Doctor Archive
Thread: Please Join Us if You Disagree with the New Experimentation System
I cannot believe that TH actually made that post saying that the change to experimentation is what we asked for. What a complete misread that was. The entire crafting community screamed against this proposal the first time as we will again. It sickens me to see how very little they listen. 12 pages strong and growing, I hope that post gets their attention.
Vinaddar
Vinaddar wrote:
I cannot believe that TH actually made that post saying that the change to experimentation is what we asked for. What a complete misread that was. The entire crafting community screamed against this proposal the first time as we will again. It sickens me to see how very little they listen. 12 pages strong and growing, I hope that post gets their attention.
Vinaddar
I am gonna add my dissapointed vote to this thread also. I was not a crafter or a doc when the outcry began about the RANDOMNESS of BUFFS. Not the experimentation crap. But as I am now a Doc ((very near master (20k healing to go)), I find the change to experimentation to be just insane.
This new experimentation system that is floating around on TC needs to be axed, especially if the quality of the resouces keeps being crappy as they have been for WEEKS on the live servers. I haven't seen decent quality Class 4 Liquid Petro in weeks and avian meat? how about spawning some decent stuff on animals that we can actually get missions for or at least spawn them in the wild. That rori meat was fantastic but if you are a decent level in your character you cannot hunt the damn things. If we got decent to great resources all the time then I see no problem with the new system. But as they are now, this new system is nothing but a griefing tool that the game will use to piss the player base off.
Message Edited by WookieIsshe on 03-05-2004 05:56 AM
It is technically something we asked for. It ws supposed to be thisway.. but it was broken.. it being broken was causing some of our crafting bugs..
Much like the enchance med use thing. Sometimes the fix forBug A results in something you don't like. Sometimes a the fix for Bug B puts someting in you do like.
Feel free to protest it, but several of te "weird" things that happen in experimentation won't get fixed otherwise.
-T
Message Edited by atimes on 03-05-2004 09:38 AM
atimes wrote:
I call horse hockey on that one Zarlor.
We wanted crits addressed and failures during experimentation addressed.
I'm an engineer and whenever I hear them say "we can't do this" I stop reading because point blank they are saying "we can we just don't want to". Take our issues with buffs. Trust me they CAN reduce the variation they just don't want to for whatever reason. I'm not on the inside but take it from a guy who's been programming computers since he was 10 years old. . . it CAN be done because it's ALL code. The code was written to put the variation in, the code can be written to reduce variation. It may be difficult, it may require a serious revamp of existing code but it CAN be done. It seems to me that making buffs static was the quick and easy way.
There is no reason they can't do their stated goals AND satisfy the customer base. We have ZERO problems with them fixing the problems that they stated they are fixing. . namely making resource quality matter more. What we have a problem with is them turning crafting into a one line show. I haven't been a doc long and I don't know all the in's and out's of crafting but I do know that if you are the guy on the other end writing the code it IS possible to make resource quality matter more, reduce critical failures, reduce failures on experimentation AND make it so that you can keep the crafting flexibility you have now. Like I said it may be hard and it my require a serious revamp of existing code BUT IT CAN BE DONE!
Take it from a guy who's been doing it for 20 years.
Message Edited by atimes on 03-05-2004 09:38 AM
I don't think anyone's arguing with you on that. In fact on the buff variance issue they never said they COULDN'T do it... just that the amount of effort it would take to change that variance on just buffs was more than they were willing to spend. Every single healing process uses the samesubroutine to determine that variance range. They don't want to change it to be more dynamic fordifferent types of healsbecause of the effort it would take. They flat out told us that they would only take the simple path to simply remove the variance altogether.
But while we may not like it.... they may be INTENDING to reduce the quality of crafted items. Think about the the absolute top of line equipment and products. I've made 65% base composite armor and had it sliced to 85% in all stats with 20% stun for several full suits of > 85%slicedas a GOOFING around Armorsmith. I make buff packs that are good enough for an average of 2300 to each stat. Chefs make food that gives +400 to all mind stats for 45 minutes and can be stacked.
You start combining the very best items in the different crafting fields and you have a damn near invincible character. I can solo damn near anything with my commando when he's buffed and wearing 85% composite. And if I take my Doc/CM running on my laptop with him... anything I couldn't beat before I cake walk through.
