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Juusman wrote:

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Slarus wrote:

Now, I know petitions are useless. I hope they are not read by the Devs and acted upon, because that would put power in the loadest forum lurkers, and not necesarily in the hands of the gamers. However, even though these are useless, I figured that since there were so many people signing petitions to get the Master mission out of Kessel, I want to see how much support there is for keeping it where it is.

Before JTL not one thread asking for PvP to be a part of any profession, but any inclusion of PvP as part of the game content always generates complaints. Every prue or highly PvPMMOs has lower subscribers then optional or no PvP MMOs.

So those two facts pretty much spell PvP is liked by some but is not the majority of desire by any MMO.

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/sign

Personally, I think you should be perma overt if you are flying a rebel or imperial ship in space. I don't particularly like they way the devs implemented the pilot professions. I think if you're a master pilot, you're a master pilot, regardless of who you're fighting for. I should be able to leave the rebels and join the hutts and still be a master pilot.

Slarus.. last time I checked, you can't get attacked in SWG/JTL unless you declare yourself overt, are TEF'd, or go into clearly known PvP zones. Seems pretty consentual to me..

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From what i understand of the master missions, someone can correct me if im wrong, you have to declare prior to doing the mission whether you want toor not it's a prerequisite to beginning the mission. It isn't you consenting to pvp its you being forced to declare to do a pve mission which in the ground game you never have to do. I'm all for pvp at a time and choosing to suit me and not during a pve mission.

SCM T'R

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hrmpf2 wrote:

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Massadonious wrote:

I roleplay a war by fighting player characters of the opposite faction.

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That isn't roleplaying, just fighting. Try pen and paper with a real gamemaster and you'll learn roleplay.
Oh and not signed, I dislike the attitude of most PvP'ers.

Message Edited by hrmpf2 on 11-09-2004 11:21 AM

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THIS IS A BAD IDEA, The master mission needs to be moved.

You GRIEFERS (and yes your griefers), who have made master pilot go to kessel just to gank a 4-4-4-4 so you pat yourself on the back and say how great you are.

If all you "master pilots" can not tell the difference between another master and a 4-4-4-4 trying to a mission then your true morons.

The only reason you go to kessel is to grief 4-4-4-4 pilots to make a difficult almost impossible.

You want to keep kessel pvp and the master mission in it so you can GRIEF others.

If all you griefers truely want is to pvp other masters then move to the wildzone and fight another master but then you might lose and your ego could not tkae that could it.

YOUR IN KESSEL BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GRIEF IF YOU DID NOT WANT TO GREIF YOU'D BE IN THE WILDZONE.

YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY YOUR ACTION YOU HAVE ANOTHER ZONE TO PVP IN, 4-4-4-4 PILOTS DO NOT GET A CHOICE AND YOUR CHOICE IS TO GRIEF THEM.

Do not try to BS (note does not mean black sun) me or any of the rest of us who truly know you for what you are.

Message Edited by Shadwe on 11-09-2004 03:10 AM

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Massadonious wrote:

Sure it is. Some people roleplay as a Stormtrooper, I roleplay as a regular Imperial trooper who is trusted with the task to eliminating the Rebellion.

I don't think people roll dice in D&D to determine what outfit their going to wear that night.

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Ah yes, the dice play. What people use dice for is determining situations impossible to roleplay. I can't roleplay "hit the evil knight in the head for, hmmm, hang on GM, yes, 20 damage!", if I decided what I wanted to hit for, it'd need some really strong personal character to not get too good to yourself, hence people use dice, simplest way to avoid favoring anything being it's random.

Now I'm sure we can agree random outcome on dices isn't roleplay eh? You kinda hinted at that with rolling for clothes to wear. What you do is go into space, start rolling dices on how much damage your weapons does, what angel the opponents happen to appear at, and that they don't get the first strike on you. Yes, you may even add, hey, you're a great pilot, better than the rest, yet you're still reduced to rolling dice and using wits to get a better positioning, nothing roleplay-like at all. Fair enough, claming your selfemposed mission to be roleplaying your imperial self is fine, yet once you get up there, you're nothing but a dice roller and not a roleplayer.

As for only master pilots being attackable, that doesn't cut it for me either. I don't want the pilot aces potentially, helping me master on my PvE mission, to be shot down, just because my master mission happens to be in a PvP enabled zone. Hence, take it out of the PvP enabled zone and leave that place to people who actually want to PvP.

Message Edited by hrmpf2 on 11-09-2004 11:58 AM

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Shadwe wrote:
THIS IS A BAD IDEA, The master mission needs to be moved.

You GRIEFERS (and yes your griefers), who have made master pilot go to kessel just to gank a 4-4-4-4 so you pat yourself on the back and say how great you are.

If all you "master pilots" can not tell the difference between another master and a 4-4-4-4 trying to a mission then your true morons.

The only reason you go to kessel is to grief 4-4-4-4 pilots to make a difficult almost impossible.

You want to keep kessel pvp and the master mission in it so you can GRIEF others.

If all you griefers truely want is to pvp other masters then move to the wildzone and fight another master but then you might lose and your ego could not tkae that could it.

YOUR IN KESSEL BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GRIEF IF YOU DID NOT WANT TO GREIF YOU'D BE IN THE WILDZONE.

YOU CAN NOT JUSTIFY YOUR ACTION YOU HAVE ANOTHER ZONE TO PVP IN, 4-4-4-4 PILOTS DO NOT GET A CHOICE AND YOUR CHOICE IS TO GRIEF THEM.

Do not try to BS (note does not mean black sun) me or any of the rest of us who truly know you for what you are.

