Doctor Archive
Thread: Dev Response to November Top 5 (12/18/03)
I response to:
However, after some dicsussion with Traigus, I think that we should probably consolidate the Doct Harvesting issue back into this one and reword it. After all the core issue here is not so much Doctor Surveying, although that could be a possible solution, I think that the core issue is really just that we need some way to either be brought in line with the "true crafters", i.e. the Artisans, who we sare so much in common in relation to complexity of our schematics and rarity and speciicity of our resource requirements, OR brought more in line with the "hybrid crafters", such as Scouts, Rangers, Smugglers and Musicians, so that we have a better position to work from with less complex schematics and resource requirements. So I think our core issue here is not necessarily getting Survey abilities, it's having the method for taking care of our crafting abilities without undue, and unfun, burden on us.
I think that is more of the core issue that we really need to push and discuss with the Devs. I think it would be great to hear any other ideas folks have had for achieveing that, as well. (Although I feel pretty well up on those solutions it never hurts to see if folks have thought of some other ones.)
I disagree with quite a bit of this. The only real specificty we have is for advanced components. And like all other crafters to get extra power you need advanced components or rare resources to achieve that. That is the way it should be.
The core issue is just the reality of game play. Artisans can make more money surveying and mining resource for other classes. Docs have money issues which keep them poor and canot afford to buy their resource in many cases unless they want to be STIM B Vendors.
On top of money issues unlike other classes Docs require heavy organics as opposed to mineral and many inorganics. Again that is how it should be, It would not make sense to make medicines from too many mineral or inorganic components. The reality again is that artisans can make more money by not catering to a niche market. Economics 101 there.
I for one would be leary of the schematics being re-vamped. I have spent too much time struggling and getting the resources to have them rendered worthless.
It needs to be related to the devs the difference in what they "think" and the reality of the game.
The reality of the game is that Artisans are not catering to a niche market which warrants a change to make the affected medical classes able to progress.The intent of all the classes having different abilities is in fact so we help each other out. However people are not selfless and since all other crafters require many of the same type of componets we are a niche market. And if you look at what we make and do we are different than other crafters. Medicines production should be much different component wise than armor, weapons, buildings, extractors, speeders and such. But since in the reality of the game the classes do not work well together i this area the simple thing to do is add survey to balance the situation. Since in the reality of the game Artisans are not performing this role it is not undermining their class. It is real simple, you can look at things in a purist ideal world way or look at the reality of what is happening.
I too am dissapointed that we seem to be just pushed off by the devs with inadequite responses and I too would like to thank Zarlor for an awesome job. We must all remember not to shoot the messenge lol..Our messenger does a great job.
I think as hard as they are to get, they should refinately lowered the amount of these meat needed to about 1/5 if not 1/10th the current amount. 2-3 avian meat should be plenty for enhance D and 1-2 herbv meat. Current requirement of 22 avian meat and 16 herb meat is just too much.
As far as the immunity packs and burn state treatment, those sound really cool. I also like the idea of the uber-wound kit for all physical wounds though I doubt we would see that because it would nullify all the other wound kit schematics. One option would be to have that uber-wound kit craftable and usable only by master doctor. That would give us a nice treat for spending the time and points for master
I agree with Ily on this one. I never had a problem acquiring the resources I could get from harvesters. Yeah I am not rich, but I do make enough money in game to support those harvesters and get the resources I need. Even by just leaving them in one spot I can trade what I am collecting with and artisan who gathers what I need. But ALWAYS I have had a problem finding Avain and Herbivore meats in quantity. Rangers/scouts just don't catter to the medical society. It is far much easier to kill anything and sale to a BE then look for something specific.
The resources from harvesters shouldn't even be an issue. Since I started I never had a problem getting the materials I needed, well except for Dolovite which didn't even spawn on my server the first 2 months, but harvester gathering is easy, whether you have Artisan skill or not, just take a lil imagination and a lil work to accomplish. But the meat takes actuall game play from a scout/ranger to try and gather 20k to do a good factory run. Harvesters are plop and forget, days latter you come back and pick up the goods. Meat someone has to actually work at getting all that meat.
Wow you guys got yous all ready..cool...
