Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever

Dodece
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:19 pm
#1587



The joke is on the negative nay sayers. These angry voices you hear. Follow this its scarey. These are the voices of reason. We are the ones that kept the others playing, by saying just another month hold in there. We are the good guys.The fact that we came here to scream as loud as possible to the devs stop what your doing. You are killing the game. Is a testament to how good a people we are. The game is in serious jeopardy. Saying that it is not is like ignoreing a cataclysm while you stand in the middle.


This is the formula the game follows for combat now. You go to coronet concede 25000 credits to a doc so you can go to the dantooine mineing outpost to join a solo group. So you can go run thirty thousand credit missions. You are wearing a million credit suit of composite, and you are drinking vasarian brandy constantly. You are littlerally wasteing more time to play the game, and the economy is skyrocketing out of control. I was on the auction chat yesterday guess what I heard someone say. Oh well I was looking to trade credits are worthless. Grouping is dead. Dangerous combat is dead. Pvp is dead. Pve is a joke since you can take down anything with buffs. The fourty graul maulers I killed in ten minutes can attest to that. The idea of getting somewhere involves camping a dungeon for random loot drops.


People were willing to tolerate this emptiness, because we were told it would be right soon. Now we were getting near soon, and they say another six months. That is not reasonable. Nobody can see the reason to play a game for six more months, and get no good game experience for it.


Yeah we are loud and obnoxious, because we were hurt and betrayed. The devs turned on us, and we were their pals. For every person in a last desperate cry for help who came here ten packed up and left quietly, This is our most desperate hour, and the devs just do not seem to care. Infact I bet the only time they will get around to careing is when this game is dead and beyond salvation. People are going towards the exits now. I feal for you guys who somewhere still have some hope, but you cannot carry this game alone. In a months time the entire user base will be able to fit in one server. The multiplayer will be completely gone, and you will be playing by yourself.


Do not blame TH? Please lets stop looking to let people off. He is just as much a part of the problem as every one in the situation. Its lucas arts fault? SOE beleive it or not is a partner in the endeavor they have influence over what happens. Just as they have influence over SOE. TH is a team player as he likes to point out. If he wants to take part in the adjulation. He can share in the hate mail.


For those saying JTL first its so needed. At the rate things are going. You might count on playership in the game being under one hundred thousand. With all the people leaveing starting a chain reaction. That is hardly a user base to sell a game on. In other words if the ground game is dead the space game may never show up. You might not expect to see JTL till swg2. Think about it a huge risk on soes part if swg is obviously dead to release a game that might not sell to add onto it.
Allankyoto
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:19 pm
#1588

Well I don't consider myself a complainer. I prefer to look for solutions to problems. Here are the problems as I see them:

1. Dev's are stretched too thin and SOE is unwilling to commit anymore resources to SWG in general. This in my mind is the single biggest problem. Most of their programmers are over working on EQII (after all that's where the big money is right?)

2. The current method for updates is inadequate. It might not be bad if the Dev's had a full staff to work on the problems but they don't.

I think people can rant on and on about stuff but basically all the subsequent problems are a result of the above two points.

So what's the solution? SOE needs to hire more people to work on SWG. SOE needs to revamp how and what happens in an update.

Basically when I hear an announcement of more people coming on board to help with development I'll believe the game is going to make some serious progress. Until then, I think it's safe to assume Sony is trying to wind down development on SWG and push everyone over into EQII.
Bloodfin_Architect
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:19 pm
#1589

Hello All,


Here is a very recent review of SWG from a well respected on-line game site. I think it pretty much sums up the frustration we all feel and then some. TH, please read this review if you haven't already. The decisions made by SOE are being watched by more than just the players.


http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/review/gameID/6



Crafters and Entertainers Anonymous
One Publish Closer to a Cure

Dodece
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:28 pm
#1590

I salute everyone and apologize for the multiple post. Anyway its plain to see at some point tommorrow this thread will be up over twenty pages, and in a couple days it too will need to be archived. I hope the devs wake up and smell that they crossed the line, and that they better step back.
Attichetcuk
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:30 pm
#1591






mega3113 wrote:




rohm,

Please refer to positive reason 1, 2 and 7. I don't understand why you feel that the ground game is so broken. Just because one class might have a few advantages over another class doesnt mean that all non-jedi classes are not playable. I have been a master pistoleer! The most "broken" class out there and still managed to have a blast. Forgive the pun. I have also tried bounty hunter creature handler, rifleman, fencer, doctor, tka and commando. The ground game is not broken. Specials and defenses could use some work but no class is unplayable. If you are speaking about some classes being stronger in PvP then thats another story, but then again this is not or never wil be a 100% PvP game. And yes the u33ber D00ds will rule the PvP part of the ground game. But then again who cares. I and most people don't fightPvP anyways. For me, a small group of friends hunting ismuch morefun. Don't you realize that the combat balance is a big nerf? That defenses and damage will be lowered? That the to hit numbers will be lowered? That theresist numbers will be lowered? Why would you want that to happen so bad? Being short sighted is not understanding what the combat balance really means for PvE. Enjoy what you have and look forward to the wonders of space.






