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dIo_oIb wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.

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On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:

Kessel becomes a PvE zone

Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-2004 05:11 PM

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Thank you for killing the onlyreason why I don't play WoW.

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Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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FalinMor wrote:

Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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See how that fits right in?

I ask again... why is "PvP" the only playstyle omitted in every example?

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FalinMor wrote:

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.

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On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:

Kessel becomes a PvE zone

Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-2004 05:11 PM

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Thank you for killing the onlyreason why I don't play WoW.

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Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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Message Edited by dIo_oIb on 11-09-2004 04:00 PM

Message Edited by dIo_oIb on 11-09-2004 04:01 PM

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KaptainKrude wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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I'm "unwilling" to craft... should I have Master Armorsmith so I can make my own armor anyway?
I'm "unwilling" to go be combative... should I have Master TKA anyway so I can fight Nightsisters and get good loot?

I'm "unwilling" to entertain... should I have Master Dancer anyway so I can have attention in the cantinas too?

I'm "unwilling" to PvP... should I have the benefits of that too? (if there were any)

See how that fits right in?

I ask again... why is "PvP" the only playstyle omitted in every example?

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It doesn't fit in at all. You don't have to make armor, you can buy it. If you don't want to be combative, you don't need good loot. You don't need to be a Dancer to get attention in cantinas, you just need to have a personality.

There is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE for those who don't like PvP to get master.

It's really simple. I have no idea who some people are having such a hard time understanding it.

Falin

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FalinMor wrote:

Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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I think you misinterpret him. I know I for one stick around for PvP. I want a GCW that is actually worth something, not this BS that forces us into the fringes of space where we blow each other up over nothing. I'm not even a diehard PvPer, I just want a GCW that actually makes sense and means something.

I'm not saying that Kessel did provide a reason for the GCW, but its removal is a sign that PvP just doens't matter, and it won't matter anytime soon. What matters is that Players can do whatever they want, and whenever they want. Because its all about fairness, not difficulty, nor continuity. But don't mention to them that it's not fair that I have to PvE for ages before I can reach Master Pilot so I can participate in MY playstyle. My playstyle is only for l33t ganker d00ds and doesn't count as much as their "I Want It All" playstyle.

-red

Message Edited by RougeSmuggler on 11-09-2004 04:01 PM

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.

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On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:

Kessel becomes a PvE zone

Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-2004 05:11 PM

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Thank you for killing the onlyreason why I don't play WoW.

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Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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Kessel is the only challenge I get while playing the game. They shouldn't make Kessel a PvE zone they should spawn the Corevette around Endor. It is as simple as that. I do not want to have to wait for my friends to get master in order for me to have fun with them.

It is as simple as that

Move the corvette out of Kessel done

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Moving the mission is not that simple, at all.

I agree, it's a shame that there's going to be only one PvP zone, and I hope it's a temporary fix. I like Kessel as it is right now. But the issue that changing Kessel fixes is simply more important.

Falin

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FalinMor wrote:

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

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Re: Master level missions: a SOLUTION to make everyone happy.

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On Tuesday, we will be seeing some changes here:

Kessel becomes a PvE zone

Master Pilot Boxes can be attained without PvP

Message Edited by Thunderheart on 11-09-2004 05:11 PM

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Thank you for killing the onlyreason why I don't play WoW.

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Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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Kessel is the only challenge I get while playing the game. They shouldn't make Kessel a PvE zone they should spawn the Corevette around Endor. It is as simple as that. I do not want to have to wait for my friends to get master in order for me to have fun with them.

It is as simple as that

Move the corvette out of Kessel done

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Moving the mission is not that simple, at all.

I agree, it's a shame that there's going to be only one PvP zone, and I hope it's a temporary fix. I like Kessel as it is right now. But the issue that changing Kessel fixes is simply more important.

Falin

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RougeSmuggler wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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I think you misinterpret him. I know I for one stick around for PvP. I want a GCW that is actually worth something, not this BS that forces us into the fringes of space where we blow each other up over nothing. I'm not even a diehard PvPer, I just want a GCW that actually makes sense and means something.

I'm not saying that Kessel did provide a reason for the GCW, but its removal is a sign that PvP just doens't matter, and it won't matter anytime soon. What matters is that Players can do whatever they want, and whenever they want. Because its all about fairness, not difficulty, nor continuity. But don't mention to them that it's not fair that I have to PvE for ages before I can reach Master Pilot so I can participate in MY playstyle. My playstyle is only for l33t ganker d00ds and doesn't count as much as their "I Want It All" playstyle.

-red

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I like PvP myself.... but there's really a big difference between what you're saying and what was going on here.

