Game Guides Archive

Thread: Making it meaningful [sorta long]

Calem
Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:54 am
#1

SWG is a game that I really do love and hate. When this game excels, it does so with flying colours. Unfortunately, those highs are often squashed by the lows which makes me feel like it's time to take a break and revisit the game down the road so it feels fresh again (and hopefully by then some key features will be fixed).


This probably isn't the proper place to offer a few parting suggestions, but where else would it go as I have some ideas that span multiple game systems? Anyway...


Ultimately, this game (for me at least) has lost meaning and purpose. The reason for this is that what I expected as an endgame isn't there. For some it's becoming a Jedi, others it's just being rich, and for most it's good friends - for me it includes those elements but it really boils down to the GCW. The sub-title for the game is An Empire Divided, but where is the division? Here are a few suggestions that I feel would have made the game better in terms of PvP while tying into PvE (note- I think of PvP as factional based warfare, like DAoC's RvR):


Planets


  • Make planets factionally aligned (Rebel, Imperial or Neutral (neutral including sub-factions like Hutt, CorSec, etc.)

  • Make it where players can control the alignment of planets by capturing the planet

  • Planetary invasion begins by securing the space zone around the planet (this is where JtL fits in with a purpose) allowing for ground forces to be shuttled in

  • Have combat between the factions take place in the battlegrounds (say have 3 battlegrounds per planet) and the factionally aligned bases that appear on the surface

  • Once all 3 battle grounds have been captured, the invading faction can then try and capture the capitol city... once captured the planet then becomes aligned to the victors

  • The resources on that planet then can be mined by the controlling faction at normal cost, neutrals will be a little higher in terms of cost, but the opposing faction would have to place mining installations out of the way as their mining operations would be open to looting, or possibly risk being shut down if discovered by the controlling NPCs

  • Smugglers increase the ability of moving players and illegally mined cargo to and from a factionally controlled planet

  • Only certain resources spawn on planets that can be controlled by factions... these resources are what make the difference between say an average gun and a really good gun

  • Have certain planets always set as non-attackable to work as a safe haven for players (Naboo as Imperial, Tatooine and Corellia as neutral (with sub factions),and Rori possibly as Rebel) with certain planets as full PvP and uncontrolable (in this timeline I would venture to say Yavin as that is the area where the most recent conflict and salvage operations exist)

  • Safe planets can have players attack other players, but once a player has been killed, they can then report the attack to the local authorities which will in turn spawn the police force to hunt down the attacker or allow a player to set up a bounty on the attackers head

  • A rebel can attempt to visit an imperial planet, but they are open to attack by factional NPCs and players

  • Planets can also be swayed to a factional alignment based on a politicians involment in the planetary government possibly? Somehow making the planet more receptive to an opposing factions presence allowing for a bypass of having to take the capital by force once the battlegrounds have been conquered?

General GCW



  • Get rid of TEFs and make the ability to attack someone dependent on what planet or zone they are in

  • Make factional items wearable anytime by members of the faction (they would be safe to PvE in factional armor on their home planets, but if they are wearing factional equipment on an enemy planet they are immediately open to attack, whereas someone in plain clothes has a chance of going undetected... have it like the storm troopers searching players today... but if they are caught, they become attackable in that zone)

  • Improve Imperial and Marine armor to be on par with composite

  • Since everyone and their grandma is walking around in factional flightsuits, why not have the reward flight suit from the themepark wearable at all times? I mean really, having a +5 to terrrain negotiation isn't going to unbalance the game

  • Give rank meaning

  • Implement a web-based system where people can view the status of the GCW on their server (like DAoC's implementation with zones held, best guilds, players, most kills in a week, etc...). This will fuel competition

JtL



  • Make steps in the uber long tier 3 missions saveable... no one should have to have 2 hours of their game time go to waste because they failed on the last step of mission

  • See Planets for involment in the GCW

General



  • Get rid of the current HAM system

  • Health should dictate if you are alive or dead

  • Action should dictate if you can perform specials (once your action runs out... nothing but the standard attacks are available) or how long you can entertain, burst run, etc.