The ground game is broken mainly because of buffs and armor. There is absolutely no challenge in this game. No sense of adventure. Any newbie can log in, get buffed by his friend and be given some armor and solo 99% of the game.


Maybe you enjoy your uberness now in PvE but call it what it is, godmode. For those of us who played the game from the beginning, we know how fun, challenging and rewarding this game was before buffs and armor ruined it. I think its great that you and your small group of friends will have to actually be careful on planets like Endor. That you'll actually have to use tactics and you can't just go around ripping sh_t up with no worries or danger. That you will actually tread lightly on Dath. That you will carefully poke around Yavin while going to the Geo cave. That's what makes a game fun. Balance. A sense of danger.


My hope for the CB was for it to balance the classes against each other and the environment. I want the gameshark turned off. That will make SWG a great game again. As it stands now SWG is a dull shell of a game with broken basic systems. Soon to be a dull shell of a game with broken basic systems with a space expansion. Basic combat and class design shouldn't be fundamentalybroken over a year into a games release. You can spin it how you like but, let me reiterate, basic combat and class design shouldn't be fundamentalybroken over a year into a games release.


People are pissed because SWG isn't even out of beta before they're bringing on the expansion. A game with broken and unbalanced classes and systems just isn't fun for most peoplein the long run (and I'd say a year is quite a long run).If you can't understand that then I don't know what else to say.








Over an over people say that PvE is like running around in godmode and that itis boring. You have the option of using less skill points. You can reduce yourself to any level of combatant you want. I too enjoyed the days of not knowing if I would win a battle with a gnort or not. You can still have that while waiting for the balance. Don't wear armor, don't use buffs. What to do with those extra points? Become a master artisan and sit at the newbie spawn giving away speeders.

tralita_tusnami
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:36 pm
#1592


Sorry im not a UBER poster, or a crazy person that hasent seen anything good in the game. Im going to point good things ive seen and Bad thing and COOLEST BANTHA POODOO EVER things.


Best things

-the empire gaining ground on the rebs in terms of #s

-slices of 43% encumbrance on stun armor, jsut wish it was my armor i sliced when i did that

-finding crystal, or for that matter any UBER loot

-actualy being able to use that UBER loot myself instead of having to decide to hold on to it till i never use it OR sell it

-Player cities

-player guilds

-mounts then bikes THANK GOD!!!


Bad things

-(although this has been replaced) the devs prefrance for Rebels

-the overwelliming PREFANCE for jedi who were like the devs babies "were watching a few players closely"

-THE JEDI REVAMP, this could of waited, should of waited untell after combat ballance

-holo grinding, eating up LARGE chunks of cash from the economy

-how easy it is to BUY professions or BUY cash from EBay no I HAVE NOT DONE THIS YET SO DONT BAN MY ACCOUNT!!!

-Broken professions, EVERYPROFESSION has at least ONE thing wrong with it ie... smugglers dont even have filled out boxes

-Delaying smuggler revamp

-Delaying GCW

-Delaying COMBAT REVAMP

-the way your never going to see this post cause apparently they never get read


COOLEST BANTHA POODOO EVER

-theme parks, totaly awsome

-Treasure maps, i know it sounds funny but i LOVE THEM jsut wish for better mid range loot, ive gotten pistols and crystals but not much inbetween

- THE AWSOME PEOPLE IN THIS GAME


QUICK CHANGES (HERE IT COME MY TYRAIDE)


- use you fabulous data crunchers that do the astro mech stats to compile a list of what specialized professions most people are

and use that data and find #1-5 those professions what ever they might be NEED attention cause thats the largest player base, or the very people that are complaining and quiting, im not saying FIX EVERYTHING jsut the top4 complaints

-use the data to pick the next 6-10 professions and fix the top3 complaints

-and again use the data to fix11-25 and fix the top 2 complaints

-and last time use the data for fix 26-33 (i think including jedi) and fix the #1 complaint


easy way to find out what needs to be fixed according to the players? use the polls compile the top 10 from each profession what ever #1 is for each profession it will be fixed that way EVERYONE (not just jedi get TLC) i know thats 58 things to be done but they are OUR top concerns. I understand this might throw the game in to some sort of dissaray actualy having broken things fixed, but im guessing that 58 items can be done in a week if every dev works on it that puts it 2 weeks from being in the game cause of the poll time. NOT THAT YOUR GOING TO READ THIS cause im not a uber writer or anything


Tralita Tsunami

BRIA

guild ESF

master smuggler/pistoler/defender of jawas






_____________________________________________________
Some aspire to be the best, Thunderheart aspires to be just like me
"I may look like an Ewok, but I'm all Wookie where it counts, baby."

