Doctor Archive
Thread: TC update march 3rd (power listing on cure poison and disease packs)[updated]
ElPedroSG
Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:09 am
#14
/switches950 OQ/PEVeg Greens from HQ Organic to HQ Named Organics backpack
Morganite
Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:56 pm
#15
I'm a MCM/MD, so I see both sides of this equation. This change is going to be something people will end up complaining about IMO if it works out in a logicial pattern. (the roll is potency of poison against effectiveness of cure pack.)
While I agree it should take a cure c pack to cure a c poison, adding the effectiveness of the cure pack to the equation will only make it more difficult for a doctor to counter a combat medic, not easier. Until the time comes that combat medics have used up their "pre-patch medicines". The issue is as it stands right now, I can easily make potency 140-150 packs, with an effectiveness of 420 (great number there, ehh?) Since decent class 1 just finally spawned on Ahazi, I can make crates and crates of this stuff. See, me seeing effectiveness ratings finally means I just need to put more points into potency now, before this change goes live( if potency is indeed the balancing factor). Other combat medics will figure this out. (/me runs over to those boards now to pass the word.. 
) I forsee in the near future, area-type cures going into effect, soa CM'smain means of dealing with this is to load up on "pre-nerf" (lack of a better term) poison/disease packs. (this assumes the crafting changes will affect a CM's finished product potency's in a similar effect to how they will affect the final effectiveness of these cure packs.)
) I forsee in the near future, area-type cures going into effect, soa CM'smain means of dealing with this is to load up on "pre-nerf" (lack of a better term) poison/disease packs. (this assumes the crafting changes will affect a CM's finished product potency's in a similar effect to how they will affect the final effectiveness of these cure packs.) I am unsure of a better means of working this out, but I am afraid this one is notit. I would prefer the nerf-cry's to abate in the CM forum, this "fix" will only make matters worse. It is hard enough to keep up with a CM's area poisons now as a Doc., add another factor to the equation to make it even more difficult to resist/cure, and I wont even be able to suggest to people to pick up some doctor to counter us...
vortexala
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:06 pm
#16
Morganite wrote:
I am unsure of a better means of working this out, but I am afraid this one is notit.
The only thing this fixes is allowing us to see the rating of a cure pack. Nothing more. There is no power change to the cure packs, no additional or modified rolls of any type. It's simply a graphical change to allow us to finally see the rating on a cure pack, a rating that has been there all along but was simply never shown.
Zarlor
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:32 pm
#17
Just as Texxie says. I would only add that in now being able to see the ratings on teh packs we can better provide actualy numbers for making comparisons on cures with poisons and see exactly where the balance truly lies. (Right now I think the balance lies in favor of the Docs, as I bet the testing now that we can see these numbers, will show.)
Quandry
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:32 pm
#18
Does be clothing or wound/injury healing clothing help cure diseases or poisons?
Zarlor
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:36 pm
#19
I'm not sure, but being able to see the numbers on the pack now will definitely help us to be able to figure that out.
Morganite
Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 pm
#20
If you are correct (I am not doubting you), then someone needs to find out how the whole process of curing a disease/poison works.. If I use a 125 potency poison pack, and it is cured by a 75 effectiveness cure B pack, that is total and complete crapola. I don't mean to shoot the messanger, only saying the message is horrible and whomever made the message should be shot.... 
If my potency is 120, your effectiveness should have to be at least 100 to have a *chance* to cure the poison. Hrmm, unless this is some type of pre-cursor to innoculations. An innoculation that gives you a say 40 poison resist, would not only give you a chance of resisting the poison, but assist the doctor by only needing an effectiveness of 80 on the cure pack to hit 120. Of course, that makes entirely to much sense, so SOE would never impliment anything like that.. 
