Items And Loot Archive
Thread: I know its for crafters, but does loot have to suck so bad in SWG?
P__Day wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:
Roscannon wrote:
Ilcbar wrote:
I just wish that the loot my guild brought me I didn't have to laugh at. IMO looted components should be better80% of time than craftable components,
I have to disagree with you here. This game, as far as I know, was not meant to be a loot driven game. The player economy is based on a crafting system. If the looted components are better than what can be crafted 80% of the time then, frankly, nobody would want weapons/armor/whatever that were made entirely with crafted components. Plus, the items crafted with these loots would be "overpowered." I believe this is why they nerfed Krayt Tissue drop rates. Could be wrong though.
SWG won't survive if it only appeals to players who want to play crafters. Even though the crafting in SWG is more fun than any other MMORPG I've played, or read about, because of the player economy, still, for those who play combat roles, there should be valuable, effort-appropriate rewards as well.
You get to explore dungeons, can get loot from the dungeons, i mean i got tons of loot both from the geo cave and the DW bunker, you can sell base cores on the bazar, the looted geo cores have certain advantadges that most shortsighted combat toons dont see for instance Geo cores often have alot better range mods. Loot 1 yellow cube? have a ws make you a powerhammer with it, crafted geo cores come out better than the reg adv cores for teh most part.
As a veteran player myself - yes - the two dungeons you mentioned do drop loot, and if you camp it enough in sizeable amounts. However - the loot is *very* limited.Two weapons from DWB, one forSwordsman, that coincidentally happens to be the primary weapon loot from Geo too, the Acklay Bones for Power Hammers (and Gaffi's/Stun Batons). I didn't see aCarbine or Pike loot and the TK one was removed. If you look at the majorityof other dungeons however, they are limited in reward.
Couldn't the loot system spawn combatant-usable items (armor, weapons, etc.) that are just a bit lower than the quality available on advertised vendors. Or make them condition 1, requiring repair. Have the server do an averaging for various loot items compared to advertised vendor quality and dial it down just a tad, but not as far down as it is set now. Rewards are fun. Superficial, unusablerewards (for the majority of players) means less fun. Sure it's not the only fun, but we could always use more if it can be done in a way that doesn't actually ruin it for crafters.
The new enhance packs are good usable loot, + to speed or acc for a set time, what about crafters starting out? say a 0-2-0-2 WS trying to sell some cheap weapons on a bazar, or a starter AS trying to sell 6% kin mabari? the loot will now push them even more out from beign able to make a profit or even break even, since all hte combat toons buy from master's.
The start up AS or WS should not be looking to sell to Masters, they should be looking to sell to newer players. Yes - the game is unfortunate for them, but - if you'd spent literally months of your life collecting resources (the craft professions *can* but aren't guaranteed to be time consuming) you'd not want the Joe Sixpack who just started being able to craft better than you can. However - actually finding newbie's and equipping them and getting them to know your name takes commitment and effort - much like building up any business relationship would do.
Crafters can make plenty of profits through diligence and expertise, thanks to the player economy. The products of crafting are a mix of skill level and resources found and harvested (loot from the ground). Combatants (who are the crafters' customers, remember) currently have far fewer rewards for their diligence and expertise. Because of low mission pay-outs, loot is a big part of the potential for reward. Higher end loot, that requires more than a couple people, is really only attainable to very few players ever, since the loot system doesn't distribute loot in a group. Most players have zero chance of attaining that large group loot unless they play the much-hated ninja looter or are a guild leader. Most large group participants can only hope the leader likes them enough to let them have a few scraps from the king's table.
Combat chars can take up scout, there was a spawn of avian on my server selling for 250 cpu last week, some 200 or so cpu herb meat the week before. You can set up harvesters and sell grind or HQ resoruces. Get loot components crafters need, like geo cubes and so on. you can go to endor run 10k missions and have something like 200k credits and 20k meat in 3 hours thats a pretty nice profit in my oppinion. Like it or not, combat chars were never meant to make as much money as crafters and merchants. Its alot more work to play a crafter than a combat toon. I think loot should be in the form of things that enhace your combat skills for the most part, not items that can be crafted, since that rules out crafters. If i could loot armor for my combat toons even if it was a little worse than crafted i wouldnt buy armor from armorsmiths.
Here is where I disagree quite strongly with you... the majority of high end crafters that supply me, and that I supply with organics have lots of resources and lots of harvesters. They spent a few hours making schems, stock up shops and watch the credits roll in (then go play their combat toons for hours on end). When hunting for loot - you can spend hours without reward. Sure - I can grind missions off a terminal - but that gets real boring real fast. I'll concede that I don't have the inclination to set up a cash cow, but that shouldn't mean that I should be limited to finding posters and rewards that are effectively meaningless to me.
You *might* choose not to buy from AS's if you could loot armour, I would choose to continue buying from AS/WS's as I can guarantee a supply/quality. I need the quality to survive and for that they get loyal business. You also don't look at his opinion, just state that you can earn cash by grinding. This is about loot and his point mentions having to go to the extreme of being forced to ninja just to get a shot at nice loot. The poster isn't decrying your ability to craft - he is saying there's limited reason to play a combat character because it gets harder and harder to find reward commensurate with the challenge. Yeah - you might kill a big critter, but if it'll never pay out for you - then it's back to grinding missions to make cash (which for many isn't fun - note how few dedicated rangers there are in comparison to every other class - even though rangers can earn an easy 500k - 1mil an hour just killing nuna or carrion spats or the like). See a pattern forming?
I'd like to see more reward for small groups (2 - 4 players). Mission pay-outs are barely worth it any more. Unless the loot system changesto giving something of value to all the members of a group, then big groups yield no reward at all for rank-and-file players. It's just too expensive considering what you have to pay crafters and doctors (as deserved as those payments may be) to be able to even try.
