Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
Attichetcuk
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:05 pm
#1561
Strohm,
Please refer to positive reason 1, 2 and 7. I don't understand why you feel that the ground game is so broken. Just because one class might have a few advantages over another class doesnt mean that all non-jedi classes are not playable. I have been a master pistoleer! The most "broken" class out there and still managed to have a blast. Forgive the pun. I have also tried bounty hunter creature handler, rifleman, fencer, doctor, tka and commando. The ground game is not broken. Specials and defenses could use some work but no class is unplayable. If you are speaking about some classes being stronger in PvP then thats another story, but then again this is not or never wil be a 100% PvP game. And yes the u33ber D00ds will rule the PvP part of the ground game. But then again who cares. I and most people don't fightPvP anyways. For me, a small group of friends hunting ismuch morefun. Don't you realize that the combat balance is a big nerf? That defenses and damage will be lowered? That the to hit numbers will be lowered? That theresist numbers will be lowered? Why would you want that to happen so bad? Being short sighted is not understanding what the combat balance really means for PvE. Enjoy what you have and look forward to the wonders of space.
ZidayaXhen
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:07 pm
#1562
i agree with you i think the combat balance should have been done before JTL, but i think they should've just continued what they were doing instead of delaying it if they were reading the forum post about any of the problems they shouldn't have been a problem with the devs balancing the combat personally i think buffs are the source of the problem but eh what do i know
jalia
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:08 pm
#1563
Atti you really are SOE's perfect customer...
I have some swampland in Florida I would like to sell you...can we meet...?
Attichetcuk
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:15 pm
#1564
jalia wrote:
Atti you really are SOE's perfect customer...
I have some swampland in Florida I would like to sell you...can we meet...?
I would love to but I just got a great offer for oceanfront property in Arizona. Great price it seems.
But seriously, I'm not the perfect customer but I do refuse to feed into the negativity that so many throw out there.
Strohm
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:20 pm
#1565
I don't want to bash or argue with you, we're all in this together. But pointing out fact or even opinion is not necesarily being "negative". I'm negative about the way this product is managed and I want it changed. Seriously, I work in the tech sector as a project manager and I would be fired for any of the missed schedules, poor customer service, or continual mismanagement. Read what I say in the GCW forum "Save Our Game". This was supposed to be an immersive experience in a particular story, and a particular time. This excited me, and many others, so where is it? I want it now and I'm tired of being told "Just wait until publish x" or worse yet "when we finish with publish x, y, and z, which are a year behind, we might start a discussion about what you want". I'm not negative on the game, I'm negative on the way it is managed and I want it changed RIGHT NOW.
Attichetcuk wrote:
jalia wrote:
Atti you really are SOE's perfect customer...
I have some swampland in Florida I would like to sell you...can we meet...?
I would love to but I just got a great offer for oceanfront property in Arizona. Great price it seems.
But seriously, I'm not the perfect customer but I do refuse to feed into the negativity that so many throw out there.
Hadriaan
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:22 pm
#1566
I actually am not that upset over this..... I just feel like i'm a wind-up monkey sometimes.
Thunderheart, you have some serious balls to take all this undeserved flak and not get mad. I salute you!
AntiM767
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:25 pm
#1567
Before you get too wound up in the general sense of discord and frustration being expressed over the announcement of the delays, I would offer a few points for your consideration.
Point:
It is my understanding that these delays are due in large part to a lack of manpower on the developer staff.
Assuming that the delays are the result of the developer team being diminished due to the ongoing development of the Jump to Lightspeed expansion. Consider the options for handling the problem.
You could:
A) Pull these developers off of JTL to address the revamp/bug issues on live.
Problem: Pulling the developers off of JTL will delay JTL. Space, being a defining aspect of the Star Wars experience, is a vital component of the game and as such, is in all honesty, already past due.
B) Hire more developers. There's no shortage of gee... er, programmers in the world who would die to land a position in SOE coding Star Wars games.
Problem: True, adding additional staff would in all likelihood result in the ability to get more done. The issue here being time. It takes time to advertise, interview, hire and train new staff. Bringing in new staff and getting them up to speed to the point that they are actually useful is likely to take 6 to 8 weeks. Given that it is mid-July, you could be looking at mid-September before you are really starting to get a lot out of your new staff. JTL, if all goes as planned, should be out in late October at which point you're original team is back together plus all of these new guys. All of a sudden you are overstaffed.
Point:
What really happens if they delay (as they have) most of these things until they have the entire dev team back?