Tralita Tusnami
Bria server
MASTER SMUGLER/BOUNTY HUNTER/PISTOLER
Ace2
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:46 pm
#1593

Take your time but not to much time, the community has been waiting to long for these changes already. A few fast fixes like reducingCM and rifleman DMG would help allot while we wait for the complete revamp. It also should give a better few of the changes that should be made if the current combat proffessions are more in line with eachother.






Ravenn Warrior
Master Shipwright
Coronet: 710 -5100
+20 Weapons/Engines/Chassis Exp
GForce Industries for all your component needs
Munitionsmaster
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:46 pm
#1594


I understand that this was not an easy move for the devs to make. I am glad they relise this is sorta an awkward time right now in terms of PVP and combat in general. I am glad in a way that they did push the CB back. This way it will be perfect and will fit in the game. No one wants a half &$$ publish that is at the very heart of the game. The devs are going to be doing open brain surgery on the game and if they say they need a bit of time to prepair then I say let them. If you were going in for surgery which case would you want to be in:


"We have found that you have a serious heart problem and you will need surgery, however we do not know the extent of the damage. We will need time to study the situation and bring in the surgeons who have done similar operations before"

or

"We have found a serious problem with your heart and you need surgery. We have a general idea of what is wrong so if you will just hop up on the desk here we will get started".


This game is still fun with out the CB and if you think PVP is totaly broken....DONT PVP. Well thats my 2 cents. Thanks TH for keeping us updated.

Message Edited by Munitionsmaster on 07-16-2004 10:49 PM



Ternel-

Former Master Weaponsmith for over 2 years
Citizen of the Tempest Server
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are stupider than that." -George Carlin

Metherian
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:49 pm
#1595










AntiM767 wrote:



Answer:
People will cancel their accounts. Potentially a good number of people will cancel their accounts. This possibility, while altogether undesirable, is not overly concerning in the grander scheme of things. The influx of new players into the game seems to be healthy enough based on Mos Eisley crowds. The most unhappy players are likely to be the older end-game level players they have more vested in the game and are less likely to quit as a result. The ones that do will likely return in substantial numbers once JTL is released along with many new subscribers which should more than compensate for those that left never to return (plus they'll ALL be paying for it ;p).





I get rather amused when I see these positive, forward-thinking posts.


First, you're assuming that, when the JTL expansion is released, it will be relatively bug-free and will not upset future scheduling of programming tasks. However, if we look at the dev's 'track record', as it were, there is no way in hell that you can support such a claim. SWG is one of the only games where dev's will 'fix' one area of the game... only to inadvertently break some totally unrelated area, then spend weeks trying to figure out what they did wrong. That, to me, bespeaksnothing but bug-ridden code, poorQA/QC standards, and a shoddy implementation strategy. This sort of of unprofessional way of handling deliverables (not to mention customer support) will drive people away for good. Make no mistake of that.


Second,all this talk about new players flooding the game when the older players leave is pure, unfounded conjecture based on nothing but subjective whimsy. Given the fact that SWG launched with one of the largest playerbases indicates that a large majority of die-hard SWG players have already been 'in game', have already become accustomed to the bug-ridden ruin that it is, and have finally just given up and moved on... to better, well-written games that are actually fun to play. What new players should the SWG dev's expect to find, when they've already tapped the Star Wars fanbase for the past year? How many new fans of Star Wars canthey possibly lure with empty promises?People fail to recognize the fact that the MMORPGmarket "audience" is finite. In spite of common belief, there is not an infinite playerbase of MMORPG'ers, especially those who are willing to pay a fee, month after month, for what is essentially a broken game.


Third, these claims are declared with no regard for any of the newer games that are on/or will be entering the market by the end of this year. Regardless of whether a person isa die-hard fan or not, if a game is 'pointless', 'worthless', and thoroughly 'unfun', a gamer is not going to play it, and all the optimism in the world is not going to bring a person back to a bug-ridden game and a development team that has consistently screwed up and shown little to no regard for their current playerbase. Also, older gamers, in my opinion, are more likely to leave a game such as this, and not return; remember, these are people who have real life responsibilites (like jobs, families, etc.), and hardly have the time/inclination to put up with the ongoing, needless frustration provided by playing this game; it's just not worth it.More often than not, these people will choose to finda better game to play, one that is supported by a dev team who knows what they're doing.


