Doctor Archive
Thread: The problem with buffs..
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Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:08 am
#1
It's struck me as an injustic lately, the amount of emphasis put on buffs. As a doc there are 6 buffs they can do, that can vary depending on their skill and the components that go into it. Dancers can do 1 buff...and musicians 2.
Ibought buffs one day, and got a 3k buff on stamina alone. Being a rifleman it made me wonder how i could never get anything over a 1.5k buff on my mind...seeing as dancers can only double my mind at the tops....it got me to thinking.
why is this the way things are? not to say i dont love swg and there are many many great things i have neglected to bring up in this post....but as far as ents and doc buffs go, im a bit disappointed.
its lead me to ask the questions of why.
why are there so many things that can go into a doc's buff abilities and virtually nothing into a dancer or musicians!? It's become so, now that docs are overpowered while ents continue to stay all the same, as if there is some sort of universal max an entertainer can achieve and all entertainers will reach that same position one day or another. it trivializes entertainers and gives them a worse name then theyve gotten through afkers and holo-grinders..
why is it that doc buffs only take a matter of minutes and can be so powerful, yet an entertainer buff that takes 8 mins to get its max ability can only at most double stats? all ents get about it now is whining....also despite that it takes more of the players time i've heard that tips are significantly lower than what a doc can get.
i understand that components have to be gathered to make good buffs for a doc...by why cant entertainers also recieve some sort of component to difference from eachother?
does anyone else find a problem with ent/doc buffs!?
Travin64068
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:43 am
#2
Actually you can get higher buffs on your mind. Here's an example just using the mind bar. I have a mind of 1000, and Vasarian Brandy with +421 to mind, plus Muon Gold for another +500. I can take two hits of the brandy giving me a mind of 2342. When the Dancer buffs my mind it will double that giving me a +2342for 2 hours. This is pretty close to average doctor buffs in terms of power.
Doctors were also given the ability to buff as a core skill (/healEnhance). The Dancer and Musician buffs were added later to help out with mind incaps, and to give them something to charge for. Doctors spend months gathering resources to make good buff packs, and Dancers and Musicians don't need anything to apply their buffs. Don't get me wrong I love Entertainment buffs, and I will gladly pay for them, when I can find a non AFK entertainer.
- Travin
Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:30 pm
#3
yes but my point was that you cant do it by entertainer ALONE, you have to have outside help from chef...yet docs can buff 6 stats with little trouble as long as they have made components. and i was wondering why only docs get to have components or parts that go towards a buff that makes each doc different from the next, yet ent gets clumped together when they can only do the same things...i personally find it as an injustice..
TheGrifted1
Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:38 pm
#4
Yakblat wrote:
yes but my point was that you cant do it by entertainer ALONE, you have to have outside help from chef...yet docs can buff 6 stats with little trouble as long as they have made components. and i was wondering why only docs get to have components or parts that go towards a buff that makes each doc different from the next, yet ent gets clumped together when they can only do the same things...i personally find it as an injustice..
Little trouble? Have you been a doctor? If not, you have NO clue.
Lexy
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:15 pm
#5
Dancers and musicians only double your BASE stats, not what you currently have with food/drink/spice.
My mind stats are like this:
1100/800/1100
With Musician buffs (with +25 musical mind enhance tapes), dancer buffs, Vasarian Brandy, Vagnerian Canape, Muon gold and Powerboost, I can get my stats up to:
4100/4500/5125
Granted, I'm human, but even so, other species can get well up into the same range as doc buffs for their mind as well.
My mind stats are like this:
1100/800/1100
With Musician buffs (with +25 musical mind enhance tapes), dancer buffs, Vasarian Brandy, Vagnerian Canape, Muon gold and Powerboost, I can get my stats up to:
4100/4500/5125
Granted, I'm human, but even so, other species can get well up into the same range as doc buffs for their mind as well.
