Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
Massadonious
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:16 pm
#1600
Wow, again with this? How long did it get to last time? 60+ pages?
Anyway, my thoughts still stand. I found a great guild today, so that renewed my faith, at least for a little bit.
What is it going to take for you to relay this info to the suits at SOE. Another 60 pages, 100? Or how about twice that amount of cancellations?
For god's sake TH, listen to what the people have to say for once, and not their thoughts about the new Jedi enclave, Village, or whatever it is. Listen to the majority.
AudioOrgana
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:16 pm
#1601
Krayvex wrote:
Saggis wrote:The thing that has the community so upset right now is that the bugs/unbalance in SWG is at a plague level. The game is virtually unrecognizable from what is described in the manuel that comes with it.While this is true, some of us are upset because we've been under the impression that our problems with combat were being fixed. We kept our accounts active as a result of that info. Now that we find out it was a load of **edit**, we sort of feel robbed. I do anyway. Don't think SOE will get anymore of my money. Can't trust them to deliver what they promise anymore.
I think this is the point.
The people that are accusing others of being "negative" are completely missing it.
THE DEVS think combat is broken. If you don't, great - good for you. But obviously the Devs see the problems with combat, or they wouldn't be doing a combat balance at all, dontchya think? If the Devs didn't see the extreme problems, we would not have been told how the Combat Balance was the holy grail, and it would not have been the stock answer to 75% of our combat questions/concerns. The rest of us who feel that certain parts of the game are terribly broken have been told since LAST YEAR that the Dev team was well aware of the problems and was in the process of fixing them.
Now we are told it's another six months. Someone above said, "duh, only three months!", but that's not the case. You think this combat balance is going to be ready the week JTL hits? Lets be generous and say that JTL makes it's release date of late October. This is when they are BEGINNING work on the Combat Balance, not when it's coming out - and further doesn't everyone expect, even if launch goes exceedingly well, that there will be some measure of patches/hotfixes/etc. that will last weeks/months after JTL hits. Again, even in the best scenario, the combat balance has been pushed back to next year.
And where does the Smuggler Revamp fit in? Weren't we told just a couple of weeks ago that "smuggler is top priority after JTL!"? And the Hutt Casnio adventure? And the vendor/merchant Revamp? Basicly, everything but Jedi has been shuffled to post-JTL. And although we don't have offical confirmation, statements in interviews by members of the staff have led people to believe that the GCW "revamp" isn't actually a revamp, but a whole expansion for us to buy. If you had told us that six months ago, no one would have believed you. Now? I'm not so sure.
People aren't just fed up with the delay of the delay of the delay, but the fact that we have been continuing playing, in good faith, being assured that these things would be completed and were of the highest priority. Supposedly, the "combat balance" was on the internal sandbox and was in serious development - but from the recent announcements those plans obviously weren't horribly solid or very far along even though they were presented as such.
If you are happy with combat, and the state of the GCW, more power to you - but don't discount people who are truly hurt that they have placed their trust and their wallets in SWG only to find out that the things we have been waiting for since 2003 aren't going to be here until 2005.
AO
Fight_the_Future
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:18 pm
#1602
I am fed up with all the resources going to JEDI related issues.
Are you expecting every player to become a jedi?
What, maybe .0005% maybe become Jedi. So you spend 80% of the development time on .0005% of the players? huh? Oh I get it, it keeps people wanting to be Jedi, stringing them along, for their monthly fees.....
...very sad.
mega3113
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:18 pm
#1603
Over an over people say that PvE is like running around in godmode and that itis boring. You have the option of using less skill points. You can reduce yourself to any level of combatant you want. I too enjoyed the days of not knowing if I would win a battle with a gnort or not. You can still have that while waiting for the balance. Don't wear armor, don't use buffs. What to do with those extra points? Become a master artisan and sit at the newbie spawn giving away speeders.