The SWG dev's knew they had to 'make good' with the combat rebalance. They've known since the first month of release that the most fundamental game mechanics (combat, buffs, armor, etc.) were seriously flawed and open to gradual abuse. And yet, in spite of all their talk and 'flowery' prose about how much 'better things will be', they have essentially pulled a "bait and switch" routine with this announcement.


This, in addition to everything else, is also a bone of contention, I think.. this whole "bait and switch" nonsense.Had the dev's been honest from the beginning, and simply told everyone that, 'Hey, sorry--we screwed up thegame (with hologrinding, buffs, armor, broken professions, etc.), but maybe next year we'll get around to fixing it"--well, had they said that, many people would have just outrightquit right there and then, including me. But they didn't do that. They weren't truthful. Instead, they dreamed up some elaborate 'miracle' fix and pawned it off onto the public with a nice set of empty promises they had no intention of honoring. So, instead of quitting this game months ago, we have hordes of players who find themselvse in the bewildering position of having the rug pulled out from under them: they stayed onwith this game, for one thing only (combat rebalance), and now they're told, "Gee, we're sorry, that won't happen until next year--becuase, you know, Jedi players and the JTL are more important than you. Have a nice day."


In the business world, this is known as a 'show-stopper', and it usually signals the end of a viable customer-business relationship.

Message Edited by Metherian on 07-16-2004 11:07 PM

DrHoe
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:57 pm
#1596

/sigh bahhhh If you were only half the company Blizzard is this game would work!



NUA TKM/Master Doctor
Black Lotus Clan.
ratlif
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:04 pm
#1597






illewind wrote:





ratlif wrote:


I really think it is time that Soe pushed this game back into "beta" stage.
Seriously, every aspect of the game is broken.



  1. Professions
  2. Combat
  3. GCW
  4. Jedi
  5. Loot tables


Gam was pushed way to earlier. I can not even comprehend how JTL is being pushed out the door when the base core of the game itself does not work. It is broke on the ground, it will be broke in space. I for one never planned on getting JTL in the first place. I thought it would not be out until THIS game was fixed first.

Seriously TH you need to let the suits that are running this show take a look at this thread. Not just the PR team.
I am sure everyone right now is asking themselves why they are paying for a game that is broken. I am sure alot of the game review companies out there would love to get insight on what is really going on.

What happens when JTL comes out? There is going to be bugs, everyone knows that. That will be 1st priority because it will get new subscribers that don't read reviews. Cool but then what happens to the people that been here for so long, the MAIN MONEY PITS that are keeping this game afloat.

Seriously. Look when the game first came out at all the subscriptions. Now look... give it 2 months then look again. Sinking faster then a fat broad in quicksand.

You say you will be working with the community to fix things for us as if it was a way of saying sorry for the delay, we will fix these things for you.
Sorry but this is supposed to be an ongoing thing when it comes to MMORPG developments. Not something that happens when a update gets delayed as compensation.
Speaking of which, compensation? Do we get any? Do current subscribers get free copies of JTL? A free month or two? I am sure if everyone got a a free month of play for the months that the rebalance is delay, it would come out quicker then you can imagine.

I can tell you right now that alot of the "team" that is working on this game would NOT want it tobe on their resume. I for sure would not.








you apperently have never been fishing...thats is a great part of the game...bleh to the rest...i hope they come out with a fishing profession...Master Angler





Funny thing is, FISHING IS WHAT got me interested in this game last summer/fall while i was reading a pc gamer mag that had an article about swg.




Account Cancelled August 5, 2004
Reason: Lack of attention on a severly broke core game.
Rhysati
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:07 pm
#1598

You know...I used to actually stand up for this game. I thought it was the best I had ever seen....but since I started it has only gotten worse. Everyday a new bug is around to bother me, and changes are made that either don't effect me, effect me negatively, or just plain, do not work. Now, I find out that SOE has slapped me in the face for even thinking that this game was worth my time. Why on earth, would ANYONE think that the JtL expansion will be worth it, when they haven't even gotten the main game working? This astoundes me to no end. I cannot fathom how some people can sit here and go: "So what if they are pushing it back, that means it will work better! And the Jump to Lightspeed expansion will rule!"...They have had PLENTY of time to get THIS game working and have failed to do so...so why do you people think the expansion will be different?...
Fight_the_Future
Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:15 pm
#1599

I am fed up with all the resources going to JEDI related issues.


Are you expecting every player to become a jedi?


What, maybe .0005% maybe become Jedi. So you spend 80% of the development time on .0005% of the players? huh? Oh I get it, it keeps people wanting to be Jedi, stringing them along, for their monthly fees.....


...very sad.

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