Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi

lund0529
Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:24 pm
#1353

Force Sensitivity Idea (assuming the thread still gets a Dev eye)


Out of the ordinary NPC/Droid/mob behavior that is there for players to advance their force-sensitivity in some way. Voices? Gives an advantage to players who pay attention to their surroundings.


"What the heck is a gnort doing all the way out here by Jabba's?"


"Is that noble following me? What did he just point at?"


"You know, I could have sworn that bartender was staring at me..."


"Why do I never get scanned in the cantinas? Did that ST just miss me?"


Lasombra
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:42 pm
#1354
I also agree that the answer lies in dynamic spawning of NPCs or events in the random vicinity of the player as they live about in the world. You then make many, different, dynamic, profession-tailored situations that are possible for the character. Now here's the kicker. You make it such that choosing to unlock your force sensitivity "locks in" your chosen profession path. Why? To prevent "easy path" or "flavor of the week" players from purposely picking up professions they would normally play or keep for the sole purpose of exploiting a path to the Force. Finally, you use an "innate bonus" approach of having different flavors of Jedi who specialize in different aspects of the force depending on their profession layout.

For example:

Let's say I am a master Ranger. One of my "random force encounters" happens one day as I'm out in the desolate wilderness sitting in one of my camps. An NPC approaches me and tells me that they are lost, unable to find the person they were traveling with. I use my trusty Ranger Tracking to lead the person to their companion, and lo and behold, that person happens to have force connections, and sees force potential in me. I am then offered the opportunity to study the force, and upon acceptance, shizzam, I'm in. At that moment, the game evaluates my current profession status, and awards me innate bonuses based on what I am currently.

So lets say that as a Master Ranger, I get awarded high bonuses to... awareness... tracking... reflex... creature knowledge... etc. My "jedi half" then starts off with those innate bonuses, and the bonuses remain even if I "untrain" my ranger points (although I do still lose my ranger-specific skills as I untrain those) Now here's the beauty of it... I can back off or retrain along the scout/ranger line all I want...but I CANNOT decide to, say, drop ranger, drop scout, then start dabbling into Swordsman. At that point my "past life profession" is locked in as scout/ranger, so trying to learn the use of polearms or heavy weapons is far too distracting from my force training. But hey, I was a Master Ranger because I *wanted* to be one, right? Not just because I thought it would be "easier" to unlock as one, right? Right... From there I progress as a Jedi just the same, but I will always have certain bonuses to skills that make me unique even amongst Jedi.

With a bit of creativity the model could really be applied to any profession. Say a master merchant who becomes a jedi gains bonuses to force persuade. Or a master droid engineer gains bonuses to attacking or using force powers on droids. Give master Carboneers bonuses to reflex/counterattack abilities, so on and so forth. Basically, let who a person decides to be dictate what flavor of jedi they become.

Main points:
+ Making the events profession-tailored prevents the "hologrind" of people chasing random professions they wouldn't normally choose to play.
+ Make random encounters that happen for the character as they interact with the world in their own profession-driven ways. Make the NPCs or events such that they only respond to the person they spawn for to prevent "force hijacking" should the event occur with other PCs around.
+ Assess the player's current profession(s) and assign bonuses to relevant skills at the time of force acceptance. Make it such that after force acceptance, one can only train or untrain along the profession line they already accomplished.
+ If you are not happy with your current profession choice when your force event occurs, simply reply "I am not ready to follow this path" and reset the random timer, bearing in mind that if you change professions, you change the way you are approached in the future. This forces people to CARE what their chatacter is before becoming force sensitive.
+ Award profession -> jedi bonuses dynamically (similar to how professions currently work). A Master Swordsman would get more of a jedi bonus to swordplay than one who accepts force sensitivity at Novice Swordsman. Players who dabble in many professions would obtain a few different types of trait bonuses, but at low totals, while "elite" profession players enjoy larger bonuses to specific traits.



Fatal Exception
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Jediforcefighter
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:12 pm
#1355
Just to add a few things. Jedi should be able to decrease their visibility slowly through meditation. This special meditation should look similar to the meditation of a Teras Kasi Artist so that it wont seem to obvious what the jedi is doing or if s/he is even a jedi. This should make it tougher for Bounty Hunters to find jedi since BH get paid well for the death of a jedi. And BH of the same faction should not be givenBH missions to kill that member of the same faction nor target them if their jedi skills are revealed. If jedi are in a group, their visibility level would not increase when using there skills amongst the group members nor would they get visibilty for fighting NPC out of the range of non-grouped players. These changes should make both BH and jedi work harder to complish their tasks. It should also make it to where choosing a side, whether it be dark or light, would actually give yousome advantage.