Simplistic answer. Doesn't address the basic balance flaws in the game. So you know, I don't use armor or buffs currently. Never really did. You know what though, that cuts off all the new content from me as they are balanced for people like you that use uber armor and buffs. I can't do any of the new stuff unless I buckle down and go into god mode. So don't say the answer is to not use them. As long as the imbalances exist the content that comes out will be messed up as well. If the content stinks then why continue to play the game?
Lets not even get into the special costs for most moves. Tell you what, you go play a pikeman unbuffed. See how much fun you have. All the game systems are permeated with the rot caused by uber buffs.
It also curtails me from doing any PvP. I'm not big into it but I would like to break up the monotony of killing squill once in a while. No armor and no buffs = no PvP.
I have no interest in becoming an artisan of any sort. Thanks for the suggestion though.
So your answer has me cut off from a sizeable protion of the game. It also ensures that any new portions of the game will be unplayable by me. I'm sorry but I'll take the balanced classes and fixed systems route.
Basically your ducking the point. Nobody should have god mode in a MMORPG. In SWG everyone has access to god mode out of the box. It makes the game dull and tedious after you killed your 1,000th rancor. You may like the gameshark plugged in but it makes for a terrible game design. There is no challenge or accomplishment in getting a master rank in any of the combat classes. Just put your armor on, buff yourself and go to the squill cave. 5 hours of hitting your most powerful special and there you go. That's the system you feel isn't flawed.
Qualdrin
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:19 pm
#1604
Ok. I haven't bothered to read the old archived thread, but I have read/skimmed most of the replies in the current thread. Everyone thinks this is a bad move, but I look at it differently.
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
And don't go off saying that the Jedi Revamp is not important to the combat rebalance, because it is. The hologrind was ruining the game even worse than the broken combat, and with publishes 9 and 10 that will finally be taken care of. Also, the Jedi system runs throughout the entire game, because of the new Force Sensitivity. Think about it - players will be able to augment their capabilities in combat because of it, both offensive and defensive. So yes, the Jedi Revamp is a necessary stepping stone to the combat rebalance.
I know my views are not going to be popular, and I expect to be one-starred by everyone reading this post, but someone has to throw a grain of sanity back to the discussion.
Qualdrin Mekanos
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
And don't go off saying that the Jedi Revamp is not important to the combat rebalance, because it is. The hologrind was ruining the game even worse than the broken combat, and with publishes 9 and 10 that will finally be taken care of. Also, the Jedi system runs throughout the entire game, because of the new Force Sensitivity. Think about it - players will be able to augment their capabilities in combat because of it, both offensive and defensive. So yes, the Jedi Revamp is a necessary stepping stone to the combat rebalance.
I know my views are not going to be popular, and I expect to be one-starred by everyone reading this post, but someone has to throw a grain of sanity back to the discussion.
Qualdrin Mekanos
Munitionsmaster
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:31 pm
#1606
I read a bunch of articles about SWG before it came out. Alot of the TIme it sorta felt like I was only playing half a star wars game. Thats because WE ARE. JTL has been in the minds of everyone since launch. The point of the ground was to give players a head start. If ground is totaly broken then stick it out for 2 or 3 months and we will have ships and never need the ground again (unless we crash into it 
)
)
Metherian
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:34 pm
#1607
Qualdrin wrote:
Ok. I haven't bothered to read the old archived thread, but I have read/skimmed most of the replies in the current thread. Everyone thinks this is a bad move, but I look at it differently.
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
And don't go off saying that the Jedi Revamp is not important to the combat rebalance, because it is. The hologrind was ruining the game even worse than the broken combat, and with publishes 9 and 10 that will finally be taken care of. Also, the Jedi system runs throughout the entire game, because of the new Force Sensitivity. Think about it - players will be able to augment their capabilities in combat because of it, both offensive and defensive. So yes, the Jedi Revamp is a necessary stepping stone to the combat rebalance.
