Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: The OFFICIAL Don't Ruin Kessel Petition
slave138
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:45 pm
#144
City of Heroes... City of Heroes... City of Heroes... God, you 're getting almost as bad as those telling people to go play something else. Guess what? There's another couple of big differences when it comes to City of Heroes - there are no PC bad guys (or there weren't when it won the awards), and there was no war. So here's an idea, quit citing other games as you are just asking for others to tell you to go play them if you think they're so great.
Slarus wrote:
City of Heroes was crowned PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year, ZERO PvP
Slarus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:48 pm
#145
No, I live completely within the reality of how this game is run. I'm not, nor have I ever, advocated all-out PvP. I realize not everyone is interested and the Devs, in their infinite wisdom, realized that too which is why we have neutrals. Your comment about the GCW was almost too funny to handle. The GCW, for all points and purposes, is one of the most broken systems in this game. There IS no GCW with everyone running around covert except the Jedi (who can't). In the concept of this game, the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Maybe you should look back at the older posts again and join the reality...
To do otherwise would be dening the choice of PvP that has been the very core of the game longer then the game has been live. NPCs are infact combatants, you may not feel that way but they are. Page 172-175 says PvP is choice and in Star Wars gamers published 2 years before live PvP was choice, you an't show one post, one offical source that confirms "the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Why? They dont exsist you made it up that the Devs wanted ALL Imps and Rebs to be Overt PvP. Do you know what Covert means? being Covert doesn't mean evryone knows who you are, it is covert secret, your saying there is no secrets in SWGs, there aren't spies and intelligence gathers that dont take up direct arms and fighting?
Open PvP for the GCW doesn't make sense, not everyone is a frontline fighter and it's never been a published thought by the designers.
Slarus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:50 pm
#146
City of Heroes... City of Heroes... City of Heroes... God, you 're getting almost as bad as those telling people to go play something else. Guess what? There's another couple of big differences when it comes to City of Heroes - there are no PC bad guys (or there weren't when it won the awards), and there was no war. So here's an idea, quit citing other games as you are just asking for others to tell you to go play them if you think they're so great.
City of Heroes was crowned PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year
And it still won an award over SWG, Lineage, EQ and others,
the catagory is PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year
not
PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year for PvE games only.
RougeSmuggler
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:56 pm
#147
Slarus wrote:
No, I live completely within the reality of how this game is run. I'm not, nor have I ever, advocated all-out PvP. I realize not everyone is interested and the Devs, in their infinite wisdom, realized that too which is why we have neutrals. Your comment about the GCW was almost too funny to handle. The GCW, for all points and purposes, is one of the most broken systems in this game. There IS no GCW with everyone running around covert except the Jedi (who can't). In the concept of this game, the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Maybe you should look back at the older posts again and join the reality...
To do otherwise would be dening the choice of PvP that has been the very core of the game longer then the game has been live. NPCs are infact combatants, you may not feel that way but they are. Page 172-175 says PvP is choice and in Star Wars gamers published 2 years before live PvP was choice, you an't show one post, one offical source that confirms "the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Why? They dont exsist you made it up that the Devs wanted ALL Imps and Rebs to be Overt PvP. Do you know what Covert means? being Covert doesn't mean evryone knows who you are, it is covert secret, your saying there is no secrets in SWGs, there aren't spies and intelligence gathers that dont take up direct arms and fighting?
Open PvP for the GCW doesn't make sense, not everyone is a frontline fighter and it's never been a published thought by the designers.
Your both right and wrong. By participating in the GCW, whether through Overt or Covert status, you are accepting the risk of PvP combat. That's why we have TEF flags. This was the precedent untill Jump to Lightspeed, where the rules were unfortunatley changed. What this has to do with the ground game is still up in the air. But I would not be surprised to see the Devs hammer in the last nail of the GCW by removing Covert TEFs.
-red
slave138
Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:59 pm
#148
I never said the Devs expected everyone to be overt all the time, but here's a challenge for you: Explain the covert detector. To me, it seems to go totally against everything you are saying. While you're at it, explain the troopers in various cities who can reveal me as a rebel. I'm not saying there are no coverts in Star Wars. I AM saying that everyone wasn't a covert and those that went around killing Imperials and Rebels couldn't keep their covers anyways. I never advocated "open PvP" and would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I think they should add a sympathsizer catagory to both sides that can never be involved in PvP but cannot offer direct support to those who can (no healing during combat, for example).
