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Thread: SHIP CONTROL
Lord_Dorchadas wrote:
well the reason i made mention of the control is that while in space you're still movingwithin a three dimensional space (sphere, cube, etc.)
the only difference between a space sim and a flight sim is the fact that
1. Gravity doesnt not apply (well maybe a little)
2. There is no hard deck to a space sim....
so while you are limited to flying in Half spere in 3d in a flightsim....you can fly in the entire sphere in the space sim
So really the BFM (Basic Flight Maneuvers) forhalf spherical aerial combatis simply expanded to encompass a large volume of space...(the entire sphere)
Hence Roll will be a more useful tool for changing direction due to the fact that yaw depends on the x-y plane turn radius of the craft...Roll+pitch throws you into a completely vector concerning the other combatant and it will be harder for them to get an angle on you...
just my two cents
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 12:15 PM
I can see where you're coming from, but there's no guarantee that the turn rate on the y axis (y-axis is up btw, x isacross/pitch and z is lengthwise/roll) is any different to the turn rate on the x axis, it is in a plane for sure because the wing is designed to lift in the positive y direction and is a much larger control surface than the rudder, consequently a roll and a climb is a much faster way of turning than relying purely on yaw control.
However in a spacecraft you're not constrained by wings, so your turn rates are based purely on the strength of the thrusters you're using and the inertia moment of the craft, in other words, it's completely arbitrary especially in a game.
Rolling and climbing puts you into a different vector for sure, but you can achieve the exact same vector by yawing and climbing depending on the performance of the craft itself, it's just that your up vector, your y-axis, will be pointing in a different direction, you'll still be following the same path, you'll just have a different orientation and as I say, since this is space, your orientation is generally far less important (especially if you're flying a ship without turrets, since you're going to be firing forward regardless).
I agree that it might feel unnatural if you come from a flight sim background, but to those of us coming from the old Lucasarts space sims it makes a lot more sense, I play a lot of both and I have to say that in space I prefer this method of control.
Restrik wrote:
well, i don't think you can do a barrel role in space....unless you had some sort of thrusters that make you go up and down on both sides, and in that case you could probably do it with those...and what ever button controled them
Yah but it looks like youll be able to do barrels rolls and all flying manuvers. Ive seen the videos on http://media.pc.ign.com/media/678/678088/vids_1.html
The games looks awesome. Why are they makign us wait so long!
Namra wrote:
Restrik wrote:well, i don't think you can do a barrel role in space....unless you had some sort of thrusters that make you go up and down on both sides, and in that case you could probably do it with those...and what ever button controled themYah but it looks like youll be able to do barrels rolls and all flying manuvers. Ive seen the videos on http://media.pc.ign.com/media/678/678088/vids_1.html
The games looks awesome. Why are they makign us wait so long!
Unless you want a choppy mesh of unfinished graphic content and the like, they're releasing it rather early.
Lord_Dorchadas wrote:
well the reason i made mention of the control is that while in space you're still movingwithin a three dimensional space (sphere, cube, etc.)
the only difference between a space sim and a flight sim is the fact that
1. Gravity doesnt not apply (well maybe a little)
2. There is no hard deck to a space sim....
so while you are limited to flying in Half spere in 3d in a flightsim....you can fly in the entire sphere in the space sim
So really the BFM (Basic Flight Maneuvers) forhalf spherical aerial combatis simply expanded to encompass a large volume of space...(the entire sphere)
Hence Roll will be a more useful tool for changing direction due to the fact that yaw depends on the x-y plane turn radius of the craft...Roll+pitch throws you into a completely vector concerning the other combatant and it will be harder for them to get an angle on you...
just my two cents
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 12:15 PM
I can see where you're coming from, but there's no guarantee that the turn rate on the y axis (y-axis is up btw, x isacross/pitch and z is lengthwise/roll) is any different to the turn rate on the x axis, it is in a plane for sure because the wing is designed to lift in the positive y direction and is a much larger control surface than the rudder, consequently a roll and a climb is a much faster way of turning than relying purely on yaw control.
However in a spacecraft you're not constrained by wings, so your turn rates are based purely on the strength of the thrusters you're using and the inertia moment of the craft, in other words, it's completely arbitrary especially in a game.
Rolling and climbing puts you into a different vector for sure, but you can achieve the exact same vector by yawing and climbing depending on the performance of the craft itself, it's just that your up vector, your y-axis, will be pointing in a different direction, you'll still be following the same path, you'll just have a different orientation and as I say, since this is space, your orientation is generally far less important (especially if you're flying a ship without turrets, since you're going to be firing forward regardless).
I agree that it might feel unnatural if you come from a flight sim background, but to those of us coming from the old Lucasarts space sims it makes a lot more sense, I play a lot of both and I have to say that in space I prefer this method of control.
1.
WarFerret posted:
I can see where you're coming from, but there's no guarantee that the turn rate on the y axis (y-axis is up btw, x is across/pitch and z is lengthwise/roll) is any different to the turn rate on the x axis, it is in a plane for sure because the wing is designed to lift in the positive y direction and is a much larger control surface than the rudder, consequently a roll and a climb is a much faster way of turning than relying purely on yaw control.
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I was talking from a mathematical view point...in higher level calculus the x axis is the axis toward you and the z axis is height..but none the less you got the idea...and I do see your point in the idea of spacecraft being dependant not on their wing shapes but rather on the power of the engines....(i.e the more advanced the ship the smaller the radius of yaw/pitch.) I guess we will just have to see what happens when its released.
2. Were you able to alter the primary flight controls on any of the early Lucas Arts Sims, if so then we can safely assume that we will be able to reassign them here..if not..maybe they will add it 
3.I can see why both styles of play could have advantages when it comes to Combat...really its going to come down to how comfortable everyone is with there own style...for me its the flight sim way..for others the space sim...but does any style really offer an advantage over the other?
4. On a side note.....Does anyone feel that Force Feedback hampers/increases their ability to control a ship/plane any better or worse???
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 03:50 PM
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 03:51 PM
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 03:52 PM
Lord_Dorchadas wrote:
well the reason i made mention of the control is that while in space you're still movingwithin a three dimensional space (sphere, cube, etc.)
the only difference between a space sim and a flight sim is the fact that
1. Gravity doesnt not apply (well maybe a little)
2. There is no hard deck to a space sim....
so while you are limited to flying in Half spere in 3d in a flightsim....you can fly in the entire sphere in the space sim
So really the BFM (Basic Flight Maneuvers) forhalf spherical aerial combatis simply expanded to encompass a large volume of space...(the entire sphere)
Hence Roll will be a more useful tool for changing direction due to the fact that yaw depends on the x-y plane turn radius of the craft...Roll+pitch throws you into a completely vector concerning the other combatant and it will be harder for them to get an angle on you...
just my two cents
Message Edited by Lord_Dorchadas on 09-15-2004 12:15 PM