I know my views are not going to be popular, and I expect to be one-starred by everyone reading this post, but someone has to throw a grain of sanity back to the discussion.
Qualdrin Mekanos
The point you so easily side-step, Qualdrin, is that we shouldn't even be having this stupid debate. This game shouldn't even be in the state that it currently is in--a state that has persisted for the past year. How much longer are we supposed to wait? How much longer are we supposed to pay for a game that is essentially broken? As someone who has been here since day one, I friggin' refuse to give this company any more money, not when I see every dime of it being spent on things that impactthesmallest portion of the playerbase.
Also, you talk about how it will be better if they complete the full revamp, instead of giving us small, partial 'fixes' here and there. Apparently, you didn't read TH's post: this is precisely what they are planning on doing--giving us some small, 'band-aid' fixes (instead of the full, complete rebalance, at least initially), so that combat may be made a little more fun. If you keep in mind thata full, complete over-haul of the game (professions, combat, armor, buffs, etc.)has been desperately needed for several months now, then perhaps you can begin to understand why people are angered, upset, and generally fed up at the moment.
Make no mistake; you cannot put any sort of positive spin on this announcement. You cannot ignore the developmental history of this game.
Message Edited by Metherian on 07-16-2004 11:49 PM
Rhysati
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:36 pm
#1608
Qualdrin wrote:
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
What makes you think it will be better because of this? O.o SWG has had plenty of time to get better...but has it? Not really. Also, what are you talking about? Rushing the combat balance? It has been in "development" since November!
Rhysati
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:41 pm
#1609
Munitionsmaster wrote:
I read a bunch of articles about SWG before it came out. Alot of the TIme it sorta felt like I was only playing half a star wars game. Thats because WE ARE. JTL has been in the minds of everyone since launch. The point of the ground was to give players a head start. If ground is totaly broken then stick it out for 2 or 3 months and we will have ships and never need the ground again (unless we crash into it
Guess what? This game wasn't really made for the fans of the movies. There is tons of stuff in the game that refers to the EU(Extended Universe), which is the novels. Those of us who aren't Jar-Jar lovers, like the game the way it is and couldn't care less about the space expansion. While I HAVE indeed been looking forward to the expansion...a couple things have made me decide that it isn't worth the wait:
1. I feel like I have been slapped in the face after being lied to about the "fixes" for so long.
2. I have no hope that the space expansion will even play right.
3. The videos I have seen of the space expansion, make me want to cry...as a fan of star wars novels, and as someone who has read the entire "X-Wing" series at least 20 times, I can see so many flaws with the way the fighters fly, the way they fight, etc. and I know that the devs won't get it right.
So, if you feel you didn't get a whole Star Wars game, then go play another one. This is an MMORPG, and it is actually pretty silly to add in ships that aren't going to work right anyway...well wait, I guess pets and Vehicles have worked fine since they came out. /rolleyes
mega3113
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:48 pm
#1610
Ok. I haven't bothered to read the old archived thread, but I have read/skimmed most of the replies in the current thread. Everyone thinks this is a bad move, but I look at it differently.
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
And don't go off saying that the Jedi Revamp is not important to the combat rebalance, because it is. The hologrind was ruining the game even worse than the broken combat, and with publishes 9 and 10 that will finally be taken care of. Also, the Jedi system runs throughout the entire game, because of the new Force Sensitivity. Think about it - players will be able to augment their capabilities in combat because of it, both offensive and defensive. So yes, the Jedi Revamp is a necessary stepping stone to the combat rebalance.
I know my views are not going to be popular, and I expect to be one-starred by everyone reading this post, but someone has to throw a grain of sanity back to the discussion.
