Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi

tim1756
Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:43 pm
#1314


Correct me ifI'm wrong but I thought the game was set between Episodes IV and V not III and IV. The first Deathstar should have already been destroyed. That happened in Episode IV. I don't like the idea of advancing forward in time to explain the number of Jedi. The Devs have said from the beginning that there would be few Jedi and it would very difficult for those that did become one. While I'd love to play a Jedi I think there are already too many in the game. From what I understand they outnumber Rangers on some servers. This is not right. I should be able to count the number of Jedi per server on one hand. The ones that do exist should need to stay in hiding for fear of being killed. If everyone wants to play a Jedi or Dark Jedi then go play Knights of the Old Republic. It's set when then were both many Jedi and many Sith. This is Galaxies. Set after Episode IV. The Emperor and Vader have killed most of the Jedi. According to the movies Yoda should be the only one left. I think if you use the EU then you can add a few more to that. I think if you are going to continue with these Paths to Jedi thats fine. But put a cap on the total number of Jedi per server and reinstitute permadeath. That way once a Jedi permanently dies someone else's FSCS will open. The cap should be like 5-10 per server. No more. People will cry because they will lose their Jedi when permadeath kicks in but guess what. Being a Jedi should be next to impossible at this time. Deal with it.
Kenbow2
Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:34 pm
#1315

You are correct, and I may stand corrected about when SWG timeframe is based. Being the case, and goingwith SWGbeing between IV (A New Hope) and V (Empire Strikes Back), that just makes my idea even more possible because its closer toward the end. Episode IV, V, and VI are all around the same time frame and not alot of time has passed between all those movies. So, moving SWG to right after Episode VI is even more feasible.


Yes, I know that the developers originally designed SWG to be rare with Jedi. This, however, is not the case. As you said yourself, there are reportedly more Jedi then Rangers on some servers. And, what I dont particularly like is developers force feeding a certain path the servers are going in when this should be based soley on what the players do. Artificial caps, adding more professions, or completely changing the jedi unlocking system is not fair to the paying players.


I think we have to all agree on a basic fact... The large majority of players are going to do whatever they have to do to become Jedi. And they will grind in what ever ways possible to obtain what to them isa main goalin the game.


So thequestion then becomes, 1) Do you artificially cap the Jedi, or

#2) Go with where the players are taking the MMORPG SWG game on each server.

A true MMORPG would follow #2.


On the other hand, I do agree that no matter what time era you set the game in, you shouldn't have dozens of Jedi's running around on the game at any one given time. I have posted the following ideas in the past on this issue, but I'll restate them again here for the readers' convienence.


1) Add aclone time limit to a Jedi's Death before he can re-clone. For example, a Jedi dies by a creature or a BH, and that character must wait 10 days to play that Jedi again. In the meantime he can play his original character.


2) The quest based system is good to travel up the profession tree (assuming you can unlock a 2nd character, and not use your original) and the main part of these questsshould beInstanced missions, like the corvette, meaning that noone else, other than your limited group (if allowed in quest),is there in the "dungeon" with you. Hence, you take Jedi out the public eye for alot of the time.


3) Only allow a certain number of Jedi to log on a server at any given time. If there are too many logged on at a time, then use youroriginal character in the meantime.


4) For Quest missions, a Jedi can only do one quest every week. So after the first quest is completed, a downtime of one week "of meditation" you can call it, before the Jedi goes on another quest.


5) Impliment one of the 2 Test Servers to have FS slots for everyone. Afterall, its just a test center. This would allow alot of people to instantly create a Jedi on that test server, which serves two very important functions:

1) Allows everyone to play around with a Jedi for a bit, try it out, and get "having a Jedi" out of their system.

2) This is a great way to find any bugs or exploits in the Jedi profession or quests, which is the test servers may purpose anyhow.



- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
Kenbow2
Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:11 pm
#1316

The problem with server Jedi caps and permadeath is that players who unlock would guard and hide their Jedi characters so carefully, they would only stay out in the middle of nowhere killing the easiest of creatures to ensure they never died. There would be no roleplaying by the Jedi characters whatsoever, and then noone else would be able to get their Jedi made because of the cap.


The big problem with permadeath is that noone was roleplaying their Jedi at all. The developers stated that they envisioned Jedi becoming strong and leading large raids, or something of that sort.



- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
Kenbow2
Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:11 pm
#1317

There is nothing in the "In Development" Forum about how completed holo professions will be figured into the new Jedi Questsystem. Please inform us on that.



- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
fatgit
Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:55 am
#1318

I haven't posted on this forum yet, so I shall now.

IF jedi are to be the main character, you cannot just add Force Sensitivity to someone thats Master TKA/Master Pistoleer/Master Smuggler for example, it would be impossible to ever attack one, or kill due to Feign death - now Im not saying this scenario is what is planned, but who knows.

Another method I can see, if you dont get a 2nd char on the server, is to make it so you become a Hybrid, where Jedi costs skillpoints, but again, you would get people taking partial Force lines, and keeping Feign Death, or TKA etc - definitely not whats wanted.

The last option is that you get a choice - your main keeps all it's current skills OR chooses to follow the path, and leaves all skills behind. This would work, but also really annoy people.

If it was one of those options, I'd personally choose the latter. However, what about people that have non-combat based races as Mains ? The point of the Jedi Slot means that you can choose a combat based race on that slot when it opens.

Now, the next issue, is that of current Jedi, what will happen here ?
I don't think any of us would accept a merging of our chars, or removal of one, so I'm not sure what will happen here.


Next, the role of the Jedi.
Currently, Jedi cannot fight near anyone else. If they do, they get on the BH terminals, and all but the highest Jedi cannot handle that level of PvP.
In the Star Wars universe, Jedi fight alongside others, they help others, they fight with each other. In SWG any of these actions triggers a BH mission on you, rewardig you with 20-30 BH's appearing next to you within minutes :/
Allowing Jedi to group, fight with or near, help, members of his/her own faction should not increase visibility.
This allows Jedi to fulfil their real role in the galaxy

PvP
Jedi cannot enter into PvP effectively, as above, it will get you on the terminals - plus multiple deaths = skill loss.
An integral part of SWG PvP is multiple deaths. People often die 5+ times in a battle, which removes a Jedi from PvP for a week.
I would suggest no skill loss from PvP related deaths.


Pearls and Crystals

We all know that the current system is not viable.
In order to finance a Jedi currently, you have to turn your main into a Krayt Killer, or an Armoursmith.
Pearls go for 10+million each, totally out of the reach of 99% of players.

Crystals are now rarer than Pearls.

What I suggest is a mission system for Pearls and Krystals. Make these non-tradeable to stop people twinking other Jedi/selling them.
At normal mission terminals, you could add another option to Destroy and Deliver - Jedi.
These missions would only pay enough cash to cover travel costs at most, but would payout "points". You could then save these points up to buy crystals or pearls, with better stat ones costing more points.
This would allow jedi to get the pearls and crystals tehy need, but without millions of credits entering the economy, and would mean a Jedi has to work to get them.

You could also have quests that give these points as rewards.
KahpnarBalsys
Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:47 am
#1319

I just wanna say a few words on these things called "Jedi".



Yes i'am a roleplayer, yes there should be jedi. But there shouldnt be this many. For example I was driving across Dantooine one day, I ran into 4 Jedi players within a 30minute timeframe. Either that is luck or that means theres alot around. Jezz I was in Corellia saw Two Jedi there, showing off their titles.



Of course you will will whine about why we should or shouldn't have. Just remember SOE is here to make money. In the early stages of the game SWG got really REALLY bad reviews each review i read said Oh what do you mean I can't be a jedi. So maybe SOE looked at those reviews and said thats it we need to give them a hint on how to become a jedi hence the hints they gave us about holocrons. Then numbers around Christmas time began to fall again Ohh so lets give people a Free holocron and some people can even have TWO per char.