Question...Rebalance the Med Use levels of enhances so that secondary Enhance Ds (which come available at Master Doc) start off with a Master level Med Use level.
So this would be only for the Secondarys? Curious as to why we would want this...With my left overs skill ptsim headed 0/2/4/0. So I like it. Right now Im 0/2/2/0.
Zarlor wrote:
As for the Artisan/Scout thing, it's really not that simple. It has more to do with how the Medical professions fall into the differences between "true crafters", as in Artisan professions, and "hybrid crafters", like scouts, rangers, smugglers and Musicians. Docs have the requirements of the Artisan professions when it comes to the things we do, but we are treated like a hybrid crafter in all other respects. It's an imbalance in game design that is keenly felt and definitely noticed by many in this profession. The Holocron grind has driving the price of resources so high now that it is even more of a problem for the Medical professions than it was before. There is a real issue here that is not so easily solved by constantly dropping and picking up another profession.
Probably been suggested already but:
Make Doctor a hybrid profession, requires master medic and surveying 4. Then reduce the skill point requirements of every doctor skill by 1.
1. Medical Surveying. Docs seem to feel the need to survey for their own resources and dislike the need to use skill points in Artisan in order to do so.
We have reservations about implementing such a change. The Surveying skill is considered integral to the Artisan profession and skill point expenditure is a basic challenge in the game and all professions have to make such choices.
We are a crafting class too, Remind them about Organic Chem Line, Schematics, etc. However, unlike other professions (weaponsmith, Armorsmith, DE, etc.) we are the only ones who can use our products.
This sounds like a CATCH 22 situation. 
But you're right...compared to some of the other professions, Doctor's in good shape. When we can get our resources, at least we can work properly.
Zarlor wrote:
What I mean by specificity of resources, though, is to take a look at, say, smuggler spices. Their requirements for even their best stuff is for things like Copper, and that's as specific as it gets. They don't even need to worry about the qualities of their materials at all. Scouts need Hide or Bone or Meat, the most specific thing they need, if I remember correctly, is Polymer for making higher end camps.
That should be a huge point in our favor right there, Z.
They don't even need to worry about the qualities of their materials at all.
Ask the devs if we're a 'hybrid' crafter then why does OQ/PE/etc mean so much to us?
On a personal level I don't mind not having Artidan skills. (my doc and my medic both don't).
However, the Hologrinding is doing a very nasty job on the economy.. and Grinders are buying the rares, not understanding they are rare... or maybe not caring. I chewed out a friend of mine the other day for grinding with very good Avian meat.
Everything on Cilastra is expensive right now.. Hologrinders can afford it, and just buy anything they can.
Before the advent of Holocrons, I could get my materials from miners just fine (assuming the stuff was in the Galaxy at all). Now it isn't really cost effective for me to use high end healing and buffs, even on myself.
Stupid Economy.
-T
Caliwyrm wrote:
Zarlor wrote:
What I mean by specificity of resources, though, is to take a look at, say, smuggler spices. Their requirements for even their best stuff is for things like Copper, and that's as specific as it gets. They don't even need to worry about the qualities of their materials at all. Scouts need Hide or Bone or Meat, the most specific thing they need, if I remember correctly, is Polymer for making higher end camps.
That should be a huge point in our favor right there, Z.
They don't even need to worry about the qualities of their materials at all.
Ask the devs if we're a 'hybrid' crafter then why does OQ/PE/etc mean so much to us?
Because without those stat requirements, every medical item would be the same. Every doctor would make the same stim-bs, the same buffs, the same everything. There would be no high-end variance for those docs that currently go out of their way to obtain the high-end resources.
I prefer the current schematics and resource stat requirements over a homogenized 'spice' type of crafting line.
The issue here is that we are just like a weaponsmith or an armoursmith in that our high end items have specific(and sometimes named) resources that we must obtain. Where we differ is that, for a Weaponsmith and an Armoursmith, Novice artisan is a pre-requsite. They already spent the 15 skill points for Novice artisan because, from there, they move to their respective Elite Crafting professions. Whereas we, the Science Professions, are all based from the Novice Medic.
We have the same issues, as a doc, that an elite crafter(save Architect) has for resources. Yet we are denied the same base survey skill that they themselves enjoy.