Doctor Archive
Thread: Dev Response to Recent Enahancement Med Use Issues (12/02/2003)
Redfyree wrote:
1. IF D's were always supposed to be 90+ med use, why was it NEVER mentioned?
Frankly, because I think they didn't know it was wrong to begin with. The looked at the code when they finally got a chance to look at this particular problem, saw that the formula was wrong. Then they fixed it. Now how all of the end results got by QA is a different story. I do know how it got by on TC, simply because there aren't a lot of Docs there. Even I have very few resources and haven't made any crates of anything there yet. The lower population likely also means less need for making crated versions of Enhances and with little or no market for crated enhances for those with a less than Doc template... well, it's easy to see why it got past Test Center testing.
If you've ever done any coding it's REALLY easy to see how this got missed. It may be blatantly obvioous the problem you've made with a forumula in code, it's not always so easy to see all the implication that changing that one tiny piece of code will have, however.
2. IF by fixing ease of use code which is entwined with final med usage, jumped up final med use, why did it not up med use of ALL buff packs.
I don't know for certain if it did or it did not. But the specific formula that was screwed up could have easily just been the one used on D packs. I don't know how granular their code is. But that part doesn't seem to difficult to understand for me.
3. Why can guns made in crates prepatch be pulled out of those crates after the patch and retain their pre patch stats, but not meds?
Because it's a completely different methodology used for the specifics of the stats we are talking about. If they opened up the code to you you wold likely be able to see for yourself why there is a disparity, but since they can't do that we are stuck with relying on the Devs to tell us this kind of stuff.
4. Why were weaponsmiths told of a post patch "nerf" to their product, so they could mass produce thousands of un-nerfed weapons, yet Medics don't get the same consideration?
Because, as I stated earlier,they changed a formula and did not know that this chage was also made on what happened as a result of that formula. It took them two friggin weeks to even notice taht hey change they made to the formula was even what caused this particular problem in the first place. I wouldn't call that an excuse, by any means. All I do know is they did try to work with the Corres on the issue as best they could (from what I could see) and then seeing where the problem lie they really were pretty darned dejected that there was simply nothing they could do, despite all of the solutions we tried to offer. It's just not the same as that gun code or they would be trying to impliment something like that for us, of that I am certain.
If you wish to believe some conspiracy exists on this, well that is your perogative.I don't see what benefit the Devs would get by being conspiratorial, though. I'm pretty convinced these folks are only human and they, quite frankly, just made a mistake without realizing what the repercussions would be.
Do you really think they have a vendetta against you? That would be smart. Let's alienate a paying customer because we feel like it. Yeah,I can see that happening.
I simply don't believe any of this was intentional. Maybe I'm just niave, but I really can't see it.
Massanas wrote:
Thanks for your response Zarlor. I'm not taking it out on you I just think its sloppy planning and coding. If you look at any game over the last 15 years its all the same though. Some of them come out and tell you they had problems and then fix it some screw it up more then nerf it. Thats the way it will always be while we have sloppy code.
They should consider the customer more though and warn us like a previous poster said, warn ALL of us.
Actually all of this should have been done on the Test center. There shouldn't have been any new code that changed the doctors until it was fixed on the test center but then again we get back to my other statement. Theyare SLOPPY.
Yeah, and you've never been sloopy? 
I sure know I have. We're not all perfect, that's for sure. They f-ed up, there's no question about it, and they admit it, from what I can see.
As I mentioned in my other post, though, don't blame TC. TC is filled with players like you and me. It's too easy to miss something like this when you are just a player who doesn't have a template that needs to worry about that Med Use rating. Heck, I've never even made more than a few crates of enhances on live (and even then the crate size was no more than 10). I'd never even look at Med Use. Never needed to. I've never made a crate on TC. I'm sure other Docs there are likely in the same boat. It's probably one of the reasons the Devs are looking at ways to get more people onto TC.
So yeah, it's a messed up situation. I'm not happy about it, either, even though it doesn't directly affect me. The fact that it affects you guys, though, has made it an important issue. All we can do is point out that they messed up and get them to recognize where they messed up so they can try to do better next time. I think we've gotten that acknowledgement and even better we've started getting responses. That's a lot more than we had early on. Like the postman might say, "Stuff is getting better". But there are going to be some tumbles along the way. At least this Dev team actually listens.
And for the record, I'm not taking any of this stuff personally. Just trying to clarify the situation as I see it is all. 
Message Edited by Zarlor on 12-04-2003 09:56 AM
Right now a four level in med knowledge gets you to ninety. That should be enuf for d's and then master gets e's. At least put the d level back to 90 for a while and let those of us who have 4 levels use up what we have. There is no problem in doing this for developers unless they insist on keeping the 93 levels. They should give up on that for a while, until we have used our previously made crates. Other solution is to allow spec increases on clothing for med use.
Benecia wrote:
Thats not true that they cant fix this nerf.
Its not a nerf, they didnt do anything except fix enhance packs to make them work the way they were always supposed to work
perhaps try and find a Doc to trade you crates of Enhance C's or Experimented D's for the crates you already have.
Benecia wrote:
Thats not true that they cant fix this nerf. they could lower back the med use for one week and let us take the packs out of the crates to use.
Read what I said above. We asked about this possibility. They said that idea actually would NOT work to fix the problem. Unless you've seen the code, how can you say for certain that this would work?
cont. With all due respect, I have not seen the codes, but it seems hard to believe that when they raised the use level to 93 and it effected the d packs in crates, that if they lowered it to 90, 85, or even 75 for a short period of time, it would NOT effect those in crates. On the way up it effects them, but a change to lower doesnt???? I stand by my statement that keeping the levels at 93 is more important than fixing an unannounced, retroactive screwing. This is a game leaving issue for those of us who planned our character, spent our resources, and relied on dev good will. Like others I havent really played at all since this nerf
ok
they did not just "change the med use" up to 93
The original problem was that the med use calcualtion on enhance packs was totally buggered, and would actually INCREASE the med use when experimenting. This buggered calculation also resulted in the original med use being lower than it should have been.
In the last patch, the devs re-wrote the calculation to be the way its supposed to be, using the appropriate variables and what not.
Now everytime you pull an item out of the crate, the enhance pack is having the new CORRECT calculation applied to it. Having the devs lower the med use on D's back down to 75ish will NOT HELP. The only way to fix your crates would be to put back in the buggered calculation method, which isnt going to happen.
Benecia wrote:
Zarlor, I appreciate what you are trying todo for us but that answer doesnt make sense. If they can adjust the med use levels up or down, they certainly can lower them for a short period of time to let us use ours or take out of crates. The only reason they will not, is becasue keeping use at 93 seems more important. I wish you would question their answer that it just delays the invevitable. We are not complaining about where they eventually set the level (that is another question), just asking for some time to use what we have. So they cant raise to 93 right away, why is that a big deal? If this was unintentional, and they care at all, they can fix this easy. It has nothing to do with seeking out every crate, just lowering use for a period of time to let us use our stuff.
Benecia,
We have been told that changing med use does not affect the items in the crate. So, your solution will not work. If they change med use (up or down) it will only affect new items, not old items, not items in crates. We have seen this several times before. (If I am wrong on this, someone please correct me.)
This situation is very, very unique. Changing this formula did affect crates. It is apparently one of the few things that will.
Thanks,