Qualdrin Mekanos
Which would you rather have: combat that's even more broken than before because they tried to rush the combat rebalance, or working, balanced combat because they took their time? I, for one, would rather have the Devs take their time and get things right instead of putting up with rushed code that makes combat even worse than it is. Most of you don't know anything about coding, so you don't understand what it takes to write the code for SWG. And if the Devs think there aren't enough people to work on the combat rebalance, then they are probably right. Look at it this way: both JTL *and* the combat rebalance will be better off as a whole because of this.
And don't go off saying that the Jedi Revamp is not important to the combat rebalance, because it is. The hologrind was ruining the game even worse than the broken combat, and with publishes 9 and 10 that will finally be taken care of. Also, the Jedi system runs throughout the entire game, because of the new Force Sensitivity. Think about it - players will be able to augment their capabilities in combat because of it, both offensive and defensive. So yes, the Jedi Revamp is a necessary stepping stone to the combat rebalance.
I know my views are not going to be popular, and I expect to be one-starred by everyone reading this post, but someone has to throw a grain of sanity back to the discussion.
Qualdrin Mekanos
Your assuming JTL won't be rushed out the door in as near a buggy a state as SWG was. Based on history that's a huge leap of faith.
It's a year after release. Most of us have been patiently waiting for over 6 months for the CB. How much more time should we give them to "get it right"? Right now we're talking another 6 months. What happens when JTL needs attention? Do we give them another year? Two? How long should we sit around and wait for SOE to fix the basic underlying combat system of their game? A system they admit is totally messed up.
Look, if we were asking for some perk, like player cities or a new jedi class, then I'd be right there with you. Let's wait for them to get it right. We're talking about the entire combat system which the game is founded upon! This shouldn't have gotten out of beta like this. The fact that they need a CB in the first place speaks to the fact that the whole system is screwed. The fact that fixing the biggest component of their game which was broken on a fundamental level wasn't their highest priority the second they figured out it was flawed shows how well run their development team is.
Don't try and make us feel like ourrequests are unreasonable. We just want the game fixed. We were promised again and again that it would be. Every time a new priority took the place of fixing the games fundamental flaws.
Giving a company years to actually get theirbasic game designto the point where it should have been on release is not a grain of sanity. It's quite the opposite.
Message Edited by mega3113 on 07-16-2004 11:53 PM
nefarious2
Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:00 am
#1611
Trobon18 wrote:
I'm back and I'll keep posting my different opinions (which no one wants to hear) until this thread dies.
You all do realize that you have given TH less than 24 hours to report this community outbreak to his supervisors. You all jumped in and quit as soon as it was said without ever giving consideration to the change you could make. These things take time, usualy a lot of time. If you expect what has been said on this thread to make its way to the Man you need to give TH at the very least a few days. For all we know your point has gotten across, but so many of you have quit. It will be ahrd to continue the game with so few left.
I still support the boycott of JTL and am ready to start it... In fact I just did head on over to
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=38682
to sign it. Please TH if you dont mind would you go and stop by the thread for me. Thanks.
May the Force be with You... Always.
Never underestimate the power of a deadline.
If everyone here hit the cancel button on there acounts, that means they may have anywhere from a few days to a few months before the account expires. I would lean on the week side for most peoples accounts, so SOE better pull a very real and alive bunny out of there hat if they want people to go back in and hit the credit card button.
I do like the game, however I am only sticking around for my friends for now, however my account is sitting on canel right now, and I will NOT be buying JtL. I was looking forward to i, however after this brilliant idea I don't think they can do anything except count money.
Trobon18
Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:00 am
#1612
Rhysati
If everyone quits there will be nothing to fix. If the money drys out then there will be no erason to keep the game going. I am not naive. I understand idle threats mean nothing. NOT buying JTL will be the action. No prfit from that coupled with the boycott is the point. It will give them a reason why no one is buying JTL.
What I do understand is that if we keep this up too amny people will quit in anger and all that was once good and green will be gone. There wont be a Galaxies to come back to. Don't you understand Pippin... errr.... Rhysati. 
May the Force be with You... Always.