  • Mind should determine if you are able to heal or how often you can perform certain tasks (craft, slice, etc... once you've done too much crafting, it's time to take a break)

  • BF should determine the amount of damage you can do or take... once your BF is high, you just aren't as effective in combat and it's time for some RnR

  • Fix belts and bandoliers on female characters so they don't look like hoola hoops frozen in mid air

  • Fix the cliping on clothing while you are moving (extremely revealing skirt for example... looks great while you're standing still... otherwise, blech)

  • Fix lighting in the main room of a medium Naboo house (ever notice that the lights and candles have no effect on the furniture or avatars in the room? Or that if you turn your personal torch on (CTRL+L) only the walls are lit up? Very sad)

  • Fix warping and rubber banding (so glad this has been reintroduced recently... one second a mob is beside me the next it's 100m away)

  • Fix the invulnerability on mobs that are near dead and decide to peace and run away... I mean what the hell is up with that? Why do I have to retarget a mob once it has decided it doesn't want to fight anymore before it will take damage again? Wish it worked the same way for me when I'm fighting an Elder

  • Allow for more than one character per server... I've established friends on a server, I don't want to have to go to another server just to try something new and start all over again

  • Rework buffing to be scaled down... it should enhance a player, not make them god like

I realize the thoughts above are rather random. They are meant more to open discussions to implement changes thataredesparately needed in my mind. I've been here sincethe beginning and I want to stay because of all of the good things SWG has to offer (character developement, high end PvE content (but you can only do them so many times before it becomes boring), certain quests, housing, mounts/vehicles/space ships, cantinas and the entertainer professions). I want the game have meaning, and have my character given the ability to sway how newer characters evolve and/or benefit because of my envolement in the civil war - be it as entertainer, crafter, jedi, pilot or soldier.


Well, those are my thoughts at the moment (forgot to mention... please focus on existing bugs as opposed to adding more fluff like the loot revamp). My accounts are still open until the end of January so I'll be around to talk on the boards and maintain my characters. But I won't be logging in as much to play where therearen't any 'real' goals. I'm sure I'll return anyway once I've had a break... I just really want this game to be awesome all around and not just really good in certain aspects and really bad in others.


Be well and I'll see everyone soon I hope!




Cailette Buch(anan)
· Master Combat Medic
· Imperial Colonel/Imperial Inquisition Squadron
· Singing Mountain Clan wannabe
· Smuggler at heart




Rob_Banzai
Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:16 am
#2

Thanks for all those suggestions. Have a good break and I hope you come back!
GrimBear
Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:17 am
#3


Not everyone likes to PvP. Theres a whole host of people with different ideas of what they want out of a MMORPG/MMOG. If a game closes too tightly in on one aspect of what people want from a game, it alienates those that are not so interested in that aspect.


Your design is very much a heavy PvP environment where half of the game becomes a PvP arena. more development time is spent on PvP instead of other aspects. Those that don't like PvP or only PvP on a very casual basis will inevitably start to feel left out. Those who choose a faction for PvE but don't PvP suddenly find they can't go to a lot of places and then they start to feel bad. What you quickly end up with is that non-pvpers soon drift off to other games and you have a huge impact on your gaming numbers to the point of the game becoming less economical to run and an eventual shutdown is in order.


As much as the idea you present may be fantastic for PvP lovers ... it is not practical. For aMMORPG/MMOG tokeep beingsuccessful it must be able to cater for as larger target audience as possible ... not a small target audience. Basically its about balance.


otherwise .... theres some very good suggestions.

Message Edited by GrimBear on 11-25-2004 04:19 PM



GrimBear
Cotasnoova1
Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:33 am
#4

I dont like to PvP or be forced to do it, but there should be zones and random times when you are given a message and it is on!
Calem
Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:59 am
#5

I completely understand what you are saying GrimBear. Maybe a few of my suggestions are a little too harsh in terms of PvP confrontation. However, neglecting an intelligently thoughtout RvR system is doing this game harm as well in regards to keeping people as long term subscribers. As it stands, I feel left out of the game because I can't wear storm trooper armor without being forced into PvP (or exploiting). There needs to be more of a balance.


Maybe RvRcan only take place in the battlegrounds of say 3 planets and full out RvR on only 1 (maybe a new planet available through an expansion). So whoever is controlling 2 out of the 3 is actually winning the war. This way, people can wander freely and adventure there, but there is always a risk of being detected by the opposing factions NPCs and set to attackable (like the stormtroopers do now). If you are mining resources on an enemy planet, you only run a small risk of having your harvesters or maybe shops flagged as being owned by the enemy if you are caught. At this point, say you have the option of continuing your operations with a small fee being charged for every item sold, or a higher maintenance rate on your installations (not so much so that it would hurt terribly but it wouldn't be comfortable). But I do believe that the best resources can only be had on the planets that are contested (giving reason to wage the war). Once set as attackable on a planet because you were caught, you can hire a smuggler to try and fix your issues with the local authorities. If you are caught on an enemy controlled planet and decide to go on a killing spree outside of the battlegrounds, you pop up on the BH terminals automatically for that planet only. The only way to get off the boards is to stay away from the planet for a bit (or get the smuggler to help you out again).


