Items And Loot Archive
Thread: letter to the developers spawn camping issues
badlandssunrunner
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:10 am
#14
I sent in a report to the csr and the responce was we at
swg are aware of campers and there is nothing wrong
with camping if you want the loot you have to outdamage
the people camping there . csr patrick....
Welp the problem with that is most people cant outdamage
the campers. Are you trying to say that only a few combat
proffessions should be rewarded and I should drop mine and
relearn and new proffesion ? Somehow i dont think this is
the right fix to the problem .
Lets examine this if 33% of the server was swordsman and
33% were rifleman or 33% were commandos would the !%
that was left be able to cover the rest of the professions ?
Patrick this kind of typical response from Csr's is part of the
problem that swg has suffered from since day one. Instead
of trying to make the situation better you encorage the problems
and then things get worse people get mad and leave the game.
Heres a thought instead of putting all the high end ca and aa on
the bosses scattered them all over the game with all the mobs
so that way everyone at least has a chance at some decent stuff
and watch how quick the campers go away .
Please fix this problem SWG you know this is a hot issue in the
game and has been from the start . Its an easy fix stop rewarding
the few for bad attitudes poor sportsmanship and above all keeping
the majority poor and lootless while a few that can outdamage the
others have all the nicer items in the game.
ObiQuixote
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:52 am
#15
Only merchants and artisans can have vendors
badlandssunrunner wrote:...Welp the problem with that is most people cant outdamagethe campers. Are you trying to say that only a few combatproffessions should be rewarded and I should drop mine andrelearn and new proffesion ...
Only weapon smiths can make good weapons
Only entertainers can buff mind.
Some professions are better at some things then others. There are professions that are really good at PvP and some are better at PvE. Then there are ones that are good and loot rights and some professions just suck at everything. The point is you can’t do everything with a single toon. You need to pick what it is that is most important to you and move forward from there. We all start with a blank slate and the choices we make along the way affect what we can do.
If loot rights are the most important thing to you, yes you need to relearn a profession. Just like if you decided you wanted to make weapons you would have to learn weapon smith.
EvilSpongeBob
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:01 am
#16
I'm hoping the CU fixes this. No one person should be able to continually hold/outdamage any other person (Any Master Profession Combat skilled)for a period of time on a given mob, it's just not condusive to the life of a game. This kind of thing just feeds the Power Player and pisses off the casual player. One of the advantages the Power Players have over everyone else is the best items, since they are that type of player they can acquire the best damage weapons and the best SEA's and those of us that are hunting for those same SEAs in those locations will never stand a chance. Most of the PPs (Power Players) are there to simply sell the items to make credits anyway.
The only thing I see to fix this is t oreduce the effectiveness of the solo player, for these types of situations they should be required to be group content.
When I went down to check out Nyax, I encountered two groups, one group was gracious enough to let me and my friend in the group, we all stated what types of SEAs we would like before the next Nyax spawn and if any item we specified we'd get it. I suggest this type of cooperation on your servers until a better solution is achieved. Appeal to the masses on your server, as the CSRs will do nothing about it, it's up to our individual communities to take care of it.
badlandssunrunner
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:01 am
#17
Your reply adressing support for the campers is not a solution for the
problem as a whole.......
The issues is about makeing it so that everyone has an equal chance
to get the nicer items not about who or what proffession can outdamage
the other to get the loot.
No matter how hard you guys try Swg was not meant to be a pvp player
game only. Many people here only enjoy the pve aspect of the game ....
As an active PvE type of player due to all the poor sportsmanship gank squads
loud mouths and generaly poor atitude from pvp people added to the fact I dont like
forced pvp I dont feel I should be penalised becuz i dont have some uber pvp
toon that can outdamage everyone .
Some of us are crafters ...... Some of us prefer to solo..... Not eveyone wants to
have to depend on groups or freinds to get items to make our proffesions better.
While I can understand groups for krayts and the vette and higher end adventures.
I dont feel that the solo players should be left out of the loop for the benefit of the few
PvP lunatics......
ObiQuixote
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:36 am
#18
You do have an equal chance, we all do. We all started with blank toons and a CDEF class weapon.
badlandssunrunner wrote:
...The issues is about makeing it so that everyone has an equal chance to get the nicer items not about who or what proffession can outdamage the other to get the loot....
...No matter how hard you guys try Swg was not meant to be a pvp player game only. Many people here only enjoy the pve aspect of the game ....