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gmwarrior
Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:59 am
#1356
The very bases of being a Jedi or Sith is that the character becomes extraordinary. The idea of quests to allow those who want to take on the path of a Jedi or Sith should not be cheap. "oh I might try it...oopps too hard I will go back to my other prof. Maybe try again later" This would make it an empty goal.


The quests should be determiuned by the path the user wants to pursue, and one should not be able to go from Sith to Jedi or back again. No dabbling in Light and Dark, they must pick one and stck to it. And as much as I want to be a Jedi it should take longer than a week or maybe even longer than a Month. Quests need to be more than go blow this up and then this. Within each quest perhaps some crafting, and not just sabres or weapons, perhaps even some tasks to aid the people of a planet ( unless they are Sith and then perhaps the opposite).


Perhaps an Idea would be to go, depending on path chosen, to a teacher of the Force---and Luke is not yet a teacher so it might have to be a different person for the Jedi, where the Sith can go to Vader. This would be the first quest for them, to find thier teacher. Once found tasks to prove they actually want to pursue the path would be needed, save this person, help with this, deliver this, (anything would work as long as the tasks are purposeful). After a cetain number or Xp for these tasks is acheived, then the user is alloted certain FS qualities, but not abilities. Then they must continue the path and the tasks and missions become more indepth, not just go blow this up, but a series of tasks to complete a mission. With each mission more FS XP is gained, until they reach a certain amount. Then they unlock their FS character.


The whole premise of making it difficult to acquire a FS character is that the Jedi/Sith are rare. To obtain this position the user must put more than just week into it. They should have to sacrfice something to make the Jedi a more then fleeting after thought. User shouldn't think 'I am bored....I think I will try the Jedi thing'. It should be a bit more than that
WessssCheng
Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:39 pm
#1357
The idea of having just several quest in becoming a Jedi is lets say too easy, I mean everyone can do a quest, and if the quest is practically impossible to complete by oneself, what is the point of having the quest of becoming a jedi. I mean if the quests are too easy everyone will become a jedi, and even though there is a cap to the amount of jedi's in a server I think its unfair to the ppl that couldn't finish the quest in time. I mean right now there is no such thing as a jedi cap, and the hologrind is crazy and will take the user at least a few months. Compared to a quest it would take 1 day? 2? 3? Thats not right. I say we should keep the hologrind, because being a jedi shouldn't take fast to get, and plus there is no way of balancing out the quest, if its too easy WAH LA hundreds and hundreds of jedi. Too hard, none...Too many jedi? Game gets boring...Jedi cap? Unfair to the ppl that are busy and can't play this game 24/7 like the other ppl that do.




Thunderbyte
Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:57 pm
#1358




WessssCheng wrote:

The idea of having just several quest in becoming a Jedi is lets say too easy, I mean everyone can do a quest, and if the quest is practically impossible to complete by oneself, what is the point of having the quest of becoming a jedi. I mean if the quests are too easy everyone will become a jedi, and even though there is a cap to the amount of jedi's in a server I think its unfair to the ppl that couldn't finish the quest in time. I mean right now there is no such thing as a jedi cap, and the hologrind is crazy and will take the user at least a few months. Compared to a quest it would take 1 day? 2? 3? Thats not right. I say we should keep the hologrind, because being a jedi shouldn't take fast to get, and plus there is no way of balancing out the quest, if its too easy WAH LA hundreds and hundreds of jedi. Too hard, none...Too many jedi? Game gets boring...Jedi cap? Unfair to the ppl that are busy and can't play this game 24/7 like the other ppl that do.





I disagree. It's not that hologrinding is too hard/easy/time consuming, etc. The path to becoming a jedi in star wars varies from character to character. Luke Skywalker probably only had one or two professions in his life before his abilities in the force were present. Anakin Skywalker was the same. Mastering professions to become a jedi is just silly and inconsistant with the stories/movies. I think that quests are very appropriate for becoming a jedi.


I'd also like to propose that a Jedi/Healer class be added to the list of classes. In the stories there were jedi who focused on telekenisis and fighting, and the Corellian Jedi who could absorbe lots of energy damage and focus that energy back onto thier enemy and also possessed incredable mind control potential. There were healer Jedi who could heal poisons and diseases, allow wounds to heal very quickly, and search and heal another's mind. Perhaps these jedi could give a natural buff that's somehow different to Doctors buffs, like buffs all 9 stats but for less time/less strength than a doctor. These jedi could even increase your fighting stats, or defense stats.


