Carbineer Archive
Thread: Ranged combat professions
I plan to be a creature handler, but also want to be one of either elite carbineer, pistoleer, or rifleman. Can someone tell me what the real differences are, benefits and negatives of each, and which you would think would better compliment a creature handler?
Pistol - Special moves focus on depleting health
Carbine - Special moves focus on depleting action
Rifle - Special moves focus on depleting mind
I believe this is the general rule.
From what I've heard, and had some experience with, the difference between the 3 types of guns is range
Rifles- long range
Carbines- Mid range
Pistols -Short Range
I really think it's a matter of personal preference and how you want to play out your character. I don't think any will be necessarily "better" than the other to go with Creature Handling.
What I do is start off with my rifle for long range, switch to a pistol when they get close to finish them off. I found if I have my rifle while they are within melee range, I take A LOT more damage than if i'm using my pistol.
Yes as weapons pistols are short range health damage, carbine mid range action damage, and rifle long range health damage.
However, when you actually start specialising in the advance professions there is much more to them. For instance, rifle is a stealth based sniper type profession while carbine focus's on defensive based skill. Look at the actual skills.
Is it just me, or does the distribution of special shots penalize diversity in a groups weaponry? If rifles have special shots to force mind damage, carbines to force action damage, and pistols to force health damage, it seems (to this new player, at least)like they're forcing you to group only with people who use the same weapon type as you do, otherwise you'll all be damaging different pools.
Was this intentional? Is there some rationale for not spreading them out a little more, or including basic moves for mind, action, and health in the ranged support skill branch? Or is this just a side effect of an attempt at giving the weapons some character, that wasn't thought through fully?
Can any former beta hands give some insight into the Dev rationale here?
Its apparently by design, and yes, very stupid.
For maximum efficiency, groups should be as un-diverse as possible.
Its poorly implemented design to be sure.
- Vol
However with the latest change s in XP relating to your damage, I doubt groups will be as fun as they were in Beta. People will tend to do the max-dmg shots, as opposed to disabling shots or targeting the health pool.
The problem with caribne i had was my own action pool drain with specials. fullauto2 used to take about 100 of my action. It is very tempting, as i used to be able to do 800 dmg per shot on the average, but i did get incapped a couple of times just for chain-firing those shots.
At this time, most groups target Health pool simply because Pistols are way overpowered, so everyone's a Pistoleer, so everyone damages Health...
If there was some balance to damage-output, this would not necessarily be so.
Yes, groups are what someone put very well. They're "contests." It's all about seeing who can do the most damage and get the most experience from one monster to the next. There absolutely no tactics to groups now. That is, unless you count "zerg" as a tactic. A lotof the groups that I have been in simply just sucked. Did I say a lot? I meant the two groups I have managed to find since the "new group changes."
Also, the pistol appeals to everyone because they are easy to get and abundant. The pistol, which is the main sidearm of many, also targets the health pool with it's specials. The specials for the pistol are dirt cheap and very powerful. This makes everyone use it.. but to top it all off it happens to be the most overpowered weapon in the game.
The pistol is pumping out damage very close to the carbine and rifle but much quicker. Also, the pistol is COMPLETELY unhindered by range. With just expert pistol in the marksman tree, I can run around at 64m and spam Body Shot 2 and hit 8/10ths of the time.
There is absolutely no reason to be anything other than a pistoleer. Not to mention Melee Defense 1, the skill that can single handedly take down a Krayt or AT-ST. I was 2 skill away from Master Pistoleer in the beta. I know all about the pistol. I know that it has NO disadvantage. You'd think that the pistol would have long range as a disadvantage. Think again.
I think that ranges need to be worked on. Why do I miss with my carbine around it's ideal range while using aim yet I can snipe from 64m perfectly with a pistol without aim? The game will be much more enjoyable when it weapons WILL be as they are designed. Pistol for short, carbine for mid and rifle for long. As it stand, Pistol = any range. And the other two weapons are by the choice of the owner.
Ah. By design, then. So, the supposed "advantages" to each are as such? Rifles target mind, typically the smallest pool for combatants and creatures. Carbines target action, which will hinder the opponent's special move useage (unless they're a carabineer as well, in which case they've got 60s for all pools on their weapon's special move cost, and hence any opponent will do this -- right?). And Pistols target health, which has.. what advantage? Any of the pools will incapacitate, what's the advantage to hitting health?
What if (when the pistols get tamed to reasonable damage and range in order to balance the weapons and spread out the mass of pistoleers), all weapons got a shot at, say, novice marksman (early on is the point). This shot increases the chance to hit health, but doesn't guarantee it like body shot does. It also, since it's an early skill, doesn't do a ton of bonus damage -- body shot 1 should probably beat it by a fair margin. Now, the aforementioned balanced pistol has the advantage of doing increased damage to the pool that everybody can target to a small degree. Health remains the preferred focus target of diverse groups, and pistols would excel at their health damage. However, if situations arise where multiple targets need to be taken at once, the riflemen and carabineers break off and start hitting their own pool types.
Basically, if they're not going to give each weapon type a way to hit each pool (like give everybody body shot 1, headshot 1, and leg shot 1 at some point in their skill trees), they need to give a basic move a good chance to help people focus on one pool, and I think health is a good one for this since it has no inherent advantages to it.
What do you guys think?
People want diversity and balance. Rifle is close to what it's suppose to be. Carbine.. needs some work. Pistol is fine exept for the fact that it is completely unhindered by the characters, "-50." Also, melee defense 1 needs to be toned down so it doesn't knock down large, gigantic cratures such as AT-STs and etc. Pistol damage is good. It has an advantage in groups, yes. Most people will use pistols and most people in star wars DID use pistols. That's good and all, but... why does the pistol hit more accurately than any other weapon could hope to hit for? I'm currently working on Rifle Specialist to master marksman and I must say.. it was MUCH easier to level pistol spec. It was MUCH quicker and easier. It was insanely accurate at 64m while moving.
At the end of the Beta, I thought that it was unfair for my high level BH/Pistoleer to be hitting at that range. But now that I saw that I was doing it with just expert pistol.. makes me fringe. Maybe people want pistol damage to be lowered. I think it's ok the way it is. But I do NOT think the range is ok. I don't see the big discussion anymore. I'm sorry, but.. If people don't see how the pistol should not be hitting from that range or can't see how overpowered melee defense 1 is.. they have certainly been living in a dream world. Leave the long range to the riflemen. I actually liked to play out my character and move in one things. It was fun. I thought it was cheesy when I was sniping people at 64m on the move with Eye Shot. Maybe people will see.
I don't see an outcry to nerf the pistol, just the range. Pistol range was a big topic in the Beta. Everyone agreed that it was shooting too far back and, for gameplay's sake, it should be where it's appropriate.
And Pistols target health, which has.. what advantage? Any of the pools will incapacitate, what's the advantage to hitting health?
When you do a standard attack, the hit location (and pool affected) is randomized, but it's not an equal chance of hitting each pool. From observation, it seems like a standard attack hits health rouhgly 60% of the time, action 30%, and mind 10%. So pistol specials stack well with everyone's standard attack.