Carbineer Archive

Anyone else sick of hearing the whiners going for the dev's favorite child, bounty hunter? Every time we complain about how a single branch of bounty hunter makes one more proficient in our weapon than mastering an entire skill tree in ours does, when we're supposed to be the carbine masters, someone pops up to whine "but bounty hunter is so much harder to get than carbineer, we deserve more stuff." Well, folks. this arguement is false, and here's why:

Master Carbineer requires 92 skill points to reach.

Carbine 4 in the BH skill tree requires 174 skill points to reach.

Okay, so be it, BH doesn't let you branch out as much.

But look at what it actually takes to get to get to Carbine 4 in BH compared to what it takes to get to Master Carbineer.

BH requires a total of 70,550 combat experience.

Master Carbineer requires a total of 415,000 combat experience.

BH requires a total of 1,473,000 specific weapon experience

Master Carbineer requires a total of 3,766,000 specific weapon experience

Sure, BH also requires all that scouting experience, but;

1. Scouting experience is easy enough to grind harvesting off of all those creatures you're killing for combat xp.

2. Survival experience has about as much claim to fame as entertainer xp as it can be easily afk'd.

and

3. Trapping experience is easily ground by throwing a long series of traps at a realatively weak creature, since traps are never leathal, making the most time-consuming part of this branch actually crafting the traps. This trick saved me hours of "trap, trap, kill" grinding.

So, aside from having fewer skillpoints left over with which to expand skills with, remind me exactly how it's harder to become a BH carbineer than a master Carbineer?

The only thing that's hard about Bounty Hunters are the lightning cannon and investigation exp. I am practically a master marksman (pistol 4 carbine 4 support 4 rifle 1)just from trying out different guns to see what I like, and I mastered Scout withoutnoticing.

This is a skill based game, not classed based, it is intended that you train in multiple areas to make your character more efficient. Professions vs Profession comparisions are stupid and irrelevant to the game, as no profession is meant to be used alone. They are all designed to be used in conjunction with all of your remaining skill points.

The idea of "class envy"is carry over from class based games, and people need to realize that.

Anyone who takes BH carbine + other skills, will be much worse off than a person who goes Master Carbineer + other skills. Carbineers have better specials, better defense, and access to a unique carbine.

Stop thinking in terms of one profession, being master carbineer is less than half of your characters skill points, you can't compare something designed to be 40% of a final build to something that is 70% of a final build.

The most ironic part of all these class envy posts, is that the most powerful characters are the ones who are well rounded and not specialized because of the diminishing returns as you approach caps in this game.

BH alone, appears the best because it is the simplest, any good build with a Master Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman augmented with other skills is way better than a BH can ever be.

As a master Carbineer I intend to put this theory to the test... in a way. I'm currently working on becoming a novice bounty hunter, and after I get that intend to go up the carbine tree in BH, while keeping my master carbineer rank. It's going to be interesting how my skill will change as I go up it, but I'm also very interested in the special moves of a BH vs. a Carbineer. I'll keep ya'll posted

-Kinslon

I have Bounty Hunter Carbine IV and am a Master Carbineer, I think the point cost on the 4 boxes of Carbine that BH gives me may really not be worth it, with the changes comming to knockdown the BH Carbine line has no specials in it worth a D*mn. I am very Seriously consdiring rebating BH. If I do look at all I could gains still being Master Carbineer. I could AddMedic 3 lines to lvl 4 (Healing great nowwith the PvP reduction) and I can add CH very easily 3 lines to lvl 4 gives me pets to tank. I am really not sure with the changes comming that theBH points are worth it.

The advantage to the BH/carbineer combo is speed pure raw speed. If you raise the 4 boxes of BH carbine and the 4 boxes of assult in carbineer, you will be over +100 speed...+105 if I remember correctly. Since that is equivilent to105% faster reload, you are talking about INSANE firing speeds...like garden hose fast. You will be taking 4-4.5 second carbines down to the 1 second cap. That gives you the luxury of taking damage slices only and doing insane damage insanely fast.

I am not sure the Devs can lets speeds go above +50 as after that, it increases exponentially.

Before this game,I played Earth and Beyond and they had the exact same system there. It was allowing players to do insane damage and eventually they had to adjust it so that the max reload you could get was 50% such that in the SWG system, +100 would be a 50% reduction in reload.

yes the devs agree thats why they are increasing the power of al bh moves, Deal with it, it's not going to change, they all so only get 3 moves with a carbine no def bonus's No firing while moving bonus.

you can be a master carbiner and still get all of the BH carbine tree + have some left over. stop the whining. I agree our bonuses suck, but for the love of god must every one point fingers and ask for a nerf?

I supose I should have read the entier thread before replying, as that is already stated, as well as further information.

The bottom line is, thier is no comparision between to two. Carbiner has some suck @$$ skills sets. So does BH (after underhand shot what do they get for carbines worth a dam?). Carbiners get the decent specials, they get the bonuses. except for underhand shot, which is needed to be a BH (and soon to be nerfed to hell as well)

Actually, I wasn't the one who missed the point. The only one who seemed to get at what I was saying (who disagreed with me, anyway)was HewerofWood. Did I ever say anything about carbine 4 in BH being better than a master Carbineer? No, especially not after the knockdown nerf, as Nathan_Brazil pointed out. What I said was that the arguement that Bounty Hunter "should" be more powerful because it's harder to get is wrong because it's not harder to get to BH Carbine 4 than master carbineer.

Now, if you want to disagree with me thenI have no problem with that as long as it's done respectfully (no problem there, so far), but at least do me the courtesy of disagreeing with the point I actually made.

+10 to speed takes off .1 speed.

So if you hae 105 to speed. that means you get about just over 1 second to cut off your weapons.

Ok Ok, BH isint harder to get, but it dosent allow you to branch out as much as only mastering carbineer.

This is a skill based game, not a class one.

It aint Diablo 2 or Earth And Beyond or DAOC or EQ

Master BH is5 times harder to achieve than Master Carbineer (5k of Investigation xp = 50 hours of play time. We need 18k for the last box alone...)

Comparing this to the 1on1 PvP strength - MBH vs. Master Carbineer -I conclude:

Carbineers need to benerfed !