Swg are one of the few games out there where i can start a new char and have a full set of armor, a decent weapon and a decent amount of cash form missions in a matter of 5 days, i can start a n00b char on any server and have that in under a week. I dont like surveying half the galaxy or using all my lots for harversters, making sure my vendors are stocked at all times, but i enjoy the crafting and i enjoy WS, so i do the boring part ot be able to do the fun part, thats what most combat players dont relize
Crafting isn't boring either. Although I was Bio Engineer and I went hunting down bizarre creatures and making weird combo's of DNA. You make it sound like putting harvesters down is difficult or a challenge. Or making a run from factory to vendor and sitting back is hard work. From experience I can state it's not... sometimes boring, but usually the knowledge that a few hours later I'd be sitting on x million (almost guaranteed) made me forget that thought. Plus you've avoided answering his question - he states reward for grouped play should be there. Mission payouts do not make for thrilled gamers. It's repetative and not challenging - and unless you are in a guild that treats you well, likelihood is you'll always be on the back burner for having the middle of the road loot. Getting a character to combat readiness from newbiedom in five days isn't looking at the solution... what happens when you made the grade of your first Elite profession and want to play with friends? You grind missions. Yeah - you'll make it back, but there's no incentive to enjoy the game, there is incentive to grind to Master ASAP and then ponder why you did it.
SWG is still the most fun I can have in a game. But if it's only fun for long for role-players and crafters, it won't stay profitable as people leave who prefer more action-oriented play-styles. I certainly don't want SWG to be a WoW-in-Star Wars-clothing, but there are some lessons WoW can teach SWG towards becoming the best it can be for a wider range of people. Too few and we'll lose it.
It's a tricky balancing act I hope the devs can tune up.
Sorry i might be wrong but all your post read to me was : I want money, lots of it fast with little effort
This is a cheap shot at a player to discredit their opinion (which is a valid one). Then again I've already admitted I'm probably just a simple goblin who likes shiny things. If you want the same analogy - yours reads like - I'ma crafter, don'tlet other people be able to enjoy a life of treasure hunting and playing because I like getting rich off them. I might well be wrong, but the risk vs reward scenario in the gameto me seemsvery disproportionate, and I can loot NS Elders, Krayt etc...
Spinnthrift wrote:
P__Day wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:
Roscannon wrote:
Ilcbar wrote:
I just wish that the loot my guild brought me I didn't have to laugh at. IMO looted components should be better80% of time than craftable components,
I have to disagree with you here. This game, as far as I know, was not meant to be a loot driven game. The player economy is based on a crafting system. If the looted components are better than what can be crafted 80% of the time then, frankly, nobody would want weapons/armor/whatever that were made entirely with crafted components. Plus, the items crafted with these loots would be "overpowered." I believe this is why they nerfed Krayt Tissue drop rates. Could be wrong though.
SWG won't survive if it only appeals to players who want to play crafters. Even though the crafting in SWG is more fun than any other MMORPG I've played, or read about, because of the player economy, still, for those who play combat roles, there should be valuable, effort-appropriate rewards as well.
You get to explore dungeons, can get loot from the dungeons, i mean i got tons of loot both from the geo cave and the DW bunker, you can sell base cores on the bazar, the looted geo cores have certain advantadges that most shortsighted combat toons dont see for instance Geo cores often have alot better range mods. Loot 1 yellow cube? have a ws make you a powerhammer with it, crafted geo cores come out better than the reg adv cores for teh most part.
As a veteran player myself - yes - the two dungeons you mentioned do drop loot, and if you camp it enough in sizeable amounts. However - the loot is *very* limited.Two weapons from DWB, one forSwordsman, that coincidentally happens to be the primary weapon loot from Geo too, the Acklay Bones for Power Hammers (and Gaffi's/Stun Batons). I didn't see aCarbine or Pike loot and the TK one was removed. If you look at the majorityof other dungeons however, they are limited in reward.
Couldn't the loot system spawn combatant-usable items (armor, weapons, etc.) that are just a bit lower than the quality available on advertised vendors. Or make them condition 1, requiring repair. Have the server do an averaging for various loot items compared to advertised vendor quality and dial it down just a tad, but not as far down as it is set now. Rewards are fun. Superficial, unusablerewards (for the majority of players) means less fun. Sure it's not the only fun, but we could always use more if it can be done in a way that doesn't actually ruin it for crafters.
The new enhance packs are good usable loot, + to speed or acc for a set time, what about crafters starting out? say a 0-2-0-2 WS trying to sell some cheap weapons on a bazar, or a starter AS trying to sell 6% kin mabari? the loot will now push them even more out from beign able to make a profit or even break even, since all hte combat toons buy from master's.
The start up AS or WS should not be looking to sell to Masters, they should be looking to sell to newer players. Yes - the game is unfortunate for them, but - if you'd spent literally months of your life collecting resources (the craft professions *can* but aren't guaranteed to be time consuming) you'd not want the Joe Sixpack who just started being able to craft better than you can. However - actually finding newbie's and equipping them and getting them to know your name takes commitment and effort - much like building up any business relationship would do.
He said to take that loot weapon stats to be slightly lower than the avridge on the registered vendors, how many starting crafters has a vendor on the planet map? and where do you draw the line of how good teh loot can get. A starting ws cant craft better d18's than the ones that are currently dropping.
Crafters can make plenty of profits through diligence and expertise, thanks to the player economy. The products of crafting are a mix of skill level and resources found and harvested (loot from the ground). Combatants (who are the crafters' customers, remember) currently have far fewer rewards for their diligence and expertise. Because of low mission pay-outs, loot is a big part of the potential for reward. Higher end loot, that requires more than a couple people, is really only attainable to very few players ever, since the loot system doesn't distribute loot in a group. Most players have zero chance of attaining that large group loot unless they play the much-hated ninja looter or are a guild leader. Most large group participants can only hope the leader likes them enough to let them have a few scraps from the king's table.