Message Edited by Shadwe on 11-09-2004 03:10 AM

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Just out of interest, why are roleplaying and PvP mutually exclusive? Im part of an RP Association on Chimaera, and Ill soon be forming an RP Squadron of Imperial Aces; what do you think we are going to do in space? Well, once we get to master we are going to go out there and kill things, most likely players. Why? Because its more challenging.

If people are against PvP THAT MUCH, then what the hell, let them grind the 7.5 mil XP for the master box and do the corvette mission in normal space. But if that happens, impliment a 50% PvP damage reduction and allow those of us who want to the oppertunity to get master by making 5 player kills, then blowing up the corvette in Kessel.

Oh, and if that happens, the PvE folks dont get to call themselves Aces. They get a Master [faction] Pilot tag, those of us who do the PvP mission get [faction] Ace. That way everyone is happy; the PvE folks dont have to put up with PvP, but those of us willing to take the risk are distinguished with the Ace title.

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GadonThek wrote:
If people are against PvP THAT MUCH, then what the hell, let them grind the 7.5 mil XP for the master box and do the corvette mission in normal space. But if that happens, impliment a 50% PvP damage reduction and allow those of us who want to the oppertunity to get master by making 5 player kills, then blowing up the corvette in Kessel.

Oh, and if that happens, the PvE folks dont get to call themselves Aces. They get a Master [faction] Pilot tag, those of us who do the PvP mission get [faction] Ace. That way everyone is happy; the PvE folks dont have to put up with PvP, but those of us willing to take the risk are distinguished with the Ace title.

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50% damage reduction on pvp i do agree with as the system at moment is seriously misbalanced and its all one shot kills. I still want to do the missions but those who got master early should give everyone else a fair shot at getting it due to them not having to face pvp players in Kessel as they were first.

As tfor the current Ace pilots to now turn round and try to prevent players getting Ace titles or havinganother option of titlebecause they were there first and had little or no pvp isn't fair. Everyone should have the same situation as the early Ace pilots had i.e. little or no pvp opposition to talk about.

SCM T'R

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GadonThek wrote:
Just out of interest, why are roleplaying and PvP mutually exclusive? Im part of an RP Association on Chimaera, and Ill soon be forming an RP Squadron of Imperial Aces; what do you think we are going to do in space? Well, once we get to master we are going to go out there and kill things, most likely players. Why? Because its more challenging.

If people are against PvP THAT MUCH, then what the hell, let them grind the 7.5 mil XP for the master box and do the corvette mission in normal space. But if that happens, impliment a 50% PvP damage reduction and allow those of us who want to the oppertunity to get master by making 5 player kills, then blowing up the corvette in Kessel.

Oh, and if that happens, the PvE folks dont get to call themselves Aces. They get a Master [faction] Pilot tag, those of us who do the PvP mission get [faction] Ace. That way everyone is happy; the PvE folks dont have to put up with PvP, but those of us willing to take the risk are distinguished with the Ace title.

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/agree

/fivestar

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Kaleborn wrote:

"I know, I just like the idea that it is really really hard to get master, so that it means something."

Lowca server character name: Leo Therf

I have a lot of carebear type tendencies when it comes to 'protecting' the average gamer in a PvP environment, especially if their mission is a PvE one, but I think I'm of the same mindset when it comes to a "Master" level title or badge.

That's why I'm currently in favor of having a seperate-but-equal designation for PvE Master and PvP Master. That way when you see someone wearing the PvP Master title it really DOES mean something (from a PvP perspective anyway). Then leave it to the playerbase to put unofficial 'weight' to the relative 'merits' of either designation (we all know which Master would be considered the most elite. And rightly so).

The way it is now you just don't know if they are a Master who went through days of hell dueling hordes of players to squeak out their last mission, and are better pilots for it. Or they and a couple buddies snuck in at just the right time and got the corvette kill in 30 minutes without any PvP incident (or however long it would take).

By the same token, if nothing changes, i'm inclined to give more 'value' to this generic "Master" title to those who complete it in the coming weeks vs those who did it in a PvP-lite era of JTL. Since you know they probably had to use more pilot skill and group tactics to survive the mission. Having seperate titles, and missions to go along with it, just makes it cut and dried just who it is your talking to in the cantina...or facing up in the stars.

K.

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Very well said.

/sign

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GadonThek wrote:
Just out of interest, why are roleplaying and PvP mutually exclusive?

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They certainly aren't. You and your guild can hold pre-flight meetings, discuss tactical approches, go overt, slander the rebel scum/imperial dictators/neutral smugglers, put on your respective flight suits, yell commands at eachother and a hoist of other RP elements. What you can't do is go into space, do the dice rolling, and claim the PvE'ers you killed where part of your RP campaign, mainly because you aren't in the same campaign. The PvE'ers have been sent on a mission by an NPC, unfortunately for them their campaign takes place in the same aerospace as yours, but it's still a very different one. By killing them off, you're imposing your campaign on theirs, something which I highly doubt will ever work. I can't just come up with a real life counterpart example, but thing is, some (apparently many judging from replies and stars given in these sort of threads) play this for the PvE experience, mixing the two without concent causes problems.

I've yet to see anyone mention they like the current system, because it added additional excitment when they did their master mission. Of course they'll come now that I mention it, but had this been added before, I might have been able to agree, however since this point hasn't even been brought up, well, it's now void.

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hrmpf2 wrote:

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Massadonious wrote:

I roleplay a war by fighting player characters of the opposite faction.

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That isn't roleplaying, just fighting. Try pen and paper with a real gamemaster and you'll learn roleplay.
Oh and not signed, I dislike the attitude of most PvP'ers.

Message Edited by hrmpf2 on 11-09-2004 11:21 AM

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