The only difference between the power gamer and the casual gamer is it takes the casual gamer longer to get to the same point as a power gamer. If two people do the same job but one works 40 hours a week and one works 5, should they get the same paycheck? No they shouldn't. It's not fair to the person that put in 40 hours. It's the same in a single player RPG. It takes a certain amount of work to get to a certain point. If you play 5 hours week it will take you roughly 4 weeks to get to the same point as someone who played 40 hours in one week. Friendly to the casual gamer doesn't mean no matter how much work you put in everyone gets the same reward. It means you can have fun playing the game only 5 hours a week.
SWG may not be meant to be PvP only game, but it's not a single player game we just all play side by side. It's a society and just like real life you have to deal with the good bad and the ugly in everyone else around you. A lot of the addictive qualities of the game, why we keep coming back and paying $15 a month is the quest to have neater stuff then the person next to us. That’s why the camper camps and why your mad about it. He's getting neater stuff then you and you want the neat stuff to.
Which brings me to greed. There is no difference between the camper and the person who complains about the camper. They are both being greedy. Just that one person has done a better job at fulfilling their greed.
Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 02-01-2005 10:44 AM
arll
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:46 am
#19
POI's on a server with thousands of players should not be dominated by a handful (4 or 5) players
or by a particular guild that thinks it owns everyPOI it camps.
i would rather see the poi's turned into no loot badge only quests and the good loot spread out on the server
on randomly generated high end npc's than this current fiasco.
points of intrest have become points of frustration and anger and moreover greed.
WAKE UP S.O.E
DarkY0da
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:52 am
#20
Here is a little something I pulled from another forum here CLICKY
/Quote
Hello Dears!
Today I am going to talk about a subject that is on the minds of many of us these days: unattendence. But instead of talking about unattendence in terms of the cantina as we usually do, I want to talk about unattendence in places outside the cantina. Because while all the glassy-eyed girls are in the cantina making all of your blue balls--I mean--blue bars rise to attention, their brothers are apparently hard at work in places like Lord Nyax's stronghold, or the Geonosian bunker, or the Borgle Cave.
This has caused some of our patrons some distress as of late. Because these unattended individuals are working so hard in fact that they never seem to leave these places. And because of this, they are pulling many rare paintings, Ackly bones, weapon experimentation tapes, and many other priceless artifacts out of these bunkers, which eventually end up on vendors all over the galaxy, or on the auction forums for millions and millions of credits.
Now unattended millionaires are nothing new, as any established buffbot owner can tell you. And indeed, it has caused me and others like me much distress to encounter the reality that unattended players are taking away our roles, content, and fun in this simulation...and making millions off of it. But as numerous players have informed me and all of the other cantina professionals ad nauseum, such feelings are selfish of me to harbor. Many of our patrons argue that we should love unattended characters, and treat them with all the due consideration for all the hard work they do on behalf of guilds, individuals, and the server as a whole. After all dears, unattended characters that mimic the actions of players is something that is a protected act under the EULA and TOS, and it really doesn't matter if the unattended character doesn't ever stop doing what it is doing.
But as someone who belongs to a profession that has had to deal with the effects of unattended routinization of our functions, I would just like to share with you some reasons that were given to me as to why I need to accept unattended characters that do my functions, and why you in the field need to accept unattended characters doing your functions as well.
For we have to understand that the POIs are boring, leveling is boring, and looting is boring. And we should be sympathetic to the player who wants to be of service to their guild and the galaxy as a whole, but sees no point in watching their character shoot all day. Besides, unattended looting allows the player to stop and make a sandwich once and awhile, or put in a full day of work at the factory, and be assured that their inventory and experience bars will be full at the days end. I feel safe at night knowing unattended characters are keeping me safe from Lord Nyax 24 hours a day, even when the owner of the character is asleep. After all, if a player only has a limited amount of time to play each day, they want to spend it doing "important things," like blowing up your base, or forming gank squads to deal with your jedi. What better way to earn the skills they need to defeat your jedi than to do it via macro in a POI?
And we should never forget that unattended characters provide a much needed service to the galaxy, assuring that loot is generated in the game world 24 hours a day, seven days a week. More loot is a good thing, especially for the player with limited time. The services unattended looters provide ensure that a lot of loot is available to everybody, and certain loots, such as locked contaners, are so available that they can usually be given away for free! Because you have to understand dears, we need loot to tackle high-end content. We need the XP to tackle high end content. And AFK camping allows players to get these things in abundance. Why should I have to go to vendor after vendor to find what I am looking for, wasting time, when I can go to an unattended looter's vendor and be assured I'm going to find a lot of nice things?