Combat chars can take up scout, there was a spawn of avian on my server selling for 250 cpu last week, some 200 or so cpu herb meat the week before. You can set up harvesters and sell grind or HQ resoruces. Get loot components crafters need, like geo cubes and so on. you can go to endor run 10k missions and have something like 200k credits and 20k meat in 3 hours thats a pretty nice profit in my oppinion. Like it or not, combat chars were never meant to make as much money as crafters and merchants. Its alot more work to play a crafter than a combat toon. I think loot should be in the form of things that enhace your combat skills for the most part, not items that can be crafted, since that rules out crafters. If i could loot armor for my combat toons even if it was a little worse than crafted i wouldnt buy armor from armorsmiths.
Here is where I disagree quite strongly with you... the majority of high end crafters that supply me, and that I supply with organics have lots of resources and lots of harvesters. They spent a few hours making schems, stock up shops and watch the credits roll in (then go play their combat toons for hours on end). When hunting for loot - you can spend hours without reward. Sure - I can grind missions off a terminal - but that gets real boring real fast. I'll concede that I don't have the inclination to set up a cash cow, but that shouldn't mean that I should be limited to finding posters and rewards that are effectively meaningless to me.
I agree with you you should be able to loot things that have meaning, but they need to not interfere with crafters, if someone can loot something almost as good as what can be crafted, whats the point in crafting? There is already alot of loot out there, if i go and hunt NS for 3 - 4 hours i always come out with a few crystals, some polearms with warrying stats, got 2x 200+ str mind poison last time, so loot is out there its just a matter of killing enough. i for one have never killed more than 3 krayt dragons and not gotten any loot.
You *might* choose not to buy from AS's if you could loot armour, I would choose to continue buying from AS/WS's as I can guarantee a supply/quality. I need the quality to survive and for that they get loyal business. You also don't look at his opinion, just state that you can earn cash by grinding. This is about loot and his point mentions having to go to the extreme of being forced to ninja just to get a shot at nice loot. The poster isn't decrying your ability to craft - he is saying there's limited reason to play a combat character because it gets harder and harder to find reward commensurate with the challenge. Yeah - you might kill a big critter, but if it'll never pay out for you - then it's back to grinding missions to make cash (which for many isn't fun - note how few dedicated rangers there are in comparison to every other class - even though rangers can earn an easy 500k - 1mil an hour just killing nuna or carrion spats or the like). See a pattern forming?
My alt is a swordsman/rifleman, i can kill almost any critter in the game, and to get good loot, i kill alot of them, and within the same time i spend to make on my crafter, i make the same or more on my loot char. Actually ive been a ws for 5 months, and my combat char which i made 3 weeks ago, has more money than my crafter, all gotten from loot. I have had dry spells where i went for a month without getting anything good, but those times were usually the times where i hunted loot less and crafted more
I'd like to see more reward for small groups (2 - 4 players). Mission pay-outs are barely worth it any more. Unless the loot system changesto giving something of value to all the members of a group, then big groups yield no reward at all for rank-and-file players. It's just too expensive considering what you have to pay crafters and doctors (as deserved as those payments may be) to be able to even try.
Swg are one of the few games out there where i can start a new char and have a full set of armor, a decent weapon and a decent amount of cash form missions in a matter of 5 days, i can start a n00b char on any server and have that in under a week. I dont like surveying half the galaxy or using all my lots for harversters, making sure my vendors are stocked at all times, but i enjoy the crafting and i enjoy WS, so i do the boring part ot be able to do the fun part, thats what most combat players dont relize
Crafting isn't boring either. Although I was Bio Engineer and I went hunting down bizarre creatures and making weird combo's of DNA. You make it sound like putting harvesters down is difficult or a challenge. Or making a run from factory to vendor and sitting back is hard work. From experience I can state it's not... sometimes boring, but usually the knowledge that a few hours later I'd be sitting on x million (almost guaranteed) made me forget that thought. Plus you've avoided answering his question - he states reward for grouped play should be there. Mission payouts do not make for thrilled gamers. It's repetative and not challenging - and unless you are in a guild that treats you well, likelihood is you'll always be on the back burner for having the middle of the road loot. Getting a character to combat readiness from newbiedom in five days isn't looking at the solution... what happens when you made the grade of your first Elite profession and want to play with friends? You grind missions. Yeah - you'll make it back, but there's no incentive to enjoy the game, there is incentive to grind to Master ASAP and then ponder why you did it.
I did BE for a long time, did you ever sample mutant rancors? with just expl mask scent and clothes? its difficult to say the least. placing the harvesters isnt hard, having to run around for 3 hours looking for high enough consentrations only to be told you cant place your harvester there when you find one is annoying and repeatative, i compare it to running missions. Going to track down the newest resource with 10 points more in OQ or CD or whatever other stat is the work.
SWG is still the most fun I can have in a game. But if it's only fun for long for role-players and crafters, it won't stay profitable as people leave who prefer more action-oriented play-styles. I certainly don't want SWG to be a WoW-in-Star Wars-clothing, but there are some lessons WoW can teach SWG towards becoming the best it can be for a wider range of people. Too few and we'll lose it.
It's a tricky balancing act I hope the devs can tune up.
Sorry i might be wrong but all your post read to me was : I want money, lots of it fast with little effort
This is a cheap shot at a player to discredit their opinion (which is a valid one). Then again I've already admitted I'm probably just a simple goblin who likes shiny things. If you want the same analogy - yours reads like - I'ma crafter, don'tlet other people be able to enjoy a life of treasure hunting and playing because I like getting rich off them. I might well be wrong, but the risk vs reward scenario in the gameto me seemsvery disproportionate, and I can loot NS Elders, Krayt etc...