Anyway, I just wish what was implemented for RvR was better thought out and desirable. Maybe these ideas could be implemented on a special server... who knows.



Cailette Buch(anan)
· Master Combat Medic
· Imperial Colonel/Imperial Inquisition Squadron
· Singing Mountain Clan wannabe
· Smuggler at heart




Setinel
Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:55 am
#6






Cotasnoova1 wrote:

I dont like to PvP or be forced to do it, but there should be zones and random times when you are given a message and it is on!







I don't think it's PvP most people don't like but the following interaction between players:



You have been sleign by 'player a' requesting cloning activity


Everything is fine here


"Haha I owned this stupid rebel, what a noob" says 'player a'


'player a' spits on your corpse


'player a' jumps up and down on your corpse


'player a' does thousands of other de-moralizing things to your corpse while only making a fool of himself



I don't have a problem with pvp, just the jerks who don't let it go. Honestly, I don't have a problem with the above happening to me, but I know that it doesn't help to bring people into pvp. Being a carbineer, and not one of the strongest classes in the game, I know that I'll most likely get destroyed by most melee proffessions, definetly by a high-rank jedi, most likely by high level tank pets, and other types of players in the game, but I still enjoy it. There isn't a way to get rid of the way people act in the game, doing so would take about a few dozen pyschiatrists added to the swg payroll, but I do feel this is a major reason that many players are strickly pve.




Abundai Akuma
|Belial Saints|
[Leader of The Belial Saints]
{Master Carbineer}{Master Bounty Hunter}{Rebel General}
Vet Since June '03

travisiscool
Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:07 pm
#7

Phenomenal post


Esquire Gargon



Please visit my assorted Vendors outside of Theed at -5731 2811.
Prems, Pups, Swoops, Attachments, And All sorts of Good Stuff!
JookSingJai
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:58 am
#8






Calem wrote:

SWG is a game that I really do love and hate. When this game excels, it does so with flying colours. Unfortunately, those highs are often squashed by the lows which makes me feel like it's time to take a break and revisit the game down the road so it feels fresh again (and hopefully by then some key features will be fixed).


This probably isn't the proper place to offer a few parting suggestions, but where else would it go as I have some ideas that span multiple game systems? Anyway...


Ultimately, this game (for me at least) has lost meaning and purpose. The reason for this is that what I expected as an endgame isn't there. For some it's becoming a Jedi, others it's just being rich, and for most it's good friends - for me it includes those elements but it really boils down to the GCW. The sub-title for the game is An Empire Divided, but where is the division? Here are a few suggestions that I feel would have made the game better in terms of PvP while tying into PvE (note- I think of PvP as factional based warfare, like DAoC's RvR):


Planets


  • Make planets factionally aligned (Rebel, Imperial or Neutral (neutral including sub-factions like Hutt, CorSec, etc.)

  • Make it where players can control the alignment of planets by capturing the planet

  • Planetary invasion begins by securing the space zone around the planet (this is where JtL fits in with a purpose) allowing for ground forces to be shuttled in

  • Have combat between the factions take place in the battlegrounds (say have 3 battlegrounds per planet) and the factionally aligned bases that appear on the surface

  • Once all 3 battle grounds have been captured, the invading faction can then try and capture the capitol city... once captured the planet then becomes aligned to the victors

  • The resources on that planet then can be mined by the controlling faction at normal cost, neutrals will be a little higher in terms of cost, but the opposing faction would have to place mining installations out of the way as their mining operations would be open to looting, or possibly risk being shut down if discovered by the controlling NPCs

  • Smugglers increase the ability of moving players and illegally mined cargo to and from a factionally controlled planet

  • Only certain resources spawn on planets that can be controlled by factions... these resources are what make the difference between say an average gun and a really good gun

  • Have certain planets always set as non-attackable to work as a safe haven for players (Naboo as Imperial, Tatooine and Corellia as neutral (with sub factions),and Rori possibly as Rebel) with certain planets as full PvP and uncontrolable (in this timeline I would venture to say Yavin as that is the area where the most recent conflict and salvage operations exist)

  • Safe planets can have players attack other players, but once a player has been killed, they can then report the attack to the local authorities which will in turn spawn the police force to hunt down the attacker or allow a player to set up a bounty on the attackers head

  • A rebel can attempt to visit an imperial planet, but they are open to attack by factional NPCs and players

  • Planets can also be swayed to a factional alignment based on a politicians involment in the planetary government possibly? Somehow making the planet more receptive to an opposing factions presence allowing for a bypass of having to take the capital by force once the battlegrounds have been conquered?



one of the best ideas i've ever read here.

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