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Thread: The death of kessel
Cuality
Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:58 pm
#14
Slarus wrote:
That doesn't mean it had to be a PvP only zone, dont get me wrong I support Kessel being PvP but this isn't a selling point.
i was stating what kessel is. and what it will be.
Ahh the old "PvP is the only challenge" excuse, prove it, just prove it? No one can be challenged by PvE, well I can prove it, My roommate can barley kill Teir 3s at 3322 and many others have trouble too, fewer people find PvE no challenge then find it a challenge.
Most people aren't challenged by PvE. And if you get killed in a pve fight you don't really care. PvP is a different ballgame. you can tell the person you fought: good fight. or go to hell if you wanted. PvP is personal. The hardest fight that i have had in this game is when i decided to take the corvette on my own. Lasted about half an hour, killed about 45 ships and took the corvette to about 50% on systems before a barrage of missiles hit me. i died with 15 red dots flashing around me.
No your wrong what it means is people who REALLY want to PvP will do so, if no one does then that shows PvP is not popular. This isn't hard to declare, and it will prove how unpopular PvP really is. Most people wne to Kessel to XP and do their master mission, now we can see who really wants PvP.
PvP is what made kessel dangerous. Now kessel will be filled by people 2-2-2-2 and higher who are just powering their way through the grind. Kessel used to be empty, now it will be dathomir/ dantooine/ endor with black holes.
Also they acknowledged that it gives campers an advantage and it doesn't test anything but how much money you spent on your PC, to prevent lag. TH addressed functionality directly as one reason for the change.
TH couldn't address his ass if he had both hands tied behind his back. They changed it because of the people who were going master and couldn't because the zone was camped by pvpers. Those who wanted to pvp actually were telling them to change it as well as those who didn't want to pvp. We all said to get it out of kessel or give another way to master. Load camping is easily solved with a load timer. Server side lag is low enough so that if you dial back your display settings and are running something a little more powerful than a pentium 2, you should be able to keep up.
Kessel I think will go PvP again when they can figure out how they are gonna redo the Master mission and how to address zone camping, two of the biggest issues, but it can't happen overnight and here we are at the stop gap solution.
Kessel will stay PvE. once they have it in live, they will never change it. If you want a PvP zone, you will have to go to deep space. The devs have already proven they will take the path of least resistance. Expect a few different things changed with deep space, maybe more NPCs and some sort of reward or something. But kessel will no longer be a place for people to go if they want to pvp.
This was the only post that isn't a flame that i bother to address, as for the rest of the posts:
I am not a griefer. When i have flown in kessel i will not turn to attack someone until they get within 2k of me. i have left people alone as they have fought NPCs unless they make a direct move towards me.
this is space. as much as one or 2 shot fights are a pain... they are actually following continuity. but for sake of a fun game, they should have balanced the armor and shields around the power of the weapons. instead we can expect a % reduction of damage we do and no doubt when the shipwrights start pumping out heavier shields, expect to have half hour to 45 minute dogfights.
the point of this post and the original post... is to point out that kessel now is on the same level as dantooine/ dathomir/ endor. there is no reason to avoid the system and there is no reason to go to the system aside for standard xp and loot. the true danger has been taken out and is now only available for the rare overts or if you can master your profession and go to deep space.
DarthMinos
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:43 pm
#15
I think this was the right short term solution. Its not the best long term solution. In the long run, they need to create a PvP zone for players of all levels. Or, they need to find a way to get the Master Mission out of Kessel. Also, I disagree that the best loot should only be available to those that are willing to PvP. PvP'ers are a minority in this game. Everyone should have the same access to the best loot.
I think what played a significant role is that some, not all, of the PvP'ers insisted on camping the hyperspace points and killing players as they loaded. So, at least in part, some of the blame must fall on those PvP'ers that insisted on griefing.
oxe
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:44 pm
#16
That really sucks, Kessel was really fun with no rules...
The master mission was a real challenge with big stress, now it will only be a little fight vs a capital ship...
The whinners wins again
(
The master mission was a real challenge with big stress, now it will only be a little fight vs a capital ship...
