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Thread: PvP damage in space is just fine.
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Litushot
Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:51 pm
#14
I just wanna point out one thing in this topic: the original poster is RIGHT. He has the right to compare Star Wars with RL because dogfighting is dogfighting. It is always the same, no matter what time period you're in. In the movies it always adds a bit of suspense when the good guys are being chased and their shields are going down, only to be saved in the nick of time. So please, we are talking about dogfighting in Star Wars the game, NOT the movie where the good guys win the entire time. SO here's my advice to you naysayers: learn to dodge and play defensively. The best defense IS a good offense, because it keeps ur enemy on his toes and allows you to plan ahead and take the pressure off of yourself. Know where the "sweet spot" is on your fighter, the throttle level where you get the most turning ability while still maintaining good overall speed.Plus, many of the ships created for JtL are for PvE also, not just PvP. The B-Wing is gonna be used to kill ISDs and whatnot, I mean c'mon- they WERE bombers. And bombers are not made for air-to-air combat. Well, some bomber pilots may disagree, but whatever. The truth is, and I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but if you don't like going fast for PvP, then though luck for you, because that is the world of dogfighting: who has the fastest, most agile fighter out there, who also just happens to know how to use it. Now you don't have skills for PvP and PvE. You must adapt. If you wish to PvP, grab your best dogfighting plane. If ya wanna PvE, grab a couple of friends, hop in ur multiplayer ship, and blast those Black Suns or whatever. So saddle up and quit flamin' the poor dude 
.
./rant off
ShadowSaber5
Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:52 pm
#15
i have to disagree.
if its balanced then you're saying a 1/1/1/1 pilot should be able to destroy a master in 1 - 2 hits. That doesn't make any sense. A master should be able to beat the 1/1/1/1 without a problem (or at least high a high chance and beating the opponent) Im not saying they HAVE to win, the master could just suck, but then how did they get master?
Also, with 1 - 2 shot kills, its basically a standoff. Whoever's shots hit first wins. Space battles should have much longer battles than that. Then actual skill is involved and much more fun to have a battle last more than a few seconds. but hey thats just my 2 cents
if its balanced then you're saying a 1/1/1/1 pilot should be able to destroy a master in 1 - 2 hits. That doesn't make any sense. A master should be able to beat the 1/1/1/1 without a problem (or at least high a high chance and beating the opponent) Im not saying they HAVE to win, the master could just suck, but then how did they get master?
Also, with 1 - 2 shot kills, its basically a standoff. Whoever's shots hit first wins. Space battles should have much longer battles than that. Then actual skill is involved and much more fun to have a battle last more than a few seconds. but hey thats just my 2 cents
ShortTimer
Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:01 pm
#16
hanshadow wrote:
Ok, wrong, wrong, then wrong again.
This reply is so subtle in its argument, yetat the same time beautiful andcomplexwith the poetic flourish it concludes with.
Toguro
Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:01 am
#17
none of your points are validbecause you aremaking referance to RL air combat logic. this is not, and has nothing to do with RL. its star wars with completly different rules and physics. it should take around 10-20 shots in PvP to kill an enemy fighter and 20-30 to kill a heavy bomber. this way, PvP would be much more interesting, intense, and most of all fun for everyone.
-Staberinde-
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:47 am
#18
ShortTimer wrote:
First of all it's realistic. In real life if you are cruising around in your F-16 and get hit bya missile you're probably either dead or needing to eject. Sure a F-16 doesn't have shields but the SW technology would compensate for that so it would only take a few hits to bring down a fighter. In the various movies we see fighters getting one and two shotted.
Second it make PvP more of a challange. You'll not only haveto think about what you're doing but you'll have to think FAST. This isn't a FPS, it's a flight sim and flight sims require thought not just spraying a room with your BFG-2000. Just like IRL space combat should stay "first look, first shot, first kill." This is also why it only takes 5 confirmed kills to make you an ace IRL.
Third it levels the playing field. Sure I may only be in a tier 3 x-wing with tier 4 equipment and a master with lvl 10 equipment can one shot but, but I can 1 and 1/2 or 2 shot him in return. This makes it easier for lower level people to participate in PvP wihtout being completly outclassed just because they didn't grind as fast as the next guy.
First off, since when did F 16s have shields? Are you honestly trying to compare an X Wing to a real plane? Its like trying to say that the Death Star isnt realistic because if you fire a laser at the ground the planet doesnt blow up.