I dont see the loot system as that bad, i kill enough critters i get good loot its that simple, if good loot dropped from high end mobs all the time id have 200+ legendary weapons with all the high end critters ive killed during my swg times (only critter not killed yet is the gorax due to not finding the thing ). I dont see anything wrong with wanting to get cash from other players with my crafter, and wouldnt you say that the people treasure hunting want to make cash of other players by selling the loot? I get offered krayt tissues to my vendor at prices where i can barely or cant make a profit with them due to combat toons overcharging for loot. take scythe schems for one, they go for a million pr schem, and i normally sell scythes at 400k. if i could get the schem for 10k id sell scythes at 6k on my vendor.
Cpl_Fisher wrote:I doubt that looted blaster rifle barrels will put a Master weaponsmith out of business, becuase they still has to assemble the weapon. That's my main beef about loots, I can understand not wanting to flood the market with finished weapons, but components? that wouldn't hurt crafters I don't think. It would even help aspiring crafters becuase they can handcraft individual weapons that could compete with factory runs of masters.
I don't think crafters would be against this if, and only if, loot of the same serial stacked. And looted components all came from a distinct serial groups (so that one yellow geo cube looted from one mob could be stacked with one from another mob if it was the of the same quality).
The problem now is storage. Most weaponsmiths use at least half of thier lots in storage houses to keep all the loot, crafted components and materials they need.
Roscannon wrote:
Ilcbar wrote:
I just wish that the loot my guild brought me I didn't have to laugh at. IMO looted components should be better80% of time than craftable components,
I have to disagree with you here. This game, as far as I know, was not meant to be a loot driven game. The player economy is based on a crafting system. If the looted components are better than what can be crafted 80% of the time then, frankly, nobody would want weapons/armor/whatever that were made entirely with crafted components. Plus, the items crafted with these loots would be "overpowered." I believe this is why they nerfed Krayt Tissue drop rates. Could be wrong though.
DND_Cas wrote:
Cpl_Fisher wrote:
I doubt that looted blaster rifle barrels will put a Master weaponsmith out of business, becuase they still has to assemble the weapon. That's my main beef about loots, I can understand not wanting to flood the market with finished weapons, but components? that wouldn't hurt crafters I don't think. It would even help aspiring crafters becuase they can handcraft individual weapons that could compete with factory runs of masters.
I don't think crafters would be against this if, and only if, loot of the same serial stacked. And looted components all came from a distinct serial groups (so that one yellow geo cube looted from one mob could be stacked with one from another mob if it was the of the same quality).
The problem now is storage. Most weaponsmiths use at least half of thier lots in storage houses to keep all the loot, crafted components and materials they need.
Actually most weaponsmith (at least those that have been one for more than a week) use a vendor for storage, it clears up lots for harvesters and makes all your components and resources easily accessable.
P__Day wrote:
Spinnthrift wrote:
P__Day wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:
Roscannon wrote:
Ilcbar wrote:
I just wish that the loot my guild brought me I didn't have to laugh at. IMO looted components should be better80% of time than craftable components,
I have to disagree with you here. This game, as far as I know, was not meant to be a loot driven game. The player economy is based on a crafting system. If the looted components are better than what can be crafted 80% of the time then, frankly, nobody would want weapons/armor/whatever that were made entirely with crafted components. Plus, the items crafted with these loots would be "overpowered." I believe this is why they nerfed Krayt Tissue drop rates. Could be wrong though.
SWG won't survive if it only appeals to players who want to play crafters. Even though the crafting in SWG is more fun than any other MMORPG I've played, or read about, because of the player economy, still, for those who play combat roles, there should be valuable, effort-appropriate rewards as well.
You get to explore dungeons, can get loot from the dungeons, i mean i got tons of loot both from the geo cave and the DW bunker, you can sell base cores on the bazar, the looted geo cores have certain advantadges that most shortsighted combat toons dont see for instance Geo cores often have alot better range mods. Loot 1 yellow cube? have a ws make you a powerhammer with it, crafted geo cores come out better than the reg adv cores for teh most part.
As a veteran player myself - yes - the two dungeons you mentioned do drop loot, and if you camp it enough in sizeable amounts. However - the loot is *very* limited.Two weapons from DWB, one forSwordsman, that coincidentally happens to be the primary weapon loot from Geo too, the Acklay Bones for Power Hammers (and Gaffi's/Stun Batons). I didn't see aCarbine or Pike loot and the TK one was removed. If you look at the majorityof other dungeons however, they are limited in reward.
Couldn't the loot system spawn combatant-usable items (armor, weapons, etc.) that are just a bit lower than the quality available on advertised vendors. Or make them condition 1, requiring repair. Have the server do an averaging for various loot items compared to advertised vendor quality and dial it down just a tad, but not as far down as it is set now. Rewards are fun. Superficial, unusablerewards (for the majority of players) means less fun. Sure it's not the only fun, but we could always use more if it can be done in a way that doesn't actually ruin it for crafters.
The new enhance packs are good usable loot, + to speed or acc for a set time, what about crafters starting out? say a 0-2-0-2 WS trying to sell some cheap weapons on a bazar, or a starter AS trying to sell 6% kin mabari? the loot will now push them even more out from beign able to make a profit or even break even, since all hte combat toons buy from master's.
The start up AS or WS should not be looking to sell to Masters, they should be looking to sell to newer players. Yes - the game is unfortunate for them, but - if you'd spent literally months of your life collecting resources (the craft professions *can* but aren't guaranteed to be time consuming) you'd not want the Joe Sixpack who just started being able to craft better than you can. However - actually finding newbie's and equipping them and getting them to know your name takes commitment and effort - much like building up any business relationship would do.
He said to take that loot weapon stats to be slightly lower than the avridge on the registered vendors, how many starting crafters has a vendor on the planet map? and where do you draw the line of how good teh loot can get. A starting ws cant craft better d18's than the ones that are currently dropping.
