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Thread: What is the problem with PVP vs. PVE?
So after the first couple of times, most people are like "meh, why bother? I'll go (insert some PvE activity here) instead. At least then I don't have to listen to some punk with self-esteem issues taunting me."
So there you are- the biggest problem with PVP vs PVE.
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Uther27 wrote:
PVP vs PVE
I would love someone to enlighten me. What is with this division? I apparently am lacking some vital knowledge that the people that are addamently against doing the master missions in Kessel know about. I am wondering what it is. What causes PVP to be so unfun?
An argument for PVE that I see a lot of people saying is that they don't want to deal with having random people being able to jump in on their mission and "ruin" it for them. I say this happens all of the time in the normal PVE grounds with tier 4/5 npcs aggroing onto people trying to do their missions, but you don't hear much more than a occasional peep. And everyone is basically told to suck it up and do it anyways.
An argument for PVP is that the AI cannot match a person's randomness and ability to adapt to a situation. I agree with this, to an extent. A person's ability to think and make decisions also adds to them running when outnumbered and choosing not to engage until the opportunity is advantageous to them. This alone makes them much a more dangerous adversary and can be very frustrating for someone only expecting to have to deal with dog-brained AI.
If there were a solution that involved making another PVE zone, identical to Kessel whereyou go on a mission to kill "regular" npc targets (ships and the corvette) and hasa randomly changing number of "super" npcs (based on current number of people logged in perhaps?) running around that will aggro you from much further away (2-3000 m), have the capability to one or two shot you, and generally be a major nieusance, but you can 1-2 shot them back if you see them first. If this is ok for the PVE people, I ask you what is the difference of that and going to the current Kessel? If this is not ok then I have made my point I think.
Personally, if I had to make a choice between that type of zone and the current Kessel I'd take the current one, at least there is a chance of the PVP people making a mistake or missing.
5 stars for you !!
But to answer your question.. if the devs built some kind of uber AI that was comparable to actual humans.. say something like chess AI, I guarantee you all the PvE players would be on the boards screaming bloody murder andperitioning the devs to tone down the AI.
In my mind, they're not happy unless there's just the right amount of difficulty. Not too hard, but not too easy either.. just enough to assure that they get the master mission within a dozen trys. Anything more difficult than that and they start to get irate.
But to answer your question.. if the devs built some kind of uber AI that was comparable to actual humans.. say something like chess AI, I guarantee you all the PvE players would be on the boards screaming bloody murder andperitioning the devs to tone down the AI.
In my mind, they're not happy unless there's just the right amount of difficulty. Not too hard, but not too easy either.. just enough to assure that they get the master mission within a dozen trys. Anything more difficult than that and they start to get irate.
1. Your assuming this and have no proof.
2. The issue is not PvE difficulty it is about being forced to PvP for wanting to complete a skill that is NOT rare.
3. Someone will complain about something always, but sometimes the complaints are legitimate you just think unless everyone PvPs they should not get anything in this game.
4.If the mission was never in a PvP zone all the threads about forced PvP would be gone, and I doubt there would be any to force PvP, I can use 33 other professions as proof of that, there is no threads on the board calling for PvP to master ANY profession, so this would not have been an issue by that observation.
5. Mastering a profession is not rare you have not proven that, nor have you proven PvP is the only challeng for players of SWG, prove that and you win. For you it may be a challenge and for you it should be rare to master a professeion but your a seriously small minority.
Slarus wrote:
Slarus that is kind of my point. Besides the dummy that wants to call you a name, there is no difference between a NPC and a player. They are both enemies that are out to destroy you.
The PvPers are hung up on the Ace title, they think it means PvP god. USAF standards say an Ace has 5 confirmed kills, well PvP or PvE TIEs are TIEs and we kill 5 before reaching 1000 so EVERYONE is an Ace. Ace is just an alternate title so they wouldn't have 35 Master titles, it was meant to be different and NOT a PvP title.
OK, but that is not what I was talking about. I am not talking about the right to be called ace or not. My point was more that there is little difference between an NPC and a player. They are both looking to gun down. Neither care about you personally. One can shoot you down a bit faster and behaves more sporadically, but you can shoot them down just as fast. I do have a point to my madness. The Devs know what they are doing.
The Devs knew that there was going to be camping. They had to, if they didn't they need to be fired. I think that they want everyone to either get in a group to defend themselves and have some fun with PVP or get ganked by being outnumbered. If you have the skill to defend yourself succesfully vs. Players out to get you and the NPCs that are always there by yourself, it's all good. But that is not their intent. They want us to group to work together. They also want us to experience PVP. I read it for my own eyes in Beta. I also don't think it's a bad idea. The current implemenation could definitly use some tweaking (load camping), I will certainly agree with that.
OK, but that is not what I was talking about. I am not talking about the right to be called ace or not. My point was more that there is little difference between an NPC and a player. They are both looking to gun down. Neither care about you personally. One can shoot you down a bit faster and behaves more sporadically, but you can shoot them down just as fast. I do have a point to my madness. The Devs know what they are doing.
The Devs knew that there was going to be camping. They had to, if they didn't they need to be fired. I think that they want everyone to either get in a group to defend themselves and have some fun with PVP or get ganked by being outnumbered. If you have the skill to defend yourself succesfully vs. Players out to get you and the NPCs that are always there by yourself, it's all good. But that is not their intent. They want us to group to work together. They also want us to experience PVP. I read it for my own eyes in Beta. I also don't think it's a bad idea. The current implemenation could definitly use some tweaking (load camping), I will certainly agree with that.
I agree Ace is a misleading term as technically anyone is an Ace after 5 kills, but the griefers try using that as a selling point to the rare and magical nature of Master Pilot and why PvP which is a joke is better.
I could kill 5 times as many players as Teir 5 TIEs, and PvP is the challenge, haha. Camping of course just means these guys are not there for PvP, but are soley out there to prevent others from having fun. A coward who wants an ego boost camps vettes and zone ins, coward. PvP in Kessel is a joke. PvP in regular space, both players know and have to agree to the duel, then whoever is faster at getting the one shot off wins, at least it is a mild childlike challenge that way. But camping is a childish cowards way.
Slarus wrote:
Slarus that is kind of my point. Besides the dummy that wants to call you a name, there is no difference between a NPC and a player. They are both enemies that are out to destroy you.
The PvPers are hung up on the Ace title, they think it means PvP god. USAF standards say an Ace has 5 confirmed kills, well PvP or PvE TIEs are TIEs and we kill 5 before reaching 1000 so EVERYONE is an Ace. Ace is just an alternate title so they wouldn't have 35 Master titles, it was meant to be different and NOT a PvP title.
For Chr#st sakes would quit the USAF standards crap!! This has nothing to do with being called an Ace. It has to do with being the "best of the best" in combat profession whether you call that master pilot, ace, or l337 DoOD!! Just because all the other combat master profession don't require PvP doesn't mean that it can't be changed by SOE - though I doubt they would ever do that because all you whiners would go ballistic!
No where does SOE say that you have can master any profession free of PvP. They merely say that PvP is consentual in that you have to agree to it.. either explicity by going overt, or implicitly when accepting missions that possibly risk being TEF'd.