It would be nice if actual players satisfied the demand for loot, but let's face it. You boys aren't cutting the mustard. Unattended looters can get the galaxies more loot then you ever can, and so I think it is a good thing to leave loot grabbing to the professionals that work so hard for us, freeing us all up to do important things.
Now many of you may be saying to yourselves, "this isn't fair! players aren't supposed to be in one place killing and looting the same thing 24/7." But as I was told on numerous occasions, we must not think ill of other players who happen to play a different way than we do. Unattended looting is protected under the EULA and TOS, and their $15 a month gives them every right to create a character so useful to their other accounts and their guild. Who are we to say that they can't do something so beneficial and useful to your galaxy?
As players have told me ad nauseum, AFK play hurts nobody, and any feeling we may have that its not fair is in the big picture selfish and closed-minded. There are times that the high traffic cantina of Coronet had an unattended player sitting there 24/7, and this made me upset. But the fact that the cantina at Doaba Gurfeil did not have an unattended player means I can go there instead! And its the same for when an unattended player is at Lord Nyax's cave. Why not go instead to the Ahfaraahtu cave? Or the Drall cave? These places give out so little XP and loot, its frankly not worth a loot camper's time to go there.
And I have been told that a lot of a live player's problem when dealing with unattended players boils down to their own laziness. I have been told that the reason live dancers can't get rewarded in the cantina is because the buffbot is just plain better than we are. Same thing for the players in the caves, I guess. They can't out damage the AFKer, so they get upset and want the developers to step in and mitigate their shortcomings. That's just plain unfair to all the individuals and guilds that depend on unattended POI camping, and we have no right to do it. I have been told repeatedly that live players who want to kick AFKers out of the things they like to do only care about shoving their own playstyle down everyone else's throat, and are unwilling or unable to do what the game has now demanded of them. Nothing is preventing you from doing the same things, and the spawn camper out on Rori at 3 AM is hurting absolutely nobody. So we should stop being so selfish, and come to the understanding that there are much more important things to consider in this game than your own happiness. If you don't like the fact that unattended spawn campers are looting, then don't buy the loot. Let your enemies buy the DOT weapons, +25% skilltapes, and giant dune Kimloga scales instead.
But it all boils down to the fact that unattended characters have just as much right to do what they do, and if we cannot play with them around, I was told by many players that we need to stop whining and quit. Those that have benefitted from having unattended characters do player things have said they will cancel their accounts of SOE does anything to mitigate unattendedness, will discover ways to continue systematic unattendence, or will lobby hard to keep unattendence. Players who systematically create and use unattended characters have assured me that we cannot win on this issue, and if the players who come here and explain these things to me are correct, we shouldn't win. Because they take great pains to tell us dancers regularly that there are far more important things to worry about than making sure that player activities are reserved for players.
And if we don't like it, its best to quit. That was the option that was given to us as dancers, and many have followed this advice.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 02-01-2005 11:40 AM
/endquote
/Quote
Hello Dears!
Today I am going to talk about a subject that is on the minds of many of us these days: unattendence. But instead of talking about unattendence in terms of the cantina as we usually do, I want to talk about unattendence in places outside the cantina. Because while all the glassy-eyed girls are in the cantina making all of your blue balls--I mean--blue bars rise to attention, their brothers are apparently hard at work in places like Lord Nyax's stronghold, or the Geonosian bunker, or the Borgle Cave.
This has caused some of our patrons some distress as of late. Because these unattended individuals are working so hard in fact that they never seem to leave these places. And because of this, they are pulling many rare paintings, Ackly bones, weapon experimentation tapes, and many other priceless artifacts out of these bunkers, which eventually end up on vendors all over the galaxy, or on the auction forums for millions and millions of credits.
Now unattended millionaires are nothing new, as any established buffbot owner can tell you. And indeed, it has caused me and others like me much distress to encounter the reality that unattended players are taking away our roles, content, and fun in this simulation...and making millions off of it. But as numerous players have informed me and all of the other cantina professionals ad nauseum, such feelings are selfish of me to harbor. Many of our patrons argue that we should love unattended characters, and treat them with all the due consideration for all the hard work they do on behalf of guilds, individuals, and the server as a whole. After all dears, unattended characters that mimic the actions of players is something that is a protected act under the EULA and TOS, and it really doesn't matter if the unattended character doesn't ever stop doing what it is doing.
But as someone who belongs to a profession that has had to deal with the effects of unattended routinization of our functions, I would just like to share with you some reasons that were given to me as to why I need to accept unattended characters that do my functions, and why you in the field need to accept unattended characters doing your functions as well.