Answer:
People will cancel their accounts. Potentially a good number of people will cancel their accounts. This possibility, while altogether undesirable, is not overly concerning in the grander scheme of things. The influx of new players into the game seems to be healthy enough based on Mos Eisley crowds. The most unhappy players are likely to be the older end-game level players they have more vested in the game and are less likely to quit as a result. The ones that do will likely return in substantial numbers once JTL is released along with many new subscribers which should more than compensate for those that left never to return (plus they'll ALL be paying for it ;p).
The forums will be replete with the bilious rancor of a few dozen angry posters. May have to pay Garva some overtime keeping that in hand but I'd be surprised if Garva is rolling in a Porsche, so that's probably acceptable.
All in all the delaying of these thing just makes business sense. Bringing in extra staff would just cost money in both the short and long term. Delaying JTL will cost money that has already been invested in getting it to where it is (ROI folks). They are just as likely to lose as many or more players to a Galaxies without space (cuz it just aint Star Wars without stars) as they will because of the delay in a revamp.
They can talk about wanting to make sure it's quality and whatnot, and I'm not saying that isn't a concern, but at the end of the day it just makes business sense more than anything else. Is that a bad thing? No, making good business decisions insure the longevity of the game. Is it inconvenient and somewhat of a disappointment today? Sure. My brother actually cancelled his account yesterday, which sucks. But you know what? When things do get better he'll be back at some point in the future and decisions like this one, though wildly unpopular, do speak to the fact that somebody upstairs at SOE is being pragmatic enough so that there IS a future.
That's pretty much how I see it.
Point:
It is my understanding that these delays are due in large part to a lack of manpower on the developer staff.
Assuming that the delays are the result of the developer team being diminished due to the ongoing development of the Jump to Lightspeed expansion. Consider the options for handling the problem.
You could:
A) Pull these developers off of JTL to address the revamp/bug issues on live.
Problem: Pulling the developers off of JTL will delay JTL. Space, being a defining aspect of the Star Wars experience, is a vital component of the game and as such, is in all honesty, already past due.
B) Hire more developers. There's no shortage of gee... er, programmers in the world who would die to land a position in SOE coding Star Wars games.
Problem: True, adding additional staff would in all likelihood result in the ability to get more done. The issue here being time. It takes time to advertise, interview, hire and train new staff. Bringing in new staff and getting them up to speed to the point that they are actually useful is likely to take 6 to 8 weeks. Given that it is mid-July, you could be looking at mid-September before you are really starting to get a lot out of your new staff. JTL, if all goes as planned, should be out in late October at which point you're original team is back together plus all of these new guys. All of a sudden you are overstaffed.
Point:
What really happens if they delay (as they have) most of these things until they have the entire dev team back?
Answer:
People will cancel their accounts. Potentially a good number of people will cancel their accounts. This possibility, while altogether undesirable, is not overly concerning in the grander scheme of things. The influx of new players into the game seems to be healthy enough based on Mos Eisley crowds. The most unhappy players are likely to be the older end-game level players they have more vested in the game and are less likely to quit as a result. The ones that do will likely return in substantial numbers once JTL is released along with many new subscribers which should more than compensate for those that left never to return (plus they'll ALL be paying for it ;p).
The forums will be replete with the bilious rancor of a few dozen angry posters. May have to pay Garva some overtime keeping that in hand but I'd be surprised if Garva is rolling in a Porsche, so that's probably acceptable.
All in all the delaying of these thing just makes business sense. Bringing in extra staff would just cost money in both the short and long term. Delaying JTL will cost money that has already been invested in getting it to where it is (ROI folks). They are just as likely to lose as many or more players to a Galaxies without space (cuz it just aint Star Wars without stars) as they will because of the delay in a revamp.
They can talk about wanting to make sure it's quality and whatnot, and I'm not saying that isn't a concern, but at the end of the day it just makes business sense more than anything else. Is that a bad thing? No, making good business decisions insure the longevity of the game. Is it inconvenient and somewhat of a disappointment today? Sure. My brother actually cancelled his account yesterday, which sucks. But you know what? When things do get better he'll be back at some point in the future and decisions like this one, though wildly unpopular, do speak to the fact that somebody upstairs at SOE is being pragmatic enough so that there IS a future.
That's pretty much how I see it.
Message Edited by AntiM767 on 07-17-2004 12:27 AM
ZidayaXhen
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:27 pm
#1568
i seriously think if they delay combat balance they have killed SWG just like E&B or was that EVE online i don't know but i have that feeling that this game will be meeting the same fate shortly
Khaoz
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:36 pm
#1569
Jeez.
I take a look at the first page of replies and see nothing but negative comments. I assume the rest of the pages are exactly as such. I wonder exactly how, if you personally ready through these Thunderheart, manage to -not- send paid assassins after a good half-dozen of them. = P
Unfourtunatly, a majority of the people in this game only dwell on the negatives; constantly complaining about things they simply can't change.