Crafters can make plenty of profits through diligence and expertise, thanks to the player economy. The products of crafting are a mix of skill level and resources found and harvested (loot from the ground). Combatants (who are the crafters' customers, remember) currently have far fewer rewards for their diligence and expertise. Because of low mission pay-outs, loot is a big part of the potential for reward. Higher end loot, that requires more than a couple people, is really only attainable to very few players ever, since the loot system doesn't distribute loot in a group. Most players have zero chance of attaining that large group loot unless they play the much-hated ninja looter or are a guild leader. Most large group participants can only hope the leader likes them enough to let them have a few scraps from the king's table.
Combat chars can take up scout, there was a spawn of avian on my server selling for 250 cpu last week, some 200 or so cpu herb meat the week before. You can set up harvesters and sell grind or HQ resoruces. Get loot components crafters need, like geo cubes and so on. you can go to endor run 10k missions and have something like 200k credits and 20k meat in 3 hours thats a pretty nice profit in my oppinion. Like it or not, combat chars were never meant to make as much money as crafters and merchants. Its alot more work to play a crafter than a combat toon. I think loot should be in the form of things that enhace your combat skills for the most part, not items that can be crafted, since that rules out crafters. If i could loot armor for my combat toons even if it was a little worse than crafted i wouldnt buy armor from armorsmiths.
Here is where I disagree quite strongly with you... the majority of high end crafters that supply me, and that I supply with organics have lots of resources and lots of harvesters. They spent a few hours making schems, stock up shops and watch the credits roll in (then go play their combat toons for hours on end). When hunting for loot - you can spend hours without reward. Sure - I can grind missions off a terminal - but that gets real boring real fast. I'll concede that I don't have the inclination to set up a cash cow, but that shouldn't mean that I should be limited to finding posters and rewards that are effectively meaningless to me.
I agree with you you should be able to loot things that have meaning, but they need to not interfere with crafters, if someone can loot something almost as good as what can be crafted, whats the point in crafting? There is already alot of loot out there, if i go and hunt NS for 3 - 4 hours i always come out with a few crystals, some polearms with warrying stats, got 2x 200+ str mind poison last time, so loot is out there its just a matter of killing enough. i for one have never killed more than 3 krayt dragons and not gotten any loot.
Read my previous post *please*... it can't be thathard can it?... stated I wanted to loot things like weaponsmith components etc... I'm not Jedi - crystals are just currency. Pikes - blah unless they're strong get junked. Shards (those little things AS's use to make armour that's light) now those are fun, I like collecting those and getting my guild AS and previously the AS who crafted me all my armour to play with. I'd like to loot worthwhile things, not cargo pockets or posters.
You *might* choose not to buy from AS's if you could loot armour, I would choose to continue buying from AS/WS's as I can guarantee a supply/quality. I need the quality to survive and for that they get loyal business. You also don't look at his opinion, just state that you can earn cash by grinding. This is about loot and his point mentions having to go to the extreme of being forced to ninja just to get a shot at nice loot. The poster isn't decrying your ability to craft - he is saying there's limited reason to play a combat character because it gets harder and harder to find reward commensurate with the challenge. Yeah - you might kill a big critter, but if it'll never pay out for you - then it's back to grinding missions to make cash (which for many isn't fun - note how few dedicated rangers there are in comparison to every other class - even though rangers can earn an easy 500k - 1mil an hour just killing nuna or carrion spats or the like). See a pattern forming?
My alt is a swordsman/rifleman, i can kill almost any critter in the game, and to get good loot, i kill alot of them, and within the same time i spend to make on my crafter, i make the same or more on my loot char. Actually ive been a ws for 5 months, and my combat char which i made 3 weeks ago, has more money than my crafter, all gotten from loot. I have had dry spells where i went for a month without getting anything good, but those times were usually the times where i hunted loot less and crafted more
If I could be bothered to kill Nuna all day long I'd make more money than I could as a looter by a long long way. However, if you truly believe that providing the organics to buff the rest of the server is a fun time, you need your head examined. Yeah - I can make *loads* more credits as a killer of weak creatures, however - it's not *fun*. You know - the reason why we play games.. for fun?
I'd like to see more reward for small groups (2 - 4 players). Mission pay-outs are barely worth it any more. Unless the loot system changesto giving something of value to all the members of a group, then big groups yield no reward at all for rank-and-file players. It's just too expensive considering what you have to pay crafters and doctors (as deserved as those payments may be) to be able to even try.
Swg are one of the few games out there where i can start a new char and have a full set of armor, a decent weapon and a decent amount of cash form missions in a matter of 5 days, i can start a n00b char on any server and have that in under a week. I dont like surveying half the galaxy or using all my lots for harversters, making sure my vendors are stocked at all times, but i enjoy the crafting and i enjoy WS, so i do the boring part ot be able to do the fun part, thats what most combat players dont relize
Crafting isn't boring either. Although I was Bio Engineer and I went hunting down bizarre creatures and making weird combo's of DNA. You make it sound like putting harvesters down is difficult or a challenge. Or making a run from factory to vendor and sitting back is hard work. From experience I can state it's not... sometimes boring, but usually the knowledge that a few hours later I'd be sitting on x million (almost guaranteed) made me forget that thought. Plus you've avoided answering his question - he states reward for grouped play should be there. Mission payouts do not make for thrilled gamers. It's repetative and not challenging - and unless you are in a guild that treats you well, likelihood is you'll always be on the back burner for having the middle of the road loot. Getting a character to combat readiness from newbiedom in five days isn't looking at the solution... what happens when you made the grade of your first Elite profession and want to play with friends? You grind missions. Yeah - you'll make it back, but there's no incentive to enjoy the game, there is incentive to grind to Master ASAP and then ponder why you did it.
