Doctor Archive

Thread: Dev Clarification on why buffs are the way they are on LIVE.

MyT_Chicken
Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:37 am
#66






Shilak wrote:

For those that spend time buffing themselves then corpsing and reviving if they dont get real good buff this is technically a nerf. With that said though, I actually think this is an excellent change for the balance of the game. The extreme buffs that are currently possible have a very negative impact on the whole balance of the combat system, very good secondary buffs complete eliminate the health and action costs of the specials, which in turn means people can concentrate their food selection on buffing the mind stats to negate the mind cost of specials.


After this change goes in we will hopefully see chefs stocking more than just Blue Milk, Thakitillo, Vasarian Brandy and Ahrisa, as there should be a market for Health and Action based foods/drinks as well. This will have a knock on effect of making specials actually cost some HAM to use which will in turn should hopefully make people think a little more about which specials they use, rather than just spamming them indefinately. My only concern is that the secondary stat buffs may still be high enough to reduce the health and action special costs to zero or close enough not to matter, this concern could (and I expect will) be countered when they introduce the new HAM cost system.


There does seem to be a general trend in Publish 7 which seems to be to reduce the potency of players in general, therefore making PvE a little tougher. A step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.





Very well put, and I totally support your feeling. Although I can't for the life of me understand why it would be a nerf to the people working on getting extreme buffs. Other than that though, your point is very well made....




h Egri p
§ If you don't know; you'll find out soon enough! §

Songe
Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:00 pm
#67

I guess that it will be a nerf in the sense that they can't have all 2500-3k buffs everywhere (I mean it's doable if you just retry a few times). However, I think it's a good thing for the docs lol.


For the bivoli, I don't know about you but I won't use a 3k-worth charge everytime I buff someone.





------

Novice Lekku Stomper
Lexy
Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:34 pm
#68

No, we're upset because we won't have 3k-4k buff on 4 to 6 stats anymore
It's back to being an average, run of the mill doctor.
ErantiaPrym
Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:35 pm
#69

Thanks for the explanation -- it all makes complete sense andI am even happier than I was before (took a bit before I warmed up to fixed vs slightly random).


Now I have a reason to make the best buffs possible!

Entropism
Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:59 am
#70

Personally, I loved the idea of the static buff when I first heard it. Now, I'm not so sure. For those who make their living buffing people one day a week, and killing things the other days, there is an inherant problem. That is, the fact that the devs expect people to be logical. Let me explain:



Take 3 doctors buffing in Coronet's starport, charging the usual 10K per buff. the first doctor is a dabbler, a 0440. The second two are masters. People immediately ask what your buff's power is, and when the dabbler replies with a number 200-300 less than the masters, he is immediately tossed aside. Now, you have the two masters left. Immediately one has lost a viable way to make good money in a game where the economy is completely out of whack. Let's assume that neither of these masters BUY their buffs, they make them.One can't afford the +20 med experimentation point skilltapes (which matter even more now) which can go for well over a million per point on any given server. The other has a very profitable harvesting business, and buys those tapes without blinking. Now, he's buffing for 300 more points on each stat than the "casual" master. What line do you think the customers are going to go to for buffs? Even if the "casual" master has NO waiting time and the other doc has 20 people on line?


We all know 300 points don't make a huge difference. But logic isn't used as often as we'd like to think. Power gamers wanting that extra edge in PvP? Or even PvE? They go for the second doctor. Players that see a higher number and get stars in their eyes? Second doc. There's only 2 people who go to the first doctor: The people who have no time to waste, and the people using logic.That's what, 5% of the population? Now the second doctor is going out of business.


If you ask me, which nobody has, I think an ideal would be a smaller modifier for the buff ranges. Instead of say, 1x-4x, maybe 2.5-3.5x Or even 2-3x if the devs want our HAM in check. An 1600-2400 buff seems to me better than a 2000 buff across the board. not calling this a nerf, because this has potential to be a VERY good thing. It also has the potential to be a disaster to those hoping to make money as a doctor and have fun killing things the rest of the time.



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::::::The Mighty Squid::::::
isycz1
Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:45 am
#71







OldJediKnight wrote:


Especially after I got a 1000 constitution buff on my Jedi tonight, which made him unplayable for 3 freakin hours (my comp has 1000 enc to Str and Con, leaving me with a 400 con, which is unplayable for a jedi)






If you log out for a little while your buffs will drop, or is this no longer the case?



