Doctor Archive
Thread: Doc Experimentation
I'm not entirely sure what information you're looking for here. I'll take a stab at it, though...
The theory behind experimentation is the more points put into each experiment, the greater the potential result. Of course, this also means a greater risk of failure.
I have heard all this before, and everyone always claims more than 1 point is better. My personal experiance has been that 1 point per experiment yields the best results. It seems to be an inverselylinear relationship between points at a time to outcome.
Example (just a sample, not real data):
I put 1 point at a time for all 10 points into power on an ABEC to yield a 20/15 - not horrible
2 points at a time makes a 19/15
3 points at a time makes a 18/15
etc...
This is assuming that each and every expiriment is "Great Success".
This is not real data, just my way of expressing that I have never found that more than one point at a time has even remotely worked for me. I have never been able to make any sence of how people are getting better results. I just ignore it. And btw, my buff packs are as good as they can be (925 power with very good resources - far from the best possible resources, though)
I understand what you are saying, Zar, but my findings are much more simple:
If I am making something that will yeild a power of 900 with all 'great success' expiremented 1 point at a time, then I will get something like a power of 890 if I expiriment 2 points at a time WITH ALL 'GREAT SUCCESSES' TOO. If I expiriment 3 at a time (all great success - apples to apples), I'll get a power 860, or something.
That is what I am trying to say. These numbers are purly for clarity of explaination - results vary, greatly.
I always, always, always expiriment 1 point at a time. It never, never, never is a good thing to do more than 1. thats all I am saying about that.
Zarlor wrote:
Hmmm.. that just doesn't jive with the experiments we used to do to check into that exact scenario (although it's has been a while since I've done that, and something could have changed.) Are you getting those results on something that only has one effect? I mean you can;t trust the success message on the power result on an Enhance pack, for example, because of the averaging effect of experimenting on a bar that affects 2 stats (power and duration in this case.) You have to eliminate that variable by trying a single effect bar, such as Effecctiveness on a standard Stim.
This is hardly conclusive 
but I've noticed the same thing a couple of times. I'd be making sub-components and I could do one using 1 EP at a time with all great successes and get a higher power than the same item done with 3-4 EP at a time also with great successes.
heh ok here is my spin from what i learned as a master ws...
Say your making item X. This item has one stat that is effected by experimentation (a powerup for example). You spend 1 point at a time or 10 points if you fill up the bar its stats will be the same.
But say your not making a powerup...say your making a optional stock (yes i know its a weapon not a med but i know how they work better) Wen you experiment on a stock for the damage (you can experiment damage duribility and hams) each point you spend in damage effects the Max damage the Min damage and the Speed that the stock does.
Wen you experiment it tells you great success or what ever result you get. That is great wen it is one stat that is changing...But wen you have an item like a stock wich has 3 stats that are effected what type of success is ses is almost pointless unless its "crit fail". Wen making a stock with all great successes you could get 32/32 .8 speed...same resorces and successes again could give you 40/32 damage. And next time 32/40 damage. All same resorces and same great successes...If you try enough eventualy you will get a 40/40 stock...worthy of the scematic.
What i believe is happening is wen you experiment it roles all the stats effected for a good/great/avrage etc success. the first one it roles is the message you get for its success...great success or what have you. But it also roles 2 more times for the stock example i used. You dont see the "success" of those roles unless you watch the stats for the changes on the item your making. So in reality you could have gotten a great success on min damage and an avrage success on max damage and even failed on speed!!! But all you would see is "Great Success". I have tested this extensivly and im 99% sure this is how it works. I have made hundreds of power handlers and stocks etc trying to figure out just why 2 like crafted parts were not exactly the same stat wise...this is the only thing i have come up with that makes sence. Basicly ignore the "success message" Watch your stats. Wen you see all effected stats rise the right way you know you have that item as best it can be. It will take you a few parts to see just how much each stat can rise per experimentation point spent.
Btw i now spend all my points at once. If i dont get the highs in all the stats i want i make another one. Spending less than max at a time just gives me more room for the second or third role to miss. On avrage i will make 5-15 parts per scematic i make. I just hand craft the extra componets into sompthing usefull.
Hope this helps.
I've tried buff packs with the same resources, only great successes, with 1 at a time and 2... I got maybe 2 more points in the end with 1, so I don't bother.
However, if you try for amazing successes to make a really good stim for example experimenting on 4 or more is the best way, because the amazing successes really make a difference (usually one more charge per stim that way).
PostingAsIntended wrote:
I am guilty of basing this mostly on observations with buff packs. There is nothing else I craft that I have great concern on the outcome. I'd be willing to chalk up the differences in observation to their being multiple values being modified. But remember, we are still talking about the overall outcome.. not just a point by point comparison
On another, slightly related note; I have noticed also that the % of resource stat mods depicted for the Chem Release Duration Thingies are not correct. it is Herbavor meat and something else (tat fibre?). The something else I have is so-so, but I have a ton of it. When using 2 different herbavor meats on 2 different components, I get very similar results. However, the stats on the two different meats I use are radically different:
a) 327 PE,940 OQ
b) 670 PE, 500 OQ
The power rating is SUPPOSED to be 33% PE and 66% OQ. If you weigh the stats you get a 'quality rating' of:
a) (327 * 0.33) + (940 * 0.66) = 728
b) (670 * 0.33) + (500 * 0.66) = 551
The meat with the good OQ (a) should be much better than the one with the better PE. This is not the case. By actual trial I can absolutely without a doubt tell you that the 'a' combination makes 64 power chems (all great successes) and the 'b' combination makes 67 power chems (of course, all great successes).
Both cases use the same exact other ingredient. My point? Crafting is all bugged up. Not much seems to be working as expected.
Well I had reported this very problem as I thought I was bugged too but you cant use the 66 33 rule on just the meat alone you have to add the applicable stats of both ingredients(meat and C4) / 2 then x .66 or .33 to determine what combination will work best.
The two ingredient components are easy to figure out like this but when it comes to buff packs I'm lost