So I think there's a strong possiblity that much like the change to the FWG5 and Scatter way back... the devs are intending for EVERYTHING to have it's high end lowered. And from what I understand.. you'll still be able to make the ultra high end stuff.. it'll just be REALLY REALLY hard because it'll require absolutely FANTASTIC resources....and for somethings it'll probably even just be impossible.
Runesabre recently made a post aboutt he Corellian Corvette responding to someone's question about would it be hard enough to REQUIRE a group and not have someone solo it. His response was to the effect that as part of the combat balance they are trying to make it more difficult on solo'ers for the high end content. I think this crafting nerf is part of it.
And personally.. I welcome it. High End Players > High End Content. In trying to balance that they can do two things... raise the difficulty of the content... and lower the ability of the players.... it appears to me that they are doing both.
But while we may not like it.... they may be INTENDING to reduce the quality of crafted items. Think about the the absolute top of line equipment and products. I've made 65% base composite armor and had it sliced to 85% in all stats with 20% stun for several full suits of > 85%slicedas a GOOFING around Armorsmith. I make buff packs that are good enough for an average of 2300 to each stat. Chefs make food that gives +400 to all mind stats for 45 minutes and can be stacked.
Message Edited by atimes on 03-05-2004 11:08 AM
I certainly won't argue with you there... communication has always been the weakest point of SOE when it comes to this sort of stuff IMHO. I think it's gotten better at least three fold since launch... but it still has a ways to go.
But at the same time.... TH has made posts talking about making schematics of stuff prior to Publish 7 in speculation of a nerf, he made another post about cycling out legacy items... and Runesabre did make his post about changing the ability of people to solo everything in the world. So while they haven't come right out and said, "We're nerfing you because the stuff you make now is so good we can't make content to compete... trust us it's for your own good... you'll enjoy the game more and hopefully will whine less about being bored.", there's certainly enough other posts by them to draw that conclusion... that's sort of communicating proper. 
And really.. they may be holding off saying something like that just because of the MASSIVE backlash it would cause.... who knows.
Hell.. I could be talking out my ass... and it could just be their incompetant. However.. I've been programming for 18 years myself... and to build a system of this magnitude for real time interaction over the net with all of the calculations and variables that exist to mimic a form of reality.... I'm thinking a certain degree of competance is necessary just to get us to this point. 
MatchstickNaritus wrote:
But while we may not like it.... they may be INTENDING to reduce the quality of crafted items. Think about the the absolute top of line equipment and products. I've made 65% base composite armor and had it sliced to 85% in all stats with 20% stun for several full suits of > 85%slicedas a GOOFING around Armorsmith. I make buff packs that are good enough for an average of 2300 to each stat. Chefs make food that gives +400 to all mind stats for 45 minutes and can be stacked.
You start combining the very best items in the different crafting fields and you have a damn near invincible character. I can solo damn near anything with my commando when he's buffed and wearing 85% composite. And if I take my Doc/CM running on my laptop with him... anything I couldn't beat before I cake walk through.
So I think there's a strong possiblity that much like the change to the FWG5 and Scatter way back... the devs are intending for EVERYTHING to have it's high end lowered. And from what I understand.. you'll still be able to make the ultra high end stuff.. it'll just be REALLY REALLY hard because it'll require absolutely FANTASTIC resources....and for somethings it'll probably even just be impossible.
Runesabre recently made a post aboutt he Corellian Corvette responding to someone's question about would it be hard enough to REQUIRE a group and not have someone solo it. His response was to the effect that as part of the combat balance they are trying to make it more difficult on solo'ers for the high end content. I think this crafting nerf is part of it.
And personally.. I welcome it. High End Players > High End Content. In trying to balance that they can do two things... raise the difficulty of the content... and lower the ability of the players.... it appears to me that they are doing both.
There will be many likely consequences of this rather simplistic "act of balance". Some will be intended and some not considered and definately not intended. I'd suggest if you have not already, sit down and read the thread on the weaponsmith forum.
The possible consequences of this new crafting system go much further than simply making the powerful items in the game much rarer. Just one example, it may turn a promising and diverse crafting system into aone-way street fora majority of people.
As with removing random buffs, I think the devs have taken the simple path to achieve a goal and have not properly thought out the side-effects.