Slarus wrote:
To do otherwise would be dening the choice of PvP that has been the very core of the game longer then the game has been live. NPCs are infact combatants, you may not feel that way but they are. Page 172-175 says PvP is choice and in Star Wars gamers published 2 years before live PvP was choice, you an't show one post, one offical source that confirms "the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Why? They dont exsist you made it up that the Devs wanted ALL Imps and Rebs to be Overt PvP. Do you know what Covert means? being Covert doesn't mean evryone knows who you are, it is covert secret, your saying there is no secrets in SWGs, there aren't spies and intelligence gathers that dont take up direct arms and fighting?
Open PvP for the GCW doesn't make sense, not everyone is a frontline fighter and it's never been a published thought by the designers.
Slarus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:02 pm
#149
Your both right and wrong. By participating in the GCW, whether through Overt or Covert status, you are accepting the risk of PvP combat. That's why we have TEF flags. This was the precedent untill Jump to Lightspeed, where the rules were unfortunatley changed. What this has to do with the ground game is still up in the air. But I would not be surprised to see the Devs hammer in the last nail of the GCW by removing Covert TEFs.
One mission being held in a PvP zone is not the same as TEFs, you can play SWG be covert and NEVER PvP. TEFs did not take long to get rid of.
The Devs went on saying that PvP was by CHOICE alone not choice in sides, or a mission but choice to PvP or not.
From the JTL FAQ:
How is overt and covert going to work in space?
No "covert" in space.
In normal space zones: If you choose to be overt then you will be overt and attackable only by other overts and NPCs. If you choose not to be overt then there will be no TEF if you decide to attack NPCs of the opposite faction soyou will remain unattackable by overt players, unlike the ground game. PvP will be purely consensual.
In Wild Space zones: PvP for everyone. You will be divided into factions here. In Deep Space, Basic Pilots must pick a side; rebel or Imperial. In Kessel it is Rebel vs Imperial vs RSF (Naboo Privateers)vs CorSec (Corellia Privateers)vs Smuggler's Alliance/Hutt (Tatooine Privateers - working for Jabba and after) vs Smuggler's Alliance/Valarian (Tatooine Privateers - before working for Jabba).
As you can see Privateer is divided and fight each other as well as the other pilot professions.
Juusman
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:02 pm
#150
Slarus wrote:
No, I live completely within the reality of how this game is run. I'm not, nor have I ever, advocated all-out PvP. I realize not everyone is interested and the Devs, in their infinite wisdom, realized that too which is why we have neutrals. Your comment about the GCW was almost too funny to handle. The GCW, for all points and purposes, is one of the most broken systems in this game. There IS no GCW with everyone running around covert except the Jedi (who can't). In the concept of this game, the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Maybe you should look back at the older posts again and join the reality...
To do otherwise would be dening the choice of PvP that has been the very core of the game longer then the game has been live. NPCs are infact combatants, you may not feel that way but they are. Page 172-175 says PvP is choice and in Star Wars gamers published 2 years before live PvP was choice, you an't show one post, one offical source that confirms "the Devs opinion was (from the beginning) that the choice not to be involved in PvP was the choice you made when you decided to give up neutrality and join a side in the war. Why? They dont exsist you made it up that the Devs wanted ALL Imps and Rebs to be Overt PvP. Do you know what Covert means? being Covert doesn't mean evryone knows who you are, it is covert secret, your saying there is no secrets in SWGs, there aren't spies and intelligence gathers that dont take up direct arms and fighting?
Open PvP for the GCW doesn't make sense, not everyone is a frontline fighter and it's never been a published thought by the designers.
That may be true Slarus, but the GCW needs to be fixed. It's just stupid the way it is now. I think it should be more like the jedi system. The more you kill opposing faction NPCs, the higher likelihood that you will be "black listed" or made permanently overt. Maybe you could then visit an ID and have your appearance changed to go overt again.
I know you don't like PvP, but many players are part-time PvP'ers at least. SOE needs to fix the GCW to bring this element back into the game.
Slarus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:04 pm
#151
I never said the Devs expected everyone to be overt all the time, but here's a challenge for you: Explain the covert detector. To me, it seems to go totally against everything you are saying. While you're at it, explain the troopers in various cities who can reveal me as a rebel. I'm not saying there are no coverts in Star Wars. I AM saying that everyone wasn't a covert and those that went around killing Imperials and Rebels couldn't keep their covers anyways. I never advocated "open PvP" and would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I think they should add a sympathsizer catagory to both sides that can never be involved in PvP but cannot offer direct support to those who can (no healing during combat, for example).
But you can master any profession, and get the highest rank on one side without the need for PvP, but you advocate not being able to master the ONE space going profession without PvP. Dont give me that JTL is different it is PART of SWG, the same basic rules apply. One is turn based one is twitch there are few other differences after that.
