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Thread: Kessel is just a symptom of the developers pov on PvP.
Ezis
Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:06 am
#14
what i really liked about this whole expansion was the fact that it finally gave a faction perk to whoever shows space dominance... we were looking for a way to hold an advantage for whichever faction could hold an area or capture a certain base or whatnot... kessel was this perfect opportunity. on my server, the imperials showed dominance, which meant that the rebels who needed to run the corvette missions not only had to deal with the vette and its escorts, it had to deal with us as well... instead of strategically stiking the area before a mission to open a hole in the imperial dominance long enough to complete the mission, they whined and complained about it being a pvp zone... personally, i like the edge this had given the game, if the rebels can dominate kessel, the imperials will get more failed corvette missions as the rebels kill us off and the rebels will complete more as the rebels in the area will assist with attacking their corvette... this is exactly what was going on and is why they are making kessel a pve zone...
thanks for giving us a reason to fight and take it away from us devs... you guys really are dillholes
Opiacee
Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:39 am
#15
we need a pvp server
where all factionned players are overt permanently, in ground and in space.
pvErs->happy
pvpers->happy
where all factionned players are overt permanently, in ground and in space.
pvErs->happy
pvpers->happy
Juusman
Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:47 am
#16
I have to agree with the orginal poster.
There is no point in PvP as the game currently stands. Many PvP players liked having the master mission in Kessel, because it actually made PvP worth something... the faction that controlled Kessel could get their pilots in to do the master mission. This would have created a lot of player interaction and co-operation, as well as inter-guild co-operation, as rebels/imperials/neutrals fight it out for control. It's highly unlikely that any faction would be able to control Kessel for long periods of time, so everyone would have been able to get in to do their missions eventually. It's would have been just a matter of time until your faction gained control.
Unfortunately, it was never given a chance because the devs did a very poor job of implementing PvP in Kessel with thecamping of load-in points, how anyone can attack anyone, as well as the problems with 1-2 shot kills. This led to a huge outcry from the PvE community who the devs obviously cater to.
It would be really cool if the devs had implemented the GCW on a strategic and tactical level using PvP and PvEplayers working together. Ona strategic level the war would cycle through phases with a major theme for each phase -similar totheJedi trials. Each phasebeing won by eitherthe rebel faction, imperial faction, or neutral faction.Perhaps the neutral factions could tip the balance for either the rebels or imperials.
On the tactical PvP level, playersofopposing squadronsare assigned to the same mission. For example, rebel player(s) inCrimson PhoenixSquadron get assigned an "escort mission", and imperial player(s) in Storm Squadron get assigned a corresponding "intercept mission". The rebel players meet up with they freighter convoy, and the imperial players get vectored in andthey fight it out. Each mission is won or lost, and counts towards the success or failure of each factionin the GCW phase. As the phase progresses, the players are given updates on the status of the phase, or war, and makes the next phase even more important.
A similar sort of system can be implemented for PvE players as well;perhaps by keeping track of the number of mission completions versus mission failures.
Adding the results of the PvP missionsand PvE missionstogether gives the results for the faction during that phase. This will promote both styles of play as players can jump back and forth between PvP or PvE depending upon how the war is going.
In this system, both play styles would be encouraged and working together for a common purpose.
Eldana
Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:48 am
#17
DND_Cas wrote:
Eldana wrote:
Nice Idea, but you still would only have to deal with PvP guys and the PvE would not be involved as they send you.
Can I ask how this is different to a armorsmith hiring a scout/ranger to collect hide or hiring a combat type to collect geocubes from the geonocian caves?
It is not different 
But I assume that your thought of giving something to the PvE community was a little more ambigous (damn word is the spelling right??? Btw I'm from germany so excuse me if my english might be strange sometimes) then being a hired resourcecollector.
Message Edited by Eldana on 11-10-2004 04:56 AM
M3t4tr0N
Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:55 am
#18
DND_Cas wrote:Can I ask how this is different to a armorsmith hiring a scout/ranger to collect hide or hiring a combat type to collect geocubes from the geonocian caves?
Because these events can happen independently of each other and there doesn't have to be a direct relationship, I can look on vendors as well. Needing PvP'ers requires there to be the right number of skilled willing participants to be on, ready and available whenever you are ... and that just doesn't happen in the real world.
And thats if you even find anyone.
Now I know its not everyone, and its the few that give you a bad name, but it does happen ... a lot.
Bugboy321
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:04 am
#19
EVERYONE in the PvP community overlooks the 400 pound gorilla in the room: THIS IS A BUSINESS AND SWG WOULD NOT EXIST OTHERWISE! SOE is required to develop policy to the least common denominator because that is what pays the bills!
Sure, put up a PvP server, and you know who will be there? PvP'rs! And NOT anyone else. Is that any different from how you all insist it's all heading now? PvP only zones? As I've seen in every other PvP game out there, if only all PvP'rs would use a little restraint and discretion rather than seeing how fast you can "pwn" someone, this would not be an issue. PvP is all about control, despite how much the PvP community may sputter about honor and challenge. As a result it draws an unsavory kind of player: the griefer. Apparently if Kessel is going PvE, then PvP'rs have lost the opportunity to contol there.
Do you seriously think there is enough PvP'rs to pay the bills? I don't, I believe most players feel inconvenienced by PvP, rather than enjoy it. Especially when it is a matter of controlling whether you participate or not. That loss of control in Kessel causes loss of customer satisfaction, therefore, SOE's removal of the cause of that dissatisfaction.