Isycz
Master Doctor/Master Chef

Buffs, Bivoli and Brandy. Talus -2972, 1800. 800m from Imperial Outpost.

ShadowLightning
Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:09 am
#72

I'm just going to be blunt:


This is NOT a nerf. The lower end of the buff hasincreased.


There is NOTHING wrong with 2k buffs - I have never had anyone complain. I still wonder why anyone would pay or work so hard for a 3k buff when it the max it will last is 2.5 - 3 Hours!


I found it POINTLESS to instate both the randomness AND the rebuff ablitily at the same time. One cancles the need for the other.





Danirent
Master Doc/Master CM

Emma
Master SL/Master Doc
Aynsun
Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:11 am
#73

930 enhance pack, MD, 110 droid +25 BE clothing, +25 Bivoli


= 930*2*1.6 = 2976 to all stats.. is that nerf???


(Umm I really hope that I didnt count right...)



Account cancelled and business closed, Bye bye all
ZeligtheLiar
Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:27 am
#74






Aynsun wrote:

930 enhance pack, MD, 110 droid +25 BE clothing, +25 Bivoli


= 930*2*1.6 = 2976 to all stats.. is that nerf???


(Umm I really hope that I didnt count right...)






By my figuring this'll give you 2557 point buffs.

Aynsun
Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:35 am
#75






ZeligtheLiar wrote:


By my figuring this'll give you 2557 point buffs.





Not bad either



Account cancelled and business closed, Bye bye all
Jubilee64
Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:14 am
#76

The master doc buffer who is a 'casual' master doc is buffing 2100s to the other guys 2400s and hes charging the same price deserves to go out of business. Its a free market. He simply reduces the price to 8-9k and immediately has a decent sized queue of customers to whom the extra 300 doesn't matter a toss as they are grinding xp by killing Naffs and would rather save 2000 credits than have an extra 300 to their HA which frankly doesn't matter ajot for the majority of pve.


The reason the economy for buffing is nuts is because one customer is getting a much higher/weaker set than the next and the true skill of the doc is masked by randomness. This patch will be great so long as it doesn't affect what we craft. The market will react and we will all find a relevant pricepoint for our skills - even the dabbler will have a business charging 4,5k or whatever. The only advantage that the randomness gives is letting poorly skilled docs overcharge.


A premium market of 900+ packs, Bivoli/BE/Droid enhanced buffs will no doubt be formed for elite players who require the very best and who no doubt have the 15k we should all expect to charge for this stuff to folk we don't know. Everyone else will no doubt be very happy to be getting ALL 2k+ buffs for whatever the going rate is on your server.


Bring on publish 7.
Entropism
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:38 pm
#77

Here's the thing that I left out of my post last night... On Kettemoor, the "elite" packs are 910 powered, the high end are 810. I buy crates of the 810 powered for 540K for a set of 5 in a crate, and after bivoli and brandy, it costs me just about 7K to buff someone for 10K. Lowering my price to 8-9K isn't worth it at all.


Those 910 packs? Check out Kettemoor's trade forum. They're only sold by auction, for upwards of 2 million per crate. The resources aren't here yet to do the 940 packs everyone else thinks are "pretty good".


Also, it has been noted that experimentation success would also be going downhill. Will this lower our packs from 810 and 910 to 710 and 810? Who knows? Look, I LOVE the fact that I know what I'll be hitting for every time and can advertise that fact. I'm just saying it's not the absolute godsend everyone thinks it is when it comes down to the economy.





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Jubilee64
Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:50 am
#78

/Agree with your sentiments, there will be a lot of adjusting.


I've always crafted/harvested my own stuff, and if you do it that way it may take ages to get the right stuff in place, but when you do, buffs become a license to print money. Its a hassle doing harvester runs granted, but the costs are minimal compared with buying D packs.


And on the cost of D packs, they are no doubt priced a few k below the retaill value on purpose by the seller as a way of shifting them. If Bivoli becomes a required component of Buffs then either the price of Buffs go up, or the price you buy the packs at will go down. Most likely Bivoli Enhanced buffs will have a higher street value than ones without.


This is all conjecture of course. Only thing I'm sure of is that I'd personally prefer the fixed buffs for myself so hopefully most people will feel the same way.


/peace


Jubilee Jones

Master Doc, Farstar
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