Lexy
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:18 pm
#6
Oh, and one more thing. As with docs, you get varied results with dancer/musician buffs. Not in power, but in how long it takes to apply. The ones that know their stuff can buff you in a minimum of 3 minutes and 10 seconds (verified by me and many others, check out musician forums). When the new chef food T'ssolok works, it will reduce that time even further (under 3 mins to apply the buffs).
I can get fully buffed by a doc, dancer and musician in under 10 mins total.
I can get fully buffed by a doc, dancer and musician in under 10 mins total.
Slimjim_Iapkre
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:42 pm
#7
Lexy wrote:
Dancers and musicians only double your BASE stats, not what you currently have with food/drink/spice.
My mind stats are like this:
1100/800/1100
With Musician buffs (with +25 musical mind enhance tapes), dancer buffs, Vasarian Brandy, Vagnerian Canape, Muon gold and Powerboost, I can get my stats up to:
4100/4500/5125
Granted, I'm human, but even so, other species can get well up into the same range as doc buffs for their mind as well.
Just a comment here: you are most likely using 4 chef buffs (2 brandies and 2 canapes), a dancer buff, a musician buff, and a muon gold for mind enhancement. Note thatI don't think that there's anything wrong with doc buffs the way they are now. However, lets look at what you are doing.
You are using 7 separate buffs to match what 3 doc buffs do (namely enhance all stats of one HAM type) and none of those will last as long as a doc buff. To sustain that level for as long as a 3 hr doc buff(lets say minus the muon, which isn't really necessary at this point), you'd be getting:
1.5 dancer and musician buffs
8 vasarian brandies (assuming 45 min each)
24 canapes (assuming 15 min each, and that you can eat that many and not get full)
All that to match 3 doc buffs that most likely cost around 5k for all 3. However, since mind is the defining factor in combat, no matter what the devs say, maybe it's right that it costs much more to sustain that godlike mode.
Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:47 pm
#8
lol love starting a thread war just for suggesting a little injustice. ah the superiority complex well i give so much for a constructive convo
JasonK
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:55 pm
#9
You're barking up the wrong tree. Nothing is wrong with doc buffs. Your problem is with the entertainer buffs, and this isn't an entertainer forum.
KnightHawk420
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:01 pm
#10
JasonK wrote:
You're barking up the wrong tree. Nothing is wrong with doc buffs. Your problem is with the entertainer buffs, and this isn't an entertainer forum.
/agree
Ennsinn
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:16 pm
#11
KnightHawk420 wrote:
JasonK wrote:
You're barking up the wrong tree. Nothing is wrong with doc buffs. Your problem is with the entertainer buffs, and this isn't an entertainer forum.
/agree
Also no matter what (unless they have skill tapes) you know what your buffs are gonna be from an entertainer.
The cost is about the same for a Musician/Dancer buff as is Doc buff.
Theres nothing to complain about here really.
Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:36 pm
#12
actually if anyone would honestly read what i posted, i wasnt complaining about doc buffs. i was making a comparison and trying to provoke some ideas about why entertainers buffs do not have the abilities to do what doc buffs did, and if anyone had thought this was odd or a bit logical or illogical.
consequently enough, when i posted this same post onto dancer and musician boards i did not get flamed with hate letters and did not get irrational posts declaring horrid injustices, some agreed with me and wished there were things that could be done, and others said it wasnt so bad and then brought up interesting points of why things may have been the way they were actually defending, unlike here, the other 'side' of the 'arguement' that i never intended to create.
if everyone misunderstood this as a completerant about docs im sorry but you misunderstood, i was merely trying to start an intelligent conversation, which, from the posts i got i obviously failed to provoke. my complete apologies that i have apparently offended docs but making such a ridiculous comparison between their skills and the skills of others.
Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:13 pm
#13
oh and slimjim_lapkre, i would like to thank you for bringing up some intelligent points and actually analyzing things rather than flaming them 
(and as far as the "little trouble" i got called on, what i meant was without the musician exploit that'll probably get 'fixed' docs do not need to spend 8 minutes for a good buff, i did not say that making things was not difficult nor was it ever my claim that components that were decent enough were easy to come by.)
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