That's my 2 cents





         /                   \            
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      ///                     \\\           Really BadJack - Shipwright/Swordsman
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 /|O|\       ///---+---\\\       /|O|\      Nabushin - Pistoleer/Commando
|-^-||------///  \ | /  \\\------||-^-|     Olaw - Artisan/Shipwright
|_O_||>====<|||___\|/___|||>====<||_O_|
| O ||>====<|||   /|\   |||>====<|| O |
|-v-||------\\\  / | \  ///------||-v-|
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psycocat
Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:37 am
#1359
[qoute]I mean right now there is no such thing as a jedi cap, and the hologrind is crazy and will take the user at least a few months.[/qoute]


I know of several people that grind out a profession in a day. not months. one day. within a 24 hour period. If everyone did what they did to get a jedi there would be no other characters.



Shala-renn Xibotepotl. MCH/MFencer/Dancer. Bria.
Zigie. Musician. Ahazi.
Yhissh. (Slave Trader) Businessman/BH/Rifle. Bria. [Alt]

"Time for our own benchmark. The entertainment we offer."
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Gojira7050
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:11 pm
#1360

I'm sure another post has already covered this, but i wanted to stress the importance of balance in this new path to becoming a jedi.I think quests are a great alternative to mastering professions, but it may make things too easy. An experienced group of players could help a friend get through their quests in no time. On the other hand, making the quests too hard will discourage people from becoming jedi at all. Examples of this would be solo quests that are far too difficult for one player, anunreasonable number of quests or no information at all on which quests to take. This is simply food for thought, for developers and players alike.
Akaei
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:46 pm
#1361
anything that requires teamwork would be unacceptable. assistance should not even be an option.
HythosSWG
Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:33 am
#1362
HythosSWG
Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:35 am
#1363

Don't know how that happend... Anyway - here it is again:


A unique twist to Force Sensativity would be to providethose un-trained in the Force with innate abilities (wild talent)- Progressing through from what ever the new "initiate" (base) becomes...



  1. Character unlocks (by current definition of obtaining the FSCS, unless changed)
  2. Charactercreated withminimal force-abilities. For example - the character receives a speical ability to will things towards them, ect. Randomly, rather than having set-skilltrees (Jedi character learns x skill at y skill-box / tree) - they would up until receiving training,acquire the pre-requisite (for the training) abilities such as "sensing", (lesser dodge as if they "felt" something coming at them,or as ifknowing they were hungry- they *just* know),- any type of skills could be thrown in while remaining more or less insignificant by comparisson to AFTER the initial training.
  3. Character locates a trainer. Someone would need to have a reason to believethe Force is with them, oppose to just "knowing" it is (not contradictory to the previous point - because a person might not ever know the difference - like a dog doesn't know a human isn't like them). Once reaching a certainpoint ofForce Sensativity, the character could then be compelled to search fora "trainer" by will of the Force.

Furthermore, as for experience gained, a bonus should be provided for Jedi / FS-characters whom group with one another (kinda like Squad-leader experience, but shared amoungst the group) - this would represent the interaction of the Force affecting those around them. I don't recall the story, but this was sortahow Han Solo learnt of the Force within himself.

TyrblGahal
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:06 am
#1364
Hello,


My name is Woo'soo, Jedi extrodinaire! I have never really wrote anything productive or more than a sentence. So please keep my intro in mind if your looking for spelling mistakes, you will find them.


The Jedi Chronicles: (Items obtained- Force Skills , Jedi Cloak, Jedi Saber components)


Quest 1: (Upon Unlocking) On the character FSCS Character Creation screen or the new user planet selection area you should be presened with some options there to start in remote locations with nothing in the napsack, to only be presented witha a NPC who will then lead you to your Padawan or Master NPC Jedi Trainer.

Upon arrival to your trainer, you will get a nice story how your someway tied to the force and stronger than the rest yadda yadda ya! You will then be asked if you want to follow this path filled with guts and glory or evil & hatred this is your given choice to either take the Force or not!


Now that you have chosen to start the path, this is where the fun begins. Do not give a saber out here or any items that will create one. This is the reason for the starter missions (where you are FORCE SENSITIVE AS A TITLE at this point.)


The first force power you should be given is Force Pull or Force Lift (you get the idea.)

This Quest will have multiple parts. The quest will lead you to a old Anchient Jedi Cave that was sealed off long ago. You will need to use your Force Lift/pull to move the huge boulder that blocks the entrance. (Make it so that this is not possible as you should have to go out and move little objects to build up your force move in order to enter this cave.)


In the cave you will do a serious of quest,[ leaving that to the creative thinkers ]. On the quest you will obtain a jedi Robe, Saber components, and a couple minor force moves.