The whinners wins again
(
GreatWarrior
Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:47 pm
#17
I say they change the badge for those who get ace after the pve system is setup... ".. has become a _______ Squadron ace due to whinning". I had to pvp to work though my missions. I died several times and it took me a few days, but it was worth it. These new aces will not have the experience of a challenge and shouldn't even be trusted with an ace title if they have to whine to achieve it.
Cuality
Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:18 pm
#18
Slarus wrote:
Most people aren't challenged by PvE. And if you get killed in a pve fight you don't really care. PvP is a different ballgame. you can tell the person you fought: good fight. or go to hell if you wanted. PvP is personal. The hardest fight that i have had in this game is when i decided to take the corvette on my own. Lasted about half an hour, killed about 45 ships and took the corvette to about 50% on systems before a barrage of missiles hit me. i died with 15 red dots flashing around me.
This isn't true, it is actually in JTL quite the opposite, most people find at least some challenge in PvE, this board doesn't even represent a minor scientific sample of the gaming community. Before Kessel got changed to PvE No one said they could solo a Vette, and I highly doubt it was cause of other players, now all of a sudden EVERYONE and my grandmother can solo Vettes, SDs and everything in Kessel at the same time.
Funny how this revelation just occured, I mean all these people saying this obviously did it during the PvP time since PvE isn't till next week, and if you ALREADY soloed it, then PvP didn't do the job or your represent a VERY small group of people who do well in these games.
You are right. the boards don't represent the flight skill of the community. Most people who are in ahazi i regularly see them taking a gunboat solo. I have fought against 16 people who were in kessel soloing gunboats and/or fighters. i myself have soloed them. now which system does this speak ill against? PvE or PvP. It is not the PvP player's job to keep people from soloing ships... it is the devs job to make them hard enough so they aren't soloable. i'm glad you can find a challenge in killing a bot, most people would prefer a flesh and blood person.
PvP is what made kessel dangerous. Now kessel will be filled by people 2-2-2-2 and higher who are just powering their way through the grind. Kessel used to be empty, now it will be dathomir/ dantooine/ endor with black holes.
Obviously this isn't the case with the flood of soloers that have already soloed the entire Kessel zone at half damage with a head wind.
the people who have soloed things in kessel did so while having to face the very real fear that someone could be gunning for them. without that fear, there will be no reservations about going to the zone.
TH couldn't address his ass if he had both hands tied behind his back. They changed it because of the people who were going master and couldn't because the zone was camped by pvpers. Those who wanted to pvp actually were telling them to change it as well as those who didn't want to pvp. We all said to get it out of kessel or give another way to master. Load camping is easily solved with a load timer. Server side lag is low enough so that if you dial back your display settings and are running something a little more powerful than a pentium 2, you should be able to keep up.
You can call TH a liar but he said that those were all reasons, People being forced to PvP, Lag issues, camping issues, don't believe it that is fine.
People being forced to pvp is the ONLY issue, everything else is fixable with a hotfix or spending $30 for another stick of RAM.
Kessel will stay PvE. once they have it in live, they will never change it. If you want a PvP zone, you will have to go to deep space. The devs have already proven they will take the path of least resistance. Expect a few different things changed with deep space, maybe more NPCs and some sort of reward or something. But kessel will no longer be a place for people to go if they want to pvp.
Again conjecture only, we'll find out is all I can say.
True... i guess we can take the ground battlefields as examples... they shut them off in december because they promised they were revamping them. 11 months later and they have done nothing with them.
mkummer
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:43 am
#19
Massadonious wrote:
Don't give me that crap about going to deep space, because no one goes there. Don't give me that crap about "go overt", because no one else does.
If that is true, it is the prove that no one wants to pvp besides the griefers.
Massadonious
Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:54 am
#21
mkummer wrote:
Massadonious wrote:
Don't give me that crap about going to deep space, because no one goes there. Don't give me that crap about "go overt", because no one else does.
If that is true, it is the prove that no one wants to pvp besides the griefers.
First off, I want you to read this.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=145286
Secondly, no it does not. Entering Kessel meant not having to go overt and fly around for hours to find PvP action. Entering Kessel meant not having to pay extra prestige points to enter Deep Space.
I'm sorry that therewere griefers there to ruin others game play, but a lot of us just went there to find regular PvP.