Its all about the $$$$$$$$



But I think this holocron system needs to go, I ask too many peope can i buy some of your wares, Answer is No sorry only grinding this for Jedi. I think it may be finnally taking its toll on the economy. I can tell you the Flurry Economy is kinda down the drain.





With Regards,

The Late Colonel Kahpnar Balsys
Died in a horrific crash
baskotoya
Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:13 am
#1320

just wnt to note that... WHY DO ALL THE JEDI WERE COMPSITE ARMOUR! yhey are allreaddy uber enoufgh! plz do something about this! in the movies, did you ever see obi waring a full set of armour?! i doant think so! it just ruins the whole feeling of SW!
AltharXXX
Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:45 am
#1321

Jedi in armor? Watch the cartoon "Clone Wars".


Hey - did everyone read the MOTD special anouncement? I think all the questions are answered in PLAN 9 FROM OUTERSPACE!


Cool eh? I like the answer to jedi & main. Looks promising.



Althar Maru, Flurry Janta Assassin
status: retired

Would you care to test out a 400 year old sword to see if it's decayed to condition 0? All the prior testers have no comment. Perhaps a gun which was used in WW I and still fires with high accuracy upto 1km?

If that doesn't get you, then start reading current military specifications for combat equipment.
LortRekkab
Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:31 am
#1322

58 pages, u people are nuts lol. Im at work and cant read all of it without some trouble with my boss. Does anybody know if theres a summary or anything a bit shorter that says most of this? Th ething I want to know is how my search for silent will be rewarded, if at all. Do I keep going (only at prof 8 so little chance of unlock before revamp) or do I give up?



LORT REKKAB
MY SIG IS BLUE and outdated
Daniel Rekkab - Weaponsmith - Katana-server
Keltorr
Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:48 am
#1323

I have doubts about the idea of Jedi gaining additional powers through forced PvP. Skill advancement should not depend on the availability of enemy players, and there shouldn't be this "ranking" system I sense behind the In Development report's words about light and dark Councils. Do we really want to encourage these annoying 1337 players to brag more? Besides, Dark Jedi don't even work together...the old Sith helped the Jedi extinguish them...



I have a bad feeling about this nerf


The few...the proud...the Marine-armored

Cafa
Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:11 am
#1324


I like the potential idea of a quest system.


What I don't like is that you are, again, trying to make something better in this game by taking away from people's time, effort and dedication to your own product. That is ludicrous.


Classic example. My character, Fivo, is a Master Artisan/Master Architect/Master Merchant. I am considering taking merchant down to just the management tree necessary (as unlike the rest of the population I respect merchant and want to play by the rules) to grind him into another elite crafter off the Artisan branch after going through a FS grind which is about to start. At that point I will have invested over 8 months into him, the business and the noteriety necessary to attract that business on an on-going basis. Not to mention he is the general commerce guru for his guild. Now you are telling me if I was to grind and/or quest for a jedi I literally have to get rid of everything, just throw it away. Many top crafters take time off to grind and I was about to do that at the end of next week's factory runs. But you, as game developers, are now telling me I have to throw away everything I've done and earned and start over with a new character to fill the role as potential Fivo-Jedi goes down the path. Obviously, Jedi can take a flying leap if I have to throw away 8 months of work based on your decision.


What is wrong with the current system is the DAMN GRIND. What is right is that opening the FS slot gives you a new character that IS A JEDI. Jedi's are BORN. They are not made. This is the continuity of the entire Star Wars Universe.


