so lest say my oppressor weighs in at 151105 and the new ones are about 50k heavier... just add 50k to my oppressors mass so its now 201105...
Message Edited by Cobra2468 on 11-12-2004 12:02 PM
willismaximus
Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:10 am
#24
Cry4Dawn wrote:
sirsri wrote:
26 million isn't a great amount of money really. It seems that way, but for the first handfull on a server its not. There are weapons on valcyn that on occasion make 35-40 million (obviously extremely good ones), that sort of thing.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
No matter HOW rich you are, 26 mil is a lot cash no matter what
No**** . . . I almost fell out of my chair when he said that. I've been playing since launch, and I have 3 million right now, which is the most I've ever had. What's worse is that the firespray is the only single seater us privateers get as masters. Guess I'll be flying my tier 4 Rihk for the next 6 months.
Cry4Dawn
Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:12 am
#25
willismaximus wrote:
Cry4Dawn wrote:
sirsri wrote:
26 million isn't a great amount of money really. It seems that way, but for the first handfull on a server its not. There are weapons on valcyn that on occasion make 35-40 million (obviously extremely good ones), that sort of thing.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
No matter HOW rich you are, 26 mil is a lot cash no matter what
No**** . . . I almost fell out of my chair when he said that. I've been playing since launch, and I have 3 million right now, which is the most I've ever had. What's worse is that the firespray is the only single seater us privateers get as masters. Guess I'll be flying my tier 4 Rihk for the next 6 months.
How do you like the Tier 4 Rihk over the Dune Lizard?? Everyone say stay with the dune lizard and I totally see why. that ship rocks
willismaximus
Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:23 am
#26
Cry4Dawn wrote:
willismaximus wrote:
Cry4Dawn wrote:
sirsri wrote:
26 million isn't a great amount of money really. It seems that way, but for the first handfull on a server its not. There are weapons on valcyn that on occasion make 35-40 million (obviously extremely good ones), that sort of thing.
Sure the ship only requires 150k resources, but you aren't paying for resources with the firespray. You're paying for the time of some poor bugger to manage many thousands of pieces of inventory to RE them. I've been doing it for a few of us in my guild and I could quite seriously have spent four or 5 hours a day just sorting and REing gear, and I'd be lucky to get a disk every couple of days. So for 26 million you're getting probably 80 hours of someones work (of course they get 3 of these total), plus, and somewhat more to the point, the prestige of being the first to own it.
I disagree that they couldn't convert the items in beta. They could have developed the tools to do it, but being beta it wasn't worth the time, and they would have needed to try and convert every single item in the database. The processing on that alone would be hours. While its true the whole of the itemization system needs a revamp, we're talking about now probably a few hundred ships per server, the scale and nature of the problem are somewhat different.
No matter HOW rich you are, 26 mil is a lot cash no matter what
No**** . . . I almost fell out of my chair when he said that. I've been playing since launch, and I have 3 million right now, which is the most I've ever had. What's worse is that the firespray is the only single seater us privateers get as masters. Guess I'll be flying my tier 4 Rihk for the next 6 months.
How do you like the Tier 4 Rihk over the Dune Lizard?? Everyone say stay with the dune lizard and I totally see why. that ship rocks
After Tier 3, 70K mass simply isn't enough. 130K (Rihk)barley is. I gladly sacrifice speed for power. Getting used to dog-fighting in a bomber takes some time, but once you do, you'll own in PvE. PvP is a different story though.