You say that you don't like having to go through the PvE content in order to PvP. Fine, I can understand that. But that's nothing like having to PvP when you don't want to. No one specifically wants you to have to PvE, that's just the way this kind of game works. It's in the design. If there was a way for you to advance without PvE at all, I'm pretty sure the PvE folks wouldn't care.

So why do you care that they can advance without PvP? If you want them to have to PvP, it means that you want to have direct control of their ability to advance, that you want the ability to spoil theiradvancement/fun with direct action. Why? It's a purely selfish desire, and has no place in a game like this.

Falin

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dIo_oIb wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

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dIo_oIb wrote:

Kessel is the only challenge I get while playing the game. They shouldn't make Kessel a PvE zone they should spawn the Corevette around Endor. It is as simple as that. I do not want to have to wait for my friends to get master in order for me to have fun with them.

It is as simple as that

Move the corvette out of Kessel done

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Moving the mission is not that simple, at all.

I agree, it's a shame that there's going to be only one PvP zone, and I hope it's a temporary fix. I like Kessel as it is right now. But the issue that changing Kessel fixes is simply more important.

Falin

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hmm... If the Devs can make Nightsisters and spiders spawn in coronet and theed how is it not that simple?

All they have to do is add code that makes the corvette spawn in kessel to another area.

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Because they're directly causing them to spawn by hand.

If they move the vette mission into a different sector, they have to:

1. Set static spawn points and schedule
2. Balance it against the rest of the sector
3. Make sure they avoid the routes/spawn points of other missions in the sector

Etc. etc.

It's not so simple.

Falin

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FalinMor wrote:

I like PvP myself.... but there's really a big difference between what you're saying and what was going on here.

You say that you don't like having to go through the PvE content in order to PvP. Fine, I can understand that. But that's nothing like having to PvP when you don't want to. No one specifically wants you to have to PvE, that's just the way this kind of game works. It's in the design. If there was a way for you to advance without PvE at all, I'm pretty sure the PvE folks wouldn't care.

So why do you care that they can advance without PvP? If you want them to have to PvP, it means that you want to have direct control of their ability to advance, that you want the ability to spoil theiradvancement/fun with direct action. Why? It's a purely selfish desire, and has no place in a game like this.

Falin

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Falin, we both agree with each other. on the main point. I'm not saying that players that don't want to PvP should have to. I feel that Kessel should not be changed, but the Master mission should. The problem here is not that Kessel is PvP, it's that the mssion required to become Master takes place in a PvP area. Since we already have 8 playgrounds for PvE players to participate in without the threat of attack from players, it only makes sense to move the Master mission to a location where these players will not be upset.

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DND_Cas wrote:

WORST SOLUTION EVER.

Thats right its in capital letters

I'm forced to completely agree with a1davida1. (FYI I completely agree with a PvE master mission. I completely disagree with a getting rid of the PvP master mission).

You already have 5 pve systems why take away a pvp one? Lots of people like PvP and lots ofpeople would rather do the PvP version of the master mission as it is now.

You already are able to instance multiple zones of the same type why not do it for the PvE master missions and leave kessel the rest of the time as a PvP zone? Let the players choose if they want to master via the PvP method or the PvE one. Give a different, but equally good reward, for each mission.

Why do you always choose the all or nothing approach to solving problem and hence alienate the proportion of the community that you once favoured with decisions? You simply switch from pissing off one section of the community to pissing off the other.

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I agree that this would have been the best solution.... but they needed a stopgap solution to stop the bleeding. Hopefully a more permanent solution will show up later.

As for your last statement... when you have to piss off one group, it's generally best to piss off the smaller one.

Falin

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FalinMor wrote:

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KaptainKrude wrote:

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FalinMor wrote:

Killing unwilling players was the only reason you played this game?

Good riddance.

Falin

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I'm "unwilling" to craft... should I have Master Armorsmith so I can make my own armor anyway?
I'm "unwilling" to go be combative... should I have Master TKA anyway so I can fight Nightsisters and get good loot?

I'm "unwilling" to entertain... should I have Master Dancer anyway so I can have attention in the cantinas too?

I'm "unwilling" to PvP... should I have the benefits of that too? (if there were any)

See how that fits right in?

I ask again... why is "PvP" the only playstyle omitted in every example?

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It doesn't fit in at all. You don't have to make armor, you can buy it. If you don't want to be combative, you don't need good loot. You don't need to be a Dancer to get attention in cantinas, you just need to have a personality.

There is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE for those who don't like PvP to get master.

It's really simple. I have no idea who some people are having such a hard time understanding it.

Falin

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Honestly, I'm not trying to flame or incitean argument... I just fail to see one valid reason why PvP deserves to be set aside so frequently...