Oh, and for those who can't count, post-October is three months away, not six.
I don't feel like saying much because it will be drowned by the constant flow of hate that surrounds.
I certainly hope that this game improves. Period.
As with any MMORPG, it should improve over time. I see some things wrong with this game, but not enough for me to give up the character that I have had since day one.
Thunderheart,
I want all that you said in that statement to be true.
That is all... Like I said before I didn't feel like writing much because it would be a waste in a thread like this where there is nothing but hatred.
Strohm
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:37 pm
#1570
AntiM767 wrote:
Before you get too wound up in the general sense of discord and frustration being expressed over the announcement of the delays, I would offer a few points for your consideration.
Point:
It is my understanding that these delays are due in large part to a lack of manpower on the developer staff.
Assuming that the delays are the result of the developer team being diminished due to the ongoing development of the Jump to Lightspeed expansion. Consider the options for handling the problem.
You could:
A) Pull these developers off of JTL to address the revamp/bug issues on live.
Problem: Pulling the developers off of JTL will delay JTL. Space, being a defining aspect of the Star Wars experience, is a vital component of the game and as such, is in all honesty, already past due.
B) Hire more developers. There's no shortage of gee... er, programmers in the world who would die to land a position in SOE coding Star Wars games.
Problem: True, adding additional staff would in all likelihood result in the ability to get more done. The issue here being time. It takes time to advertise, interview, hire and train new staff. Bringing in new staff and getting them up to speed to the point that they are actually useful is likely to take 6 to 8 weeks. Given that it is mid-July, you could be looking at mid-September before you are really starting to get a lot out of your new staff. JTL, if all goes as planned, should be out in late October at which point you're original team is back together plus all of these new guys. All of a sudden you are overstaffed.
Point:
What really happens if they delay (as they have) most of these things until they have the entire dev team back?
Answer:
People will cancel their accounts. Potentially a good number of people will cancel their accounts. This possibility, while altogether undesirable, is not overly concerning in the grander scheme of things. The influx of new players into the game seems to be healthy enough based on Mos Eisley crowds. The most unhappy players are likely to be the older end-game level players they have more vested in the game and are less likely to quit as a result. The ones that do will likely return in substantial numbers once JTL is released along with many new subscribers which should more than compensate for those that left never to return (plus they'll ALL be paying for it ;p).
The forums will be replete with the bilious rancor of a few dozen angry posters. May have to pay Garva some overtime keeping that in hand but I'd be surprised if Garva is rolling in a Porsche, so that's probably acceptable.
All in all the delaying of these thing just makes business sense. Bringing in extra staff would just cost money in both the short and long term. Delaying JTL will cost money that has already been invested in getting it to where it is (ROI folks). They are just as likely to lose as many or more players to a Galaxies without space (cuz it just aint Star Wars without stars) as they will because of the delay in a revamp.
They can talk about wanting to make sure it's quality and whatnot, and I'm not saying that isn't a concern, but at the end of the day it just makes business sense more than anything else. Is that a bad thing? No, making good business decisions insure the longevity of the game. Is it inconvenient and somewhat of a disappointment today? Sure. My brother actually cancelled his account yesterday, which sucks. But you know what? When things do get better he'll be back at some point in the future and decisions like this one, though wildly unpopular, do speak to the fact that somebody upstairs at SOE is being pragmatic enough so that there IS a future.
That's pretty much how I see it.
Message Edited by AntiM767 on 07-17-2004 12:27 AM
AntiM, thanks for bringing reasoned debate, even if I disagree.
First, your premise is that the sale of the game (new accounts) will offset the recurring revenue lost from veterans leaving. My bet is that is not the case. If you look at Mos Eisely, that is ALL the new folks now, so it just looks like a lot. These guys are already behind the 8 ball with thier mismanagement, so you are saying they have to pick the least evil. It seems to me that they are betting the farm that JTL will either keep enough of us around or draw in enough new folks to offset the veterans that they are driving out. Do those numbers make sense? Maybe. But those folks would be there anyway later. I believe that they should have fixed the core game first, and delayed JTL; then you get both the veterans staying and you get more folks who are interested when JTL comes out. The piece of data that would be most interesting to have is what has been the attrition/growth rate in the last six months. That would tell you everything I think.
And what about the ROI on all the underused servers? How do they budget the margin on the current business by driving people out?
Lastly, the Sony brand carries value in and of itself. If you get a bad vibe from this product, it is likely that bad vibe will be carried over into other areas. The inverse is true too, that's why good brand names can help sell other products.