I did BE for a long time, did you ever sample mutant rancors? with just expl mask scent and clothes? its difficult to say the least. placing the harvesters isnt hard, having to run around for 3 hours looking for high enough consentrations only to be told you cant place your harvester there when you find one is annoying and repeatative, i compare it to running missions. Going to track down the newest resource with 10 points more in OQ or CD or whatever other stat is the work.
No, I was too busy sampling Nightspider Queens and War Gronda Juggernauts to be bothered with Rancors.
SWG is still the most fun I can have in a game. But if it's only fun for long for role-players and crafters, it won't stay profitable as people leave who prefer more action-oriented play-styles. I certainly don't want SWG to be a WoW-in-Star Wars-clothing, but there are some lessons WoW can teach SWG towards becoming the best it can be for a wider range of people. Too few and we'll lose it.
It's a tricky balancing act I hope the devs can tune up.
Sorry i might be wrong but all your post read to me was : I want money, lots of it fast with little effort
This is a cheap shot at a player to discredit their opinion (which is a valid one). Then again I've already admitted I'm probably just a simple goblin who likes shiny things. If you want the same analogy - yours reads like - I'ma crafter, don'tlet other people be able to enjoy a life of treasure hunting and playing because I like getting rich off them. I might well be wrong, but the risk vs reward scenario in the gameto me seemsvery disproportionate, and I can loot NS Elders, Krayt etc...
I dont see the loot system as that bad, i kill enough critters i get good loot its that simple, if good loot dropped from high end mobs all the time id have 200+ legendary weapons with all the high end critters ive killed during my swg times (only critter not killed yet is the gorax due to not finding the thing ). I dont see anything wrong with wanting to get cash from other players with my crafter, and wouldnt you say that the people treasure hunting want to make cash of other players by selling the loot? I get offered krayt tissues to my vendor at prices where i can barely or cant make a profit with them due to combat toons overcharging for loot. take scythe schems for one, they go for a million pr schem, and i normally sell scythes at 400k. if i could get the schem for 10k id sell scythes at 6k on my vendor.
Loot firstly only sells at what people are willing to pay for it. If you can't make profit on Krayt'd weapons, by all means, don't buy the tissues - I'm sureother crafterscan make a good turnaround on them (At least on my server, if I don't offer components to my regulars they get really upset and they're in the 100 mill bank account marks and growing). Again - you avoid actually answering the statement, just saying how woe is you. *shrugs*
Think (and that means read and try and comprehend) - a world where SEA's etc dropped frequently (i.e. hunt NS for an hour - odds are you'd get one not broken one). Prices on them would go down, players wouldn't keep crates of pre-nerf Ubese shirts etc for sticking sockets in but could/would use them in regular armour etc. The gap between casual player and Joe pr0 would shrink. The market would deflate. Now apply this to all the other notorious and hyper notorious monsters in the game. Sure - you'd have lots more middle class lot, more Krayted weapons sure - but they'd be cheaper. Look at how Gorax shards are now almost worthless as *cash* but are fun to play with. Now apply that logic to Krayt.
Spinnthrift wrote:
P__Day wrote:
Spinnthrift wrote:
P__Day wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:
Roscannon wrote:
Ilcbar wrote:
I just wish that the loot my guild brought me I didn't have to laugh at. IMO looted components should be better80% of time than craftable components,
I have to disagree with you here. This game, as far as I know, was not meant to be a loot driven game. The player economy is based on a crafting system. If the looted components are better than what can be crafted 80% of the time then, frankly, nobody would want weapons/armor/whatever that were made entirely with crafted components. Plus, the items crafted with these loots would be "overpowered." I believe this is why they nerfed Krayt Tissue drop rates. Could be wrong though.
SWG won't survive if it only appeals to players who want to play crafters. Even though the crafting in SWG is more fun than any other MMORPG I've played, or read about, because of the player economy, still, for those who play combat roles, there should be valuable, effort-appropriate rewards as well.
You get to explore dungeons, can get loot from the dungeons, i mean i got tons of loot both from the geo cave and the DW bunker, you can sell base cores on the bazar, the looted geo cores have certain advantadges that most shortsighted combat toons dont see for instance Geo cores often have alot better range mods. Loot 1 yellow cube? have a ws make you a powerhammer with it, crafted geo cores come out better than the reg adv cores for teh most part.
As a veteran player myself - yes - the two dungeons you mentioned do drop loot, and if you camp it enough in sizeable amounts. However - the loot is *very* limited.Two weapons from DWB, one forSwordsman, that coincidentally happens to be the primary weapon loot from Geo too, the Acklay Bones for Power Hammers (and Gaffi's/Stun Batons). I didn't see aCarbine or Pike loot and the TK one was removed. If you look at the majorityof other dungeons however, they are limited in reward.
Couldn't the loot system spawn combatant-usable items (armor, weapons, etc.) that are just a bit lower than the quality available on advertised vendors. Or make them condition 1, requiring repair. Have the server do an averaging for various loot items compared to advertised vendor quality and dial it down just a tad, but not as far down as it is set now. Rewards are fun. Superficial, unusablerewards (for the majority of players) means less fun. Sure it's not the only fun, but we could always use more if it can be done in a way that doesn't actually ruin it for crafters.
The new enhance packs are good usable loot, + to speed or acc for a set time, what about crafters starting out? say a 0-2-0-2 WS trying to sell some cheap weapons on a bazar, or a starter AS trying to sell 6% kin mabari? the loot will now push them even more out from beign able to make a profit or even break even, since all hte combat toons buy from master's.
The start up AS or WS should not be looking to sell to Masters, they should be looking to sell to newer players. Yes - the game is unfortunate for them, but - if you'd spent literally months of your life collecting resources (the craft professions *can* but aren't guaranteed to be time consuming) you'd not want the Joe Sixpack who just started being able to craft better than you can. However - actually finding newbie's and equipping them and getting them to know your name takes commitment and effort - much like building up any business relationship would do.