At what point do you just shoot yourself in the foot too many times and we all leave so you, the power kiddies and the ghost cities that will be all that's left can just change the continuity of Star Wars and this game everyday? Can you guys honestly think a consumer base of 12-14 year olds will sustain this product? It wasn't bad enough that you continue to nerf things over and over instead of being adults that have an bit of insight into human nature (especially on a professional basis). You hire a kid (albiet a dedicated kid who I do like) to be your PR point and throw him to the wolves. You continue to have massive hiring problems behind the sceens with your CSR community which are nigh useless outside normal business hours, when people actually play the game, and now you want to erase the work and dedication of your fan-base in order to play the higher-level endgame. Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to note that the reason SWG is holding on is the people in the game that have developed a community and a genre around the the game itself. When are those people going to matter as we sure don't see it from you on this most overwhleming issue.





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

rendarsmith
Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:19 am
#1325

That was well said.



I don't know why this has to be changed. I personally like the system the way it is. It's kind of fun to explore the other professions. It's not like you have to keep them.





-rendarsmith
JediRougeJames
Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:31 pm
#1326




Of the posts that I've read, which is to say not all of them but some, I see the glimerings of great ideas. But then again no one cares if I think they are great ideas or not. The big debate is (and was, even before the game launched) was how accessable becoming a Jedi would be. Im sure, if it were up to a few people, then everyone would be Jedi. Unfortunatly continuity stops this from happening and the devs are forced to adhere to the big important fact:


Jedi are inherentlyfew in numbers.


"We are Jedi, not warriors," Mace Windu once said. He also said that if a war were to break out the Jedi would be to few to provide an army. Becoming a Jedi should be a rare occurance, especially after the Purge. That being said, becoming a Jedi should not be impossible, difficult- yes. But not impossible.


Now that the basic concept is hopefully understood the big question is HOW? How can we fairly allow some people, who has paid just as much for the game as anyone else, not to become Jedi and others to become Jedi. Truly the only plausible answer is you can't. Most people want to becomea Jedi and short of creating a whole new MMO that allows everyone to be a Jedi it would be very hard to equalize the high demand for Jedi and the VERY low supply.


With the new revamp, the supply is going to be increased ten-fold. No doubt in that. The main deterrant to becoming a Jedi, at least for me, was the time I would have to sacrifice to master 5 proffessions. Now that deterrant is about to dissapearand I almost feel obliged to set on the road of the Jedi. This will be the case for many people. The devs when creating the "Proffession Grind" Jedi system found a compromise, a very good compromise. It allowed people the opportunity if they were willing to put the work in. Now, because of the outcry against it, the devs have been very kind to try and come up with a new compromise.


Let there be no doubt the new compromise will take time to accomplish. Now to my idea of how to create a new compromise.


I beleive the devs should follow the tested, andsuccesfull,format of previous Star Wars games such as KOTR and Jedi Academy (except for the Jedi Academy). All these games started out with the main character unbenownst to his special abilities. But through his actions he becomes more and more aware of his ablities. KOTR has a great system that could well fit into Galaxies:


Have the current NPC missions be assigned a new type of faction, this being at first Force Sensitivity and later Light or Dark. When you complete the mission given to you, you gain a small amount of Force Sensitivity. Also if the mission is a mean mission (coldhearted assasination) or a heroic one (saving someone from an assasination) you gain points to the Light or Dark side. The NPC's that give out these missions should be different from person to person, or change every day. The NPC's stay the same and in the same place, but one day they give FS effected missions and the other day they don't; but some other NPC does.


This idea is pretty monumental, and ive no idea how hard it would be to code or anything like that. But the basics are already there. You've got hundreds (if not thousands) of NPC's standing around. You've got a faction system that records when you kill a person of a certain faction (though the FS would be secret, unless you reach a mile stone). Also if there are too many FS people out there then the devs could just up the requirement in FS faction. This enables the devs to 'play it by ear' and allow for a more specific take on continuity.


I've probably for got some things that I should've said. Maybe I'll get flamed, who knows? I just hope the devs have a chance to read this. If i think of anything else ill be sure to post it here=)
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