For we have to understand that the POIs are boring, leveling is boring, and looting is boring. And we should be sympathetic to the player who wants to be of service to their guild and the galaxy as a whole, but sees no point in watching their character shoot all day. Besides, unattended looting allows the player to stop and make a sandwich once and awhile, or put in a full day of work at the factory, and be assured that their inventory and experience bars will be full at the days end. I feel safe at night knowing unattended characters are keeping me safe from Lord Nyax 24 hours a day, even when the owner of the character is asleep. After all, if a player only has a limited amount of time to play each day, they want to spend it doing "important things," like blowing up your base, or forming gank squads to deal with your jedi. What better way to earn the skills they need to defeat your jedi than to do it via macro in a POI?
And we should never forget that unattended characters provide a much needed service to the galaxy, assuring that loot is generated in the game world 24 hours a day, seven days a week. More loot is a good thing, especially for the player with limited time. The services unattended looters provide ensure that a lot of loot is available to everybody, and certain loots, such as locked contaners, are so available that they can usually be given away for free! Because you have to understand dears, we need loot to tackle high-end content. We need the XP to tackle high end content. And AFK camping allows players to get these things in abundance. Why should I have to go to vendor after vendor to find what I am looking for, wasting time, when I can go to an unattended looter's vendor and be assured I'm going to find a lot of nice things?
It would be nice if actual players satisfied the demand for loot, but let's face it. You boys aren't cutting the mustard. Unattended looters can get the galaxies more loot then you ever can, and so I think it is a good thing to leave loot grabbing to the professionals that work so hard for us, freeing us all up to do important things.
Now many of you may be saying to yourselves, "this isn't fair! players aren't supposed to be in one place killing and looting the same thing 24/7." But as I was told on numerous occasions, we must not think ill of other players who happen to play a different way than we do. Unattended looting is protected under the EULA and TOS, and their $15 a month gives them every right to create a character so useful to their other accounts and their guild. Who are we to say that they can't do something so beneficial and useful to your galaxy?
As players have told me ad nauseum, AFK play hurts nobody, and any feeling we may have that its not fair is in the big picture selfish and closed-minded. There are times that the high traffic cantina of Coronet had an unattended player sitting there 24/7, and this made me upset. But the fact that the cantina at Doaba Gurfeil did not have an unattended player means I can go there instead! And its the same for when an unattended player is at Lord Nyax's cave. Why not go instead to the Ahfaraahtu cave? Or the Drall cave? These places give out so little XP and loot, its frankly not worth a loot camper's time to go there.
And I have been told that a lot of a live player's problem when dealing with unattended players boils down to their own laziness. I have been told that the reason live dancers can't get rewarded in the cantina is because the buffbot is just plain better than we are. Same thing for the players in the caves, I guess. They can't out damage the AFKer, so they get upset and want the developers to step in and mitigate their shortcomings. That's just plain unfair to all the individuals and guilds that depend on unattended POI camping, and we have no right to do it. I have been told repeatedly that live players who want to kick AFKers out of the things they like to do only care about shoving their own playstyle down everyone else's throat, and are unwilling or unable to do what the game has now demanded of them. Nothing is preventing you from doing the same things, and the spawn camper out on Rori at 3 AM is hurting absolutely nobody. So we should stop being so selfish, and come to the understanding that there are much more important things to consider in this game than your own happiness. If you don't like the fact that unattended spawn campers are looting, then don't buy the loot. Let your enemies buy the DOT weapons, +25% skilltapes, and giant dune Kimloga scales instead.
But it all boils down to the fact that unattended characters have just as much right to do what they do, and if we cannot play with them around, I was told by many players that we need to stop whining and quit. Those that have benefitted from having unattended characters do player things have said they will cancel their accounts of SOE does anything to mitigate unattendedness, will discover ways to continue systematic unattendence, or will lobby hard to keep unattendence. Players who systematically create and use unattended characters have assured me that we cannot win on this issue, and if the players who come here and explain these things to me are correct, we shouldn't win. Because they take great pains to tell us dancers regularly that there are far more important things to worry about than making sure that player activities are reserved for players.
And if we don't like it, its best to quit. That was the option that was given to us as dancers, and many have followed this advice.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 02-01-2005 11:40 AM
/endquote
ObiQuixote
Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:57 am
#21
The "If I can't get it then no one should argument."
arll wrote:
...i would rather see the poi's turned into no loot badge only quests and the good loot spread out on the server
That's greed as well.