He said to take that loot weapon stats to be slightly lower than the avridge on the registered vendors, how many starting crafters has a vendor on the planet map? and where do you draw the line of how good teh loot can get. A starting ws cant craft better d18's than the ones that are currently dropping.
Crafters can make plenty of profits through diligence and expertise, thanks to the player economy. The products of crafting are a mix of skill level and resources found and harvested (loot from the ground). Combatants (who are the crafters' customers, remember) currently have far fewer rewards for their diligence and expertise. Because of low mission pay-outs, loot is a big part of the potential for reward. Higher end loot, that requires more than a couple people, is really only attainable to very few players ever, since the loot system doesn't distribute loot in a group. Most players have zero chance of attaining that large group loot unless they play the much-hated ninja looter or are a guild leader. Most large group participants can only hope the leader likes them enough to let them have a few scraps from the king's table.
Combat chars can take up scout, there was a spawn of avian on my server selling for 250 cpu last week, some 200 or so cpu herb meat the week before. You can set up harvesters and sell grind or HQ resoruces. Get loot components crafters need, like geo cubes and so on. you can go to endor run 10k missions and have something like 200k credits and 20k meat in 3 hours thats a pretty nice profit in my oppinion. Like it or not, combat chars were never meant to make as much money as crafters and merchants. Its alot more work to play a crafter than a combat toon. I think loot should be in the form of things that enhace your combat skills for the most part, not items that can be crafted, since that rules out crafters. If i could loot armor for my combat toons even if it was a little worse than crafted i wouldnt buy armor from armorsmiths.
Here is where I disagree quite strongly with you... the majority of high end crafters that supply me, and that I supply with organics have lots of resources and lots of harvesters. They spent a few hours making schems, stock up shops and watch the credits roll in (then go play their combat toons for hours on end). When hunting for loot - you can spend hours without reward. Sure - I can grind missions off a terminal - but that gets real boring real fast. I'll concede that I don't have the inclination to set up a cash cow, but that shouldn't mean that I should be limited to finding posters and rewards that are effectively meaningless to me.
I agree with you you should be able to loot things that have meaning, but they need to not interfere with crafters, if someone can loot something almost as good as what can be crafted, whats the point in crafting? There is already alot of loot out there, if i go and hunt NS for 3 - 4 hours i always come out with a few crystals, some polearms with warrying stats, got 2x 200+ str mind poison last time, so loot is out there its just a matter of killing enough. i for one have never killed more than 3 krayt dragons and not gotten any loot.
Read my previous post *please*... it can't be thathard can it?... stated I wanted to loot things like weaponsmith components etc... I'm not Jedi - crystals are just currency. Pikes - blah unless they're strong get junked. Shards (those little things AS's use to make armour that's light) now those are fun, I like collecting those and getting my guild AS and previously the AS who crafted me all my armour to play with. I'd like to loot worthwhile things, not cargo pockets or posters.
You *might* choose not to buy from AS's if you could loot armour, I would choose to continue buying from AS/WS's as I can guarantee a supply/quality. I need the quality to survive and for that they get loyal business. You also don't look at his opinion, just state that you can earn cash by grinding. This is about loot and his point mentions having to go to the extreme of being forced to ninja just to get a shot at nice loot. The poster isn't decrying your ability to craft - he is saying there's limited reason to play a combat character because it gets harder and harder to find reward commensurate with the challenge. Yeah - you might kill a big critter, but if it'll never pay out for you - then it's back to grinding missions to make cash (which for many isn't fun - note how few dedicated rangers there are in comparison to every other class - even though rangers can earn an easy 500k - 1mil an hour just killing nuna or carrion spats or the like). See a pattern forming?
My alt is a swordsman/rifleman, i can kill almost any critter in the game, and to get good loot, i kill alot of them, and within the same time i spend to make on my crafter, i make the same or more on my loot char. Actually ive been a ws for 5 months, and my combat char which i made 3 weeks ago, has more money than my crafter, all gotten from loot. I have had dry spells where i went for a month without getting anything good, but those times were usually the times where i hunted loot less and crafted more
If I could be bothered to kill Nuna all day long I'd make more money than I could as a looter by a long long way. However, if you truly believe that providing the organics to buff the rest of the server is a fun time, you need your head examined. Yeah - I can make *loads* more credits as a killer of weak creatures, however - it's not *fun*. You know - the reason why we play games.. for fun?
I'd like to see more reward for small groups (2 - 4 players). Mission pay-outs are barely worth it any more. Unless the loot system changesto giving something of value to all the members of a group, then big groups yield no reward at all for rank-and-file players. It's just too expensive considering what you have to pay crafters and doctors (as deserved as those payments may be) to be able to even try.
Swg are one of the few games out there where i can start a new char and have a full set of armor, a decent weapon and a decent amount of cash form missions in a matter of 5 days, i can start a n00b char on any server and have that in under a week. I dont like surveying half the galaxy or using all my lots for harversters, making sure my vendors are stocked at all times, but i enjoy the crafting and i enjoy WS, so i do the boring part ot be able to do the fun part, thats what most combat players dont relize
Crafting isn't boring either. Although I was Bio Engineer and I went hunting down bizarre creatures and making weird combo's of DNA. You make it sound like putting harvesters down is difficult or a challenge. Or making a run from factory to vendor and sitting back is hard work. From experience I can state it's not... sometimes boring, but usually the knowledge that a few hours later I'd be sitting on x million (almost guaranteed) made me forget that thought. Plus you've avoided answering his question - he states reward for grouped play should be there. Mission payouts do not make for thrilled gamers. It's repetative and not challenging - and unless you are in a guild that treats you well, likelihood is you'll always be on the back burner for having the middle of the road loot. Getting a character to combat readiness from newbiedom in five days isn't looking at the solution... what happens when you made the grade of your first Elite profession and want to play with friends? You grind missions. Yeah - you'll make it back, but there's no incentive to enjoy the game, there is incentive to grind to Master ASAP and then ponder why you did it.