RougeSmuggler
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:06 pm
#152
Slarus wrote:
City of Heroes... City of Heroes... City of Heroes... God, you 're getting almost as bad as those telling people to go play something else. Guess what? There's another couple of big differences when it comes to City of Heroes - there are no PC bad guys (or there weren't when it won the awards), and there was no war. So here's an idea, quit citing other games as you are just asking for others to tell you to go play them if you think they're so great.
City of Heroes was crowned PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year
And it still won an award over SWG, Lineage, EQ and others,
the catagory is PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year
not
PC/Console Game of the Year and Multiplayer Game of the Year for PvE games only.
Its a good idea to give the source of the award too. There is no Universal gaming Award that is the definitive source of what games are good and what games are not. And what were CoH's competitors? We have to look at the MMOGs that came out recently. These awards don't bother nominating games that were released in previos cycles, just like the Oscars don't bring up movies from 5 years ago.
To my knowledge the only MMGs released this past year were City of Heroes, Final Fantasy (X? XI? Whatever number it was)and Lineage 2. Not really that tough of competition if you ask me.
Also, City of Heroes is still new. I know I got bored of it relativley quickly. There is simply nothing else to do besides kill AI. Over and over and over and over again. The novelty of being a superhero wears out quickly. I'm interested to see what they will do to re-energize the game and give an actual point to it.
-red
Slarus
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:07 pm
#153
That may be true Slarus, but the GCW needs to be fixed. It's just stupid the way it is now. I think it should be more like the jedi system. The more you kill opposing faction NPCs, the higher likelihood that you will be "black listed" or made permanently overt. Maybe you could then visit an ID and have your appearance changed to go overt again.
I know you don't like PvP, but many players are part-time PvP'ers at least. SOE needs to fix the GCW to bring this element back into the game.
That is a matter of debate I agree I dont feel enough is done with the GCW, but I dont think forced PvP is the solution, forced PvP is a cheap way out. Something does need to be done to allow covert and overts to do something, but more PvP is not the only answer and shouldnt be the answer.
RougeSmuggler
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:07 pm
#154
Slarus wrote:
I never said the Devs expected everyone to be overt all the time, but here's a challenge for you: Explain the covert detector. To me, it seems to go totally against everything you are saying. While you're at it, explain the troopers in various cities who can reveal me as a rebel. I'm not saying there are no coverts in Star Wars. I AM saying that everyone wasn't a covert and those that went around killing Imperials and Rebels couldn't keep their covers anyways. I never advocated "open PvP" and would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I think they should add a sympathsizer catagory to both sides that can never be involved in PvP but cannot offer direct support to those who can (no healing during combat, for example).
But you can master any profession, and get the highest rank on one side without the need for PvP, but you advocate not being able to master the ONE space going profession without PvP. Dont give me that JTL is different it is PART of SWG, the same basic rules apply. One is turn based one is twitch there are few other differences after that.
That is off subject from the purpose of this thread. This thread isn't to force people to PvP, but to keep Kessel a PvP area. The devs can move the Master mission elsewhere.
-red
Starson
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:12 pm
#155
Oh my goodness, I can't belive this is still going. I am not going into my views, as I play both pvp and pve. Come on folks, let it go. There was a problem and the dev.'s fixed it. I am sure pvp'er will get something as soon as possible, just give it a chance. Kind'a remind's me of the old story about beat'n a dead horse, 'cause it aint move'n fast enough. Does the word 'pointless' mean anything to ya?
Juusman
Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:13 pm
#156
Slarus wrote:
That may be true Slarus, but the GCW needs to be fixed. It's just stupid the way it is now. I think it should be more like the jedi system. The more you kill opposing faction NPCs, the higher likelihood that you will be "black listed" or made permanently overt. Maybe you could then visit an ID and have your appearance changed to go overt again.
I know you don't like PvP, but many players are part-time PvP'ers at least. SOE needs to fix the GCW to bring this element back into the game.
That is a matter of debate I agree I dont feel enough is done with the GCW, but I dont think forced PvP is the solution, forced PvP is a cheap way out. Something does need to be done to allow covert and overts to do something, but more PvP is not the only answer and shouldnt be the answer.
Why don't you whine that TEFs are forced PvP? And don't give me that crap that it's ok because it's explained in the rule book.
Whether you like it or not, this game already has forced PvP under certain situations, and well it should. If you like to go around killing imperial or rebel NPCs, you should know that you're going to become well known to players and NPCs alike - and will eventually become permanently overt. That just makes simple sense.