Now you will be directed to another trainer where you can train to be an Initiate. This is where you learn the art of crafting your saber in a short serious of quest. Make them search for some certain materials and components to go along with the few they got on prior missions to create this weapon. Make it fun to build a light saber as well as long and drawn out as the above quest.


(also in this quest make us able to say what we want to say to the NPC's which will check for certain keywords which will trigger different events to happen making this non-linear.) Oh...something I thought of last minute, make some of these quest where it takes us into a game like window which we are presented with a interactive puzzle to complete which could take hours to complete to move ahead. (Like Myst type games)


This is all I care to write for now as im still thinking of ideas but this is a starter. Pick this apart and lets get it right guys!




.:[ALARIA] Woo'Soo:.
.: A New Hope for the Rebellion :..: Knight of the Republic :.
.: Alaria Stronghold, Naboo Theed :.
urah
Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:58 pm
#1365


Excellent post and ideas, Tony!!!



Now, to address questions about the time period etc. I draw your attention to: http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=In%20Development


In summary:


The system as it currently exists will be completely swept away (with the old republic?).


Basic force sensitivitywill be open to all players to create a sense of the force


If players wish to pursue it, they can develop their force sensitivity in minor ways without sacrificing their original character


Players can follow a PvE path of Jedi development from Padawan through Jedi Knight.


Jedi Knight's can split off to light and dark Jedi paths where forced Jedi PvP will gain you force ranking...possibly a seat on underground Light and Dark Jedi Councils.



Some additional things that come to mind for me are:


1) PC Character - You should not have to modify your character to acquire necessary skills...in fact


I wouldlove to see my primary character become my jedi !!! (Luke didn't create a new character "JediLuke")
- add jedi skills (skill points should not refence a jedi's status)to existing skills (reataining my charadcter as a jedi would be much more meaningful)
- To deal with death, possibly reduce skill loss on death to annoying like 50K xp or so - approximately half hours worth of regaining xp
- Yoda says "you must unlearn what you have learned"
Fair enough...allow players to surrender current skills for quicker force attunement...and allow them to keep their skills for slower force attunement


2) Combat - I agree with tonymitsu: Jedi are warriors. Combat skills will be required in some form even if fornon-combat classesit is basic saber use. Jedi must fight. Otherwise they have NO purpose. But jedi do not fight 24/7, other aspects such as diplomacy and assist missions should be included.


3) Trainer - A NPC trainer idea is good. One person suggested "Your trainer is your mentor and you should be required to rely on him a huge amount" I had the idea along with others of having a PC jedi master and be the apprentice. Think Obi and Qui...fighting together!


4) Training - During jedi training like quests for lightsaber parts use instanced dungeons please !!!
- Saber building quest is an excellent idea
- lean to light or dark during this time, submit a final warning before finalizing the light/dark path
- "blue glowies" to advise/admonish concerning actions (not for every quest)


5) Going alone- the path to becoming a jedi is a lonely one. When will jedi be able to guild if at all...at the light/dark side stage?


6) FSCS - prerequsites should be in place like: (why? so schmucks don't exploit the system)
-2 months of playing
- mastering 3-4 different professions at least2 elite
- possibly guild membership
- definatley combat of some sort
- set # of badges if not all of them


7) REWARD THE HOLOGRINDERS - heck start them out as Jedi Knight if they've mastered 10 or more and Jedi Master for 20 or more
I feel for you guys...


8) Fun - I know this isn't KOTOR but please make this fun and interactive but very challenging, very extensive, and very rewarding
- power gamers will be the first to attain, casual gamers will get it eventually by plugging away (I have a job too)


9) Jedi and armor? - if Jedi are so powerful why wear armor? Can you dizzy and KD a jedi? Maybe pre-padawn stage, but there should be a point where the only thing that can stand against a jedi is another jedi or a friggin huge group of people...and that's with an unarmored jedi in the movies.


10) Use the force, Luke - as one forum pointed out there are force powers not being utilized at all... like mindtrick, shield (reference KOTOR for others)
- /mindtrick SOEdev "incorporate mind trick then forget this happened"
- no need to go overboard, but some non-combat and/or defensive force should be available (like blind and force push the MBH then walk away)
That is the potential power and character of a light jediknight. *I could slice you in half, but I'm going to spare you this time*


11) Hmm - crazy ideas from the forum (that I really like)
- showings by Vader possibly the Emperor, Darth Bannon, Darth Maul even (RPed by SOE staff) in attempts to snuff out light jedi
- random jedi masters light and dark who can speed up the jedi process a tad with special additional content/quests (RPed by SOE staff)


This was a fun post. Hope you enjoy the read.


usmc
MasterFencer/MasterBrawler/TKA


We do not wish for confrontation but if it comes, we must be ready.




-Dave
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