But your right about spreading the loot out some more, and it has been to a certain extent. A lot of stuff is dropping off of mission NPC's and what not throughout the galaxy now. Not the greatest stuff on average, but I've had a lot fun traveling around seeing what drops what these days.
But no matter where you put the best loot that’s where the competition will be at.
DanoCollins
Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:00 pm
#22
ObiQuixote wrote:
You do have an equal chance, we all do. We all started with blank toons and a CDEF class weapon.
badlandssunrunner wrote:
...The issues is about makeing it so that everyone has an equal chance to get the nicer items not about who or what proffession can outdamage the other to get the loot....
...No matter how hard you guys try Swg was not meant to be a pvp player game only. Many people here only enjoy the pve aspect of the game ....
The only difference between the power gamer and the casual gamer is it takes the casual gamer longer to get to the same point as a power gamer. If two people do the same job but one works 40 hours a week and one works 5, should they get the same paycheck? No they shouldn't. It's not fair to the person that put in 40 hours. It's the same in a single player RPG. It takes a certain amount of work to get to a certain point. If you play 5 hours week it will take you roughly 4 weeks to get to the same point as someone who played 40 hours in one week. Friendly to the casual gamer doesn't mean no matter how much work you put in everyone gets the same reward. It means you can have fun playing the game only 5 hours a week.
SWG may not be meant to be PvP only game, but it's not a single player game we just all play side by side. It's a society and just like real life you have to deal with the good bad and the ugly in everyone else around you. A lot of the addictive qualities of the game, why we keep coming back and paying $15 a month is the quest to have neater stuff then the person next to us. That’s why the camper camps and why your mad about it. He's getting neater stuff then you and you want the neat stuff to.
Which brings me to greed. There is no difference between the camper and the person who complains about the camper. They are both being greedy. Just that one person has done a better job at fulfilling their greed.
Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 02-01-2005 10:44 AM
/clap, clap, clap!
"Which brings me to greed. There is no difference between the camper and the person who complains about the camper. They are both being greedy. Just that one person has done a better job at fulfilling their greed."
BINGO!
Those who complain about this want the same item as the camper, but since the camper can't be outdamaged, they have to complain about the camper being there, stealing "their" loot.
No one in this game has a right to any of the POI content on an individual basis...we simply don't. I used to complain about the campers, but then I saved my credits and bought a good hammer and added some FS tree speed. I will run down to a POI, check it out, try a damage run and see if I get rights. I usually do, and depending on the attitude of who is there with me, I will be a nice guy and share the loot, or I will outdamage you all day long for 10 years if you are an a-hole about it.
Message Edited by DanoCollins on 02-01-2005 11:03 AM
arll
Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:10 pm
#23
people complaining about campers are greedy?, no, they are complaining that a piece of the game is being dominated by a small group of players.
we are forever hearing about how this is a game and it should be fair for all sides, except for the poi's i take it.
my point is that a poi in a game that is there for 10,000 players is not much use when 9996 of them don't get a chance.
ObiQuixote
Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:46 pm
#24
I really don’t think this is about content. There’s tons of content for people to do, quest themeparks, run a business, works towards a Jedi or go to POI’s without the most sought after loot. No one cared about this POI before the patch. Nine times out of ten the place would be fully spawned when I went to it.
arll wrote:people complaining about campers are greedy?, no, they are complaining that a piece of the game is being dominated by a small group of players.we are forever hearing about how this is a game and it should be fair for all sides, except for the poi's i take it.my point is that a poi in a game that is there for 10,000 players is not much use when 9996 of them don't get a chance.
This is about the loot and if the best place to loot is a static spawn it’s going to be a competition. Not a buff line you can stand around and go “Is it my turn yet?”
That’s just the reality of the situation, the best loot is going to be gated in some manner. Not everyone will be able to get it nor should it be easy to get. The best loot will always be guarded by something that excludes 99% of the people from getting it. In this case it’s other players.
Sifer2
Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:54 pm
#25
Yes I do believe this issue needs to be looked at since currently it turns PvE into PvP. People should'nt have to fight over loot even if its inderect fighting. That goes against the concept of PvE. Sure the few super rich guys with enhanced weaponry might enjoy competeting with the other guys like them but ultimately this leaves everyone else out in the cold. Only allowing access to that content toa select few hurts the game overall since there isnt much content to begin with. I suggest either a mechanic to kick people after a boss mob kill or possibly a system of increasinly more difficultspawns that heaviliy discourages camping like the old Fort Tusken.
arll
Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:54 pm
#26
if loot is gated by game mechanics that is fair enough, being gated by players refusing to give up "their" spot is not.
poi's are for everyone.