The bottom line is that we were promised an immersive game, set in the Star Wars universe, in a certain period of time in that universe, and I don't think we have it because of mismanagement.
Anyway, I hope more folks will take note, get involved, and take action.
Strohm
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:42 pm
#1571
Khaoz, it's not hatred, but utter frustration. And I don't have anything negative at all to say about TH. This is well beyond him. He was handed a lump of dung and told to go and unload it. He has a tough job. But we shouldn't let the management team off the hook for their extremely poor quality and execution to plan. I like this game, I want the management of the game to be changed, and if enough of us take action, maybe it will be. TH doesn't manage the game, he's an interface to those that can change the game.
Khaoz wrote:
Jeez.
I take a look at the first page of replies and see nothing but negative comments. I assume the rest of the pages are exactly as such. I wonder exactly how, if you personally ready through these Thunderheart, manage to -not- send paid assassins after a good half-dozen of them. = P
Unfourtunatly, a majority of the people in this game only dwell on the negatives; constantly complaining about things they simply can't change.
Oh, and for those who can't count, post-October is three months away, not six.
I don't feel like saying much because it will be drowned by the constant flow of hate that surrounds.
I certainly hope that this game improves. Period.
As with any MMORPG, it should improve over time. I see some things wrong with this game, but not enough for me to give up the character that I have had since day one.
Thunderheart,
I want all that you said in that statement to be true.
That is all... Like I said before I didn't feel like writing much because it would be a waste in a thread like this where there is nothing but hatred.
Attichetcuk
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:44 pm
#1572
Read what antim wrote a couple posts after yours, it makes sense. When I think of Star Wars I think of wars fought in the stars. I know thats a strange concept but maybe I'm a little off. I never imagined the star wars universe to be a bunch of swordsman or tka's running around in full composite needing doctor buffs, spice, food ect. When we have space they can fix the ground componants if you still want to play the game on the ground that is.
Strohm wrote:
I don't want to bash or argue with you, we're all in this together. But pointing out fact or even opinion is not necesarily being "negative". I'm negative about the way this product is managed and I want it changed. Seriously, I work in the tech sector as a project manager and I would be fired for any of the missed schedules, poor customer service, or continual mismanagement. Read what I say in the GCW forum "Save Our Game". This was supposed to be an immersive experience in a particular story, and a particular time. This excited me, and many others, so where is it? I want it now and I'm tired of being told "Just wait until publish x" or worse yet "when we finish with publish x, y, and z, which are a year behind, we might start a discussion about what you want". I'm not negative on the game, I'm negative on the way it is managed and I want it changed RIGHT NOW.
Attichetcuk wrote:
jalia wrote:
Atti you really are SOE's perfect customer...
I have some swampland in Florida I would like to sell you...can we meet...?
I would love to but I just got a great offer for oceanfront property in Arizona. Great price it seems.
But seriously, I'm not the perfect customer but I do refuse to feed into the negativity that so many throw out there.
ratlif
Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:47 pm
#1573
I really think it is time that Soe pushed this game back into "beta" stage.
Seriously, every aspect of the game is broken.
Seriously, every aspect of the game is broken.
- Professions
- Combat
- GCW
- Jedi
- Loot tables
Gam was pushed way to earlier. I can not even comprehend how JTL is being pushed out the door when the base core of the game itself does not work. It is broke on the ground, it will be broke in space. I for one never planned on getting JTL in the first place. I thought it would not be out until THIS game was fixed first.
Seriously TH you need to let the suits that are running this show take a look at this thread. Not just the PR team.
I am sure everyone right now is asking themselves why they are paying for a game that is broken. I am sure alot of the game review companies out there would love to get insight on what is really going on.
What happens when JTL comes out? There is going to be bugs, everyone knows that. That will be 1st priority because it will get new subscribers that don't read reviews. Cool but then what happens to the people that been here for so long, the MAIN MONEY PITS that are keeping this game afloat.
Seriously. Look when the game first came out at all the subscriptions. Now look... give it 2 months then look again. Sinking faster then a fat broad in quicksand.
You say you will be working with the community to fix things for us as if it was a way of saying sorry for the delay, we will fix these things for you.
Sorry but this is supposed to be an ongoing thing when it comes to MMORPG developments. Not something that happens when a update gets delayed as compensation.
Speaking of which, compensation? Do we get any? Do current subscribers get free copies of JTL? A free month or two? I am sure if everyone got a a free month of play for the months that the rebalance is delay, it would come out quicker then you can imagine.
I can tell you right now that alot of the "team" that is working on this game would NOT want it tobe on their resume. I for sure would not.