Ezis
Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:00 am
#22
i can't believe you guys are so dense to think that you should be able to join a faction and not have to pvp... freelance pilot shouldn't be at risk of pvp, but rebels/imps should... this is the best content they've put in game so far, and now they just pull it away... i don't know about you guys, but i've made sure to put the word out on the corbantis server for the boneheads that are complaining and don't know what a true Ace Pilot is so they know when i'll be in kessel and they can do what they want to try to stop the mission, it'll still be successful... in fact, it would appear that we're going to time it at the same time as a rebel run on their corvette, only problem i have is that if the rebels get there first, i'll likely get load killed, however i will make it a point that the imps i take with me won'tstart the load killing
Slarus
Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:14 pm
#23
You are right. the boards don't represent the flight skill of the community. Most people who are in ahazi i regularly see them taking a gunboat solo. I have fought against 16 people who were in kessel soloing gunboats and/or fighters. i myself have soloed them. now which system does this speak ill against? PvE or PvP. It is not the PvP player's job to keep people from soloing ships... it is the devs job to make them hard enough so they aren't soloable. i'm glad you can find a challenge in killing a bot, most people would prefer a flesh and blood person.
It certainly doesn't prove PvP made the zone anymore challenging, not that I give a care about challenge I fought against forced PvP notany challenge. There is not regualr soling of gunboats on Ahazi you made a fatal error I play everyday on that sever I dont see or hear of regular soloing gunboats, in Kessel. Tier 4s in other zones yeah but not tier 5 sorry that is an exaggeration. Most people dont prefer PvP so how can they prefer attacking payers?
the people who have soloed things in kessel did so while having to face the very real fear that someone could be gunning for them. without that fear, there will be no reservations about going to the zone.
Hog wash, there clearly wasn;t enough reservation to have matter in the first place or no one would have tried it. You dont fear PvP, I dont fear it, I just hate it and I have gone there, solo even didn't take on gunboats or vettes though.
People being forced to pvp is the ONLY issue, everything else is fixable with a hotfix or spending $30 for another stick of RAM.
Ahh but that doesn't solve the problem at large, just per computer. $30 bucks wont solve the problem either won't even dent it. You seem to think that the Devs can put out fixes by snapping thier fingers, clearly you have no clue what it takes to fix even minor problems. I am often amazed at how fast they do correct issues then how slow, but then again I am not an person who demand instant gratification I realize it takes effort.
True... i guess we can take the ground battlefields as examples... they shut them off in december because they promised they were revamping them. 11 months later and they have done nothing with them.
Only time will tell.
MukeyMonkey
Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:27 pm
#24
It had to be done. Kessel was a griefer choke point. All it took was a few players to ruin the fun of many. That's a bad situation have in any Mmog. . At the end of the day people can still get their pvp once they've reached the level all others who pvping will be at in deep space. You've just lost your lambs to slaughter whilst they had their backs turned doing a missionand now you have to pvp against others who can give you afight back. Also name me one Mmog where high light mob contentis not camped by high level players for the goodies?
MukeyMonkey
Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:29 pm
#25
It had to be done. Kessel was a griefer choke point. All it took was a few players to ruin the fun of many. That's a bad situation have in any Mmog. . At the end of the day people can still get their pvp once they've reached the level all others who pvping will be at in deep space. You've just lost your lambs to slaughter whilst they had their backs turned doing a missionand now you have to pvp against others who can give you afight back. Also name me one Mmog where high light mob contentis not camped by high level players for the goodies?
Massadonious
Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:30 pm
#26
Slingblade37814 wrote:
anyone who is pissed about kessel going pve is a greifer....tons of places to pvp, go find them
Hey, the stereotype game again. JOY!!
All you PvE'ers are freaking carebears!
Now, wasen't that fun!
...
There were better solutions out there. I can name two that would of appeased everyone.
- PvP damage reduction.
- 60 second invunerablity loading in.
This would of given the "griefers" even less incentive to hang around.
- They could no longer camp the hyper point.
- It would take longer than10 seconds and 3 shots for someone to die.
Don't give me that crap about going to deep space, because no one goes there. Don't give me that crap about "go overt", because no one else does.
Well, we all know how things work around here, and this just confirms it.
Whining = results.
Sad.