Sure, put up a PvP server, and you know who will be there? PvP'rs! And NOT anyone else. Is that any different from how you all insist it's all heading now? PvP only zones? As I've seen in every other PvP game out there, if only all PvP'rs would use a little restraint and discretion rather than seeing how fast you can "pwn" someone, this would not be an issue. PvP is all about control, despite how much the PvP community may sputter about honor and challenge. As a result it draws an unsavory kind of player: the griefer. Apparently if Kessel is going PvE, then PvP'rs have lost the opportunity to contol there.
Do you seriously think there is enough PvP'rs to pay the bills? I don't, I believe most players feel inconvenienced by PvP, rather than enjoy it. Especially when it is a matter of controlling whether you participate or not. That loss of control in Kessel causes loss of customer satisfaction, therefore, SOE's removal of the cause of that dissatisfaction.
Message Edited by Bugboy321 on 11-10-2004 08:06 AM
DND_Cas
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:24 am
#20
M3t4tr0N wrote:
DND_Cas wrote:
Can I ask how this is different to a armorsmith hiring a scout/ranger to collect hide or hiring a combat type to collect geocubes from the geonocian caves?
Because these events can happen independently of each other and there doesn't have to be a direct relationship, I can look on vendors as well. Needing PvP'ers requires there to be the right number of skilled willing participants to be on, ready and available whenever you are ... and that just doesn't happen in the real world.
"Can you come help me on my mission ?"
"No, get lost n00b"
And thats if you even find anyone.
Now I know its not everyone, and its the few that give you a bad name, but it does happen ... a lot.
We've moved on a bit here fella. We're now looking at alternativesthan simply escort mission help for PvP'ers, possibly pvp only loot and resources, so your answer doesn't quite apply to that.
Eldana,
I'd love to be able to comeup with a better connection for the PvE & PvP communities than simple resource collection. But alas my brain stopped working a few minuites ago
M3t4tr0N
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:36 am
#21
DND_Cas wrote:We've moved on a bit here fella. We're now looking at alternativesthan simply escort mission help for PvP'ers, possibly pvp only loot and resources, so your answer doesn't quite apply to that.
No, it just applied directly to the question posed in the comment to which I was replying. This forum really needs threading
Tremk_Stryder
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:39 am
#22
"Not sure if you realize that not the devs separate the community. It is the 2 different playstyles that separates the community. Andyou try to force your playstyle onto the rest of the community. And if you read your own words"
funny..caz i was forced to go thru pve crap to master pilot...why's that? why do you impose YOUR play style on me?how dare you? whine whine whine!
gimme a break...you dont want pvp...dont pvp...easy as that...its like asking to be a jedi and not be hunted by bounty hunters "just because"...
Tremk_Stryder
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:41 am
#23
"
"Can you come help me on my mission ?"
"No, get lost n00b"
And thats if you even find anyone."
And thats if you even find anyone."
dont you people have ANY friends? like at all? why do you play this game? so basically u want everything soloable....i can bearly wait for the combat upgrade to come...ohh man..i can see the people crying now
Eldana
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:45 am
#24
Tremk_Stryder wrote:
"Not sure if you realize that not the devs separate the community. It is the 2 different playstyles that separates the community. Andyou try to force your playstyle onto the rest of the community. And if you read your own words"
funny..caz i was forced to go thru pve crap to master pilot...why's that? why do you impose YOUR play style on me?how dare you? whine whine whine!
gimme a break...you dont want pvp...dont pvp...easy as that...its like asking to be a jedi and not be hunted by bounty hunters "just because"...
Whats your point here?
Only ranting to rant or what?
And stop ripping sentences into parts to fit in your posts.
Only ranting to rant or what?
And stop ripping sentences into parts to fit in your posts.
When you bought JTL you knew that it is PvE in the main part so don't try to turn around facts.
M3t4tr0N
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:45 am
#25
DND_Cas wrote:I'd love to be able to comeup with a better connection for the PvE & PvP communities than simple resource collection. But alas my brain stopped working a few minuites ago
In all honestly, I'm not sure there is a decent connection
If you make some sort of PvP only loot then the PvE'rs will still whinge because they won't be able to get it and they will have a point, because again if you wanted x,y or z you are forcing a play style on them. The main problem is that a PvP'er in terms of game mechanics is exactly the same as a PvE'er except that they can attack / be attacked by other overt players. PvE'ers already have the protection from PvP'ers since they are not participating which by default diminishes any potential integration role between the PvP and PvE'ers.
I really think the key here is to try and make PvP more open to all and try to make it more attractive so more people actually want to PvP. Then and only then will it be more fun and bring people in. I know you will always get your hardcore PvE'ers but I am sure many people are put of PvP because the system right now is too elitist.
M3t4tr0N
Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:51 am
#26
Tremk_Stryder wrote:dont you people have ANY friends? like at all? why do you play this game? so basically u want everything soloable....i can bearly wait for the combat upgrade to come...ohh man..i can see the people crying now
Yes, I run a large guild, have lots of friends that are on at many different times of the day. None of them PvP, which is the point of this thread. Also if you read through, you will see that I am simply showing an example of why certain ideas are bad. You can't force a particular style or situation upon someone if you cannot ensure that there will be the opportunity for them to carry it out.
And to take your point further, friends or no friends, some people in this game are unhelpful and unfriendly, especially to newer learning players. I remember when I started out and received similar responses when I was trying to learn how to play and work my way up from novice marksman. A lot of people in this game forget they were learners once too and stick within their elitist groups, so don't whine at me for simply pointing that out !