The balance between doc/cm is horrible. (as I said, my character is both a MCM/MD, so I see both sides of the equation with incredible clarityin large-scale raids). Combat medics should be able to counter doctors "offensive capabilities". (buff's mainly) Doctors should be able to counter combat medics "offensive capabilities", which in theory they do, but in reality they dont come close. We need to find means to bridge the gap on both sides, which would give each side each side of this coin here valid strengths and the according counters. I would probably use health poisons if people didnt have 2600 health pools, and 1000 mind pools. the mind pool is what causes all the problems with poison/disease, because it takes 3-5x as long to heal as the other 2 pools, and is generally the hardest to buff stat. While cosmetic changes such as this are nice (if indeed you are correct and this is a cosmetic change only), addressing the "meat of this problem" needs to be done now, not 2 patches later. I hit 41 people with 1 area poison on a raid. Not a single person resisted it. you would need 10 master doctors to fix that before damage was done, irreguardless of how pretty an effectiveness rating is on our cures.
I hope our 3 wonderful medical coorespondents are trying to make it clear cosmetic changes to our professions are more worthless then a condom with 2 holes... Every day they loose customers to these issues, which btw are not cosmetic issues, but real ones... those of us that have been around for awhile dont listen to promises, "talk is cheap, whiskey costs money" is the saying, and cheap whiskey beats cheap talk anyday..
Quandry
Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:09 am
#21
Well just because your potency is 120 i dont think that means it alwase hits for that amount. I believe there is a variable to how well the poison actualy sticks. That would play a part into how good a cure would need to be to cure it. Not compleatly sure though...as untill we see some data its hard to speculate.
Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:53 am
#22
Well, I have been under the impression that a cure pack pulls off of Effectiveness anyway, not potency. I'm hopeing to get some testing done, but I seem to be getting on at some odd enough times that I keep missing everyone else on TC and I don;t have my CM skills built up enough on there, yet.
Although I would add that while this may be a cosmetic change, it is one that provides a pretty crucial piece of the puzzle for both Docs and CMs. IN order to properly find that balance this will give us the ammo we need by giving specific numbers and seeing how cures and DoTs interact directly. Without it we are making more subjective arguments about how we feel things are. Thatcan be evidenced by several recent threads on this very forum by Docs who were insistent that they cures must be very bad since it was taking multiple applications, when in reality they simply did not realize that their cure packs actually had an effectiveness rating, albeit hidden, to begin with. Based on that subjective evidence it would seem that Doc cures were inferior to the poisons they are supposed to cure, when preliminary objective testing actually shows the opposite to be true. That when using worse quality resources and even a lower level pack it is possible to still cure a higher quality resource/level poison in one shot. (I'd have to do a search for it, but Kavedawg and I did some testing several months back to show that to be the case.)
This change should actually prove to be a big boost to letting us move forward as well as for educating Doctors about what their cures really can do if made properly.
DoctorGriggs
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:38 am
#23
Wow this is good news, but disturbing to me personally
I been working off the assumption that they either worked or did not since they had no ratings and I cranked out 1,000 of each using complete crap materials. lol oh well
I been working off the assumption that they either worked or did not since they had no ratings and I cranked out 1,000 of each using complete crap materials. lol oh well
Traigus
Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:34 am
#24
The real trick w/ testign this is that both sides have a + added.
CM has a + added when they use the poison/disease, and the doc has a + while curing.
Not sure if there is ten a random modifier on one or both of these rolls as well.
may be very hard to track down the exact numbers.
-T
CM has a + added when they use the poison/disease, and the doc has a + while curing.
Not sure if there is ten a random modifier on one or both of these rolls as well.
may be very hard to track down the exact numbers.
-T
Morganite
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:01 pm
#25
Effectiveness has to do with the amount of damage we do, potency has to do with the chances of our poison/disease sticking on the target(s). The cure packs cant work against effectiveness, it has to be potency.At 120 potency about 1/200 possible targets resists my cm stuff, I can live with that... There has to be a random roll involved in the equation, since Nobody currently can get above what, +50 poison resist?
I would be very curious to see dev feedback on this..
Rchuno
Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:07 pm
#26
hrmm I had the exact oposite reaction. I always used my best resources in my cures. I have never had one fail either. I seem to be seeing a trend now. I never realized that everyone else was using crap resources and not experimenting the effectiveness up... I am CM as well so I figured to counter a high effectiveness poison I would want a high effectiveness cure.