Secondly where is the challenge in 1 shot PvP? All that is required is to fly directly at your target and spray fire all over the place and hope you hit through blind luck. You could train a monkey to do it.
Lastly yes it levels the playing fields, but what is the point in leveling if the Tier 1 ship is effective as the Masters, with your logic PvP would be better if a Novice Marksman could kill a Jedi Master. In the one point where you could have used a real life example and not sounded like an idiot you skillfully fail to. If you put an F 16 up against a Sopwith Camel, who do you thinks going to win?
One Star.
Felix_Deco
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:18 am
#19
well on multipassanger ships you mine aswell take away those component panels on the walls becouse you cant use em in pvp anyway... there is no way you can run around and fix thing as it only takes a few shots to drop you..
DeathToVader
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:08 am
#20
Quoted
"none of your points are validbecause you aremaking referance to RL air combat logic. this is not, and has nothing to do with RL. its star wars with completly different rules and physics. it should take around 10-20 shots in PvP to kill an enemy fighter and 20-30 to kill a heavy bomber. this way, PvP would be much more interesting, intense, and most of all fun for everyone."
Well, I dont expect many people to know this , but George Lucas has always said that he wanted the space combat to be like dogfights in ww2. The filmers even used ww2 gun camera footage from U.S. planes in fights against the japanese. That was his passion growing up and he wanted to make the fights in space more interesting .
Even Lucas knows its not REAL, but thats how he wanted it and thats how it is in the game.
If I had a scanner I would scan the sources of the late 70's and 80's direct from lucas.
-Staberinde-
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:16 am
#21
Thats not how it is in game, WW2 fighters could get peppered with machine gun fire and still fly home, it would take lucky hits to full lines or critical moveing parts to knock them out of the sky alltogether. Look at WW2 bombers, Lancasters could keep flying on 1 enginethey would come back from bombing runs riddled with holes. Im not saying we should have to hit particular parts, but 1 shot kills are not what Lucas intended. Go and play XvT online and see how JTL should be.
Litushot
Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:03 pm
#22
ShadowSaber5 wrote:
i have to disagree.
if its balanced then you're saying a 1/1/1/1 pilot should be able to destroy a master in 1 - 2 hits. That doesn't make any sense. A master should be able to beat the 1/1/1/1 without a problem (or at least high a high chance and beating the opponent) Im not saying they HAVE to win, the master could just suck, but then how did they get master?
Also, with 1 - 2 shot kills, its basically a standoff. Whoever's shots hit first wins. Space battles should have much longer battles than that. Then actual skill is involved and much more fun to have a battle last more than a few seconds. but hey thats just my 2 cents
Sorry, but you are missing the entire point of JtL's combat system: BOXES DON'T MATTER!!! I could be a low lvl 1-1-1-1 guy and blow away a combat ace, because with the right amount of time and friends, any pilot profession is easy to master. So please, stop comparing boxes to skill level--the ACE title only means you mastered a boxes of a profession, not the profession itself (got it? :smileytongue
. Like I said earlier,the faster jets will be better at dogfighting than a B-Wing will be, because a B-Wing is meant to be a HEAVY FIGHTER, and thus combats gunships and cruisers with greater efficiency. And you WILL die in two shots with any plane you attack, so just because you wantspace PvP to turn into the ground game-- with long battles of people relying on certain weapons--don't try and convince people otherwise.Most people do not see that the art of dogfighting is turning at the right angles to get in that perfect shot so you can live another day. Now people are starting to realize that while the big-arse bombers are good against NPC cruisers, they are not good against Interceptors driven by PCs. Why? Role differenciation (word?). Bomber pilots must rely on fighter escorts to get them to their target so they can then dmg the large targets. Y-Wings are simply not comparable to Aggressors for this very reason--plus the Y-Wing is older and practically outdated.The reason some dogfights last long is that each pilot is doing his beast to avoid the line of fire and kill at the same time,and when ya have a bunch of those guys flying against each other, it's gonna be long.You can't go head to head with another ACE and expect to not die, lol! Now, I believe that you can compare the basics of dogfighting and dmg between flight sims and JtL, but ya can't compare dmg types. Technology is a biotch, ain't it ? Also, you might be thinking of naval battles which used to last long because of the lack of accuracy (for the most part). Space cruisers ARE the naval dreadnaughts, so battles between those will last longer than dogfighting will. Dogfighting the way it is is fun-- it gets your blood pumping and makes for an exciting time, even IF you die. Because, c'mon, even if ya die, it'll be a helluva story to tell if your dogfight lasted five minutes, right?
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