I did BE for a long time, did you ever sample mutant rancors? with just expl mask scent and clothes? its difficult to say the least. placing the harvesters isnt hard, having to run around for 3 hours looking for high enough consentrations only to be told you cant place your harvester there when you find one is annoying and repeatative, i compare it to running missions. Going to track down the newest resource with 10 points more in OQ or CD or whatever other stat is the work.
No, I was too busy sampling Nightspider Queens and War Gronda Juggernauts to be bothered with Rancors.
SWG is still the most fun I can have in a game. But if it's only fun for long for role-players and crafters, it won't stay profitable as people leave who prefer more action-oriented play-styles. I certainly don't want SWG to be a WoW-in-Star Wars-clothing, but there are some lessons WoW can teach SWG towards becoming the best it can be for a wider range of people. Too few and we'll lose it.
It's a tricky balancing act I hope the devs can tune up.
Sorry i might be wrong but all your post read to me was : I want money, lots of it fast with little effort
This is a cheap shot at a player to discredit their opinion (which is a valid one). Then again I've already admitted I'm probably just a simple goblin who likes shiny things. If you want the same analogy - yours reads like - I'ma crafter, don'tlet other people be able to enjoy a life of treasure hunting and playing because I like getting rich off them. I might well be wrong, but the risk vs reward scenario in the gameto me seemsvery disproportionate, and I can loot NS Elders, Krayt etc...
I dont see the loot system as that bad, i kill enough critters i get good loot its that simple, if good loot dropped from high end mobs all the time id have 200+ legendary weapons with all the high end critters ive killed during my swg times (only critter not killed yet is the gorax due to not finding the thing ). I dont see anything wrong with wanting to get cash from other players with my crafter, and wouldnt you say that the people treasure hunting want to make cash of other players by selling the loot? I get offered krayt tissues to my vendor at prices where i can barely or cant make a profit with them due to combat toons overcharging for loot. take scythe schems for one, they go for a million pr schem, and i normally sell scythes at 400k. if i could get the schem for 10k id sell scythes at 6k on my vendor.
Loot firstly only sells at what people are willing to pay for it. If you can't make profit on Krayt'd weapons, by all means, don't buy the tissues - I'm sureother crafterscan make a good turnaround on them (At least on my server, if I don't offer components to my regulars they get really upset and they're in the 100 mill bank account marks and growing). Again - you avoid actually answering the statement, just saying how woe is you. *shrugs*
Think (and that means read and try and comprehend) - a world where SEA's etc dropped frequently (i.e. hunt NS for an hour - odds are you'd get one not broken one). Prices on them would go down, players wouldn't keep crates of pre-nerf Ubese shirts etc for sticking sockets in but could/would use them in regular armour etc. The gap between casual player and Joe pr0 would shrink. The market would deflate. Now apply this to all the other notorious and hyper notorious monsters in the game. Sure - you'd have lots more middle class lot, more Krayted weapons sure - but they'd be cheaper. Look at how Gorax shards are now almost worthless as *cash* but are fun to play with. Now apply that logic to Krayt.
For all i care make the Krayt drop base tissues or segments with every single kill, but make it further between the "real" drops IE anything non base, you have people on almost every server that camps krayt, and what makes you think anyone else has a chance of getting a kill while they are in the graveyard. Make every single NPC that gets killed drop some form of loot, but you have to make sure that the loot does not compare to what can be crafted IE have a bonus to it and a negative, right now you have a couple of items acklay bones and krayt tissue which are mainly beneficial , krayting a gun for instance has only possitive effects, the acklay bones are a trade off damage for speed which is how i think looted components should work, add to one stat take from the other. The jabba themepark projectile barrels are a great example adds a little to damage makes teh gun slower.
Now the reason you cant count on making a profit on krayt weapons is that on my server atleast people do not buy non sliced enhanced weapons, few do anyway, most will only buy the high damage sliced weapons at a price where you can make a nice profit, the speed sliced or low damage sliced weapons end up going out with low to no profit. But im one of those who think that a 700+ acklay baton, krayted weapons, and so on should be a rarity, it shouldnt be the norm, hence why drop the low damage tissues or the low resist segs with each kill, and make the "good stuff" even more rare. They should also rarely drop in numbers of over 5 with the same serial, since seeing drops of 11 constantly would make for alot of Krayted T21's out there, and those are plenty deadly as it is. But then im one of those who thinks Crystals should drop from almost anything in low quality and keep the high quality ones like now.
When it comes to SEA's they should be rare in high numbers, the lower number ones should be in abundance up to say +3 should drop regularly and tons of them, the higher ones should be more rare, just like with tissues and other weapon components. And take it from someone who has looted way over his share of "rifile crawl speed +20, heavy weapon speed +10 that i belive SEA mods need to be looked at and attachments with mulitple mods need to have all mods stick
Basically make the whole loot deal a trade off, you get more loot, but things like tissues and segs drop in lower numbers so basically for 2 kills you get 2 x 3 base tissues or segs with diff serial instead of 6 same serial, would let everyone who hunts get a "reward" but not overdrop loot.
In my oppinion items crafted with no enhancement should be the norm among player's, the enhanced items should be a reward, if you helped take down a krayt dragon, well you deserve to have a gun thats krayted, but that also means making krayt a rare very hard to kill spawn, unlike now when i can tear one to shreds solo in under 8 minutes. To make a loot system where things were dropped like this by high end creatures in a combat system where they can be killed like deer in a crossfire whould make the seemingly "rare" objects much to common. Also id like to add Joe Pr0 should beat every casual player and have a nice advantadge on him simply for time invested.