Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer or Pistoleer??
Carbineer or Pistoleer?
Why should I go one over the other?
Carbineer
Advantages
- Does high damage with certain specials.
- Has some amazing knockdown and dizzy specials.
Disadvantages
- Seems to be quite inaccurate at times.
- Lack of choice between carbines (Only one or two are good).
- You'll incapacitate yourself using special moves.
- Major disadvantages within most types of carbines.
- DPS seems lower compared to the powerful and quick pistol.
- Counter-attack isn't any good.
- Lack of defense bonuses.
Pistoleer
Advantages
- High damage on specials and can easily compare to the carbine.
- The quickest of all the weapons.
- Very low special move cost.
- Some of the higher end pistols rival well made carbines in damage but are much quicker.
- EXTREMELY accurate at ALL ranges even while moving. The pistol fires anywhere unhindered.
- Attacks the pool that is most frequently attacked.
- Much more abundant than any other weapon.
- The ability to dodge incomming attacks.
- Very good Defense bonuses that are even better than the Teras Kasi.
- The ability to break another person's weapon.
- Melee Defense 1: An overpowered move that can knock down anything by whiping your pistol at it. Even AT-STs.
- Can knock down (melee defense) and attack the mind pool (eye shot) with high damaging moves (450+).
The only disadvantage I can think of is that perhaps the Pistoleer is going to be nerfed in the near future, which is most definately deserves. It is by far the most superior ranged weapon right now. It can manhandle every other weapon class if used well in both PVE and PVP. I was close to a Master Pistoleer in the Beta. I had my fun and now that I take a look back I realize that the Pistoleer class is way too overpowered than some may think. Playing a pistoleer was like playing SWG is "Cheat Mode." It was 100% accurate at any range while moving, did more damage than most weapons, attacked the health pool and was insanely fast.
Maybe some may not understand. I know that a lot of people want to keep the lid on all of this because they LIKE how overpowered the pistoleer is and plan on playing the easy class. I'd tell you right now to play the Pistoleer class. It is by far the best weapon class in the game. Nothing compares. But you should take into consideration that it might be toned down so it's even with the Carbineer and Riflemen. What really needs looked into is how accurate the pistol is as well as the high special cost for Carbines and how all the other Carbines but the DH17 is not worth it.
Yep, Kamenjar, the Carbine sure beats the heck out of the pistol when it comes to knockdown (ranged is much more convienent) 
But it is just about the only advantage I can think of. In PVE, I'd much rather use melee defense to keep a creature knocked down. Sure, you're up close in melee range but they won't have a chance to get up. On the other hand, with the carbine.. you'll incap yourself using it.
I think that pistols need nerfed. Let me tell you this.
Ok. When I was a Pistoleer in the Beta I did NOT want them to be nerfed. I thought they were fine. I didn't want my class that I chose to be "balanced." I thought all the other classes were fine. My good friend who played the beta as well (buddy key) was a carbineer. I will never forget the day I played his carbineer.
It was like cold water on the face. I never knew how good I had it. After that I decided that I should speak up about some of the stuff along witha few others on the Beta forums.. but I was still hoping that they wouldn't get nerfed hard.
Now I don't have my character. Now, as I sit here, I can think back to everything I did. I can think back to looking at the combat spam and constantly seeing myself outdamage everyone else over and over. I can think back to seeing my scatter pistol just as good as my friend's EXTREMELY well crafted DH17. I remember getting underhand shot and looking for carbines and ended up just borrowing my friend's because I saw NOTHING better than a DH17.
During the beta I can say that I was completely biased with the Pistoleer. I mean, it was MY class. Now.. I see things how they are. And what I see is this.
Pistols are way too accurate - They shouldn't hit that well over35m at all. I mean.. I had expert pistol and I could stand at 64m and fire my body shot 2 and hit over and over and over. Heck, I just grabbed a rifle and went prone at it's ideal range and missed 2/5 shots. I ran around at 64m spamming body shot 2 and hit each time. I mean.. what is that? WHY IS THIS GOING ON? I think this game would be MUCH more fun (ESPECIALLY in PVP) if the ranges on the weapons were true. I don't want to see a rifleman hitting me with sniper shot when he's 6m away and running backwards. I don't want to see a pistoleer running around at 64m and sniping me better than a Riflemen.
Maybe it's just me but even when I was a pistoleer in the Beta I wanted to range nerfed on the pistols. Why? Why would I want such a blatant nerf on my class.. because.. it's real. I liked being within my pistol range. It made it seem real. I liked running in and out of buildings like a brawler. However, I won't lie. I've killed many, many, many, many, many pour souls with my pistol at 64m.. because I can. I shouldn't have been able to.
Can pistoleer do area knockdown? I was carbineer in beta and ran into the same porblems as you mentioned (no good weapon, huge action drain for specials etc). The only advantage I see is the area knockdown for carbineer now. Can pistoleer's knockdown (whi) be used at any distance or just at malee range? And there's no multiple-traget knockdown.
I am currently on track for pistoleer as I gave up on Carbine. I have a feeling pistol will be nerfed and Carbine will be improved, but I love pistol defenses, specials, and hybrid options (I hope you are able to forsee my prof template
)
OR MAYBE, carbineers just completely suck?? Maybe They need work? Do you not have a knockdown? Pistoler knock down is overpowered? you mean the melee rnage one? Yet your DIZZY and RANGED KNOCKDOWN ISNT? Do you know what happedns when someone is dizzy and tries to stand up? They just fall back down.
While we are at it, tka have a ranged knockdown too! Nerf em! You guys may very well need a look at your weapon choice, but you have just as good of special moves then anyone. Lets not even talk about the rangedknock down with dizzy in *one* shot. Insta win pvp battle, game over.
Carbineer's specialize in knockdowns if you didn't notice. However, they miss too much to succeed. I had high level carbineer's/ BHs try Fire Knockdown on me.. personally I've never seen it work on someone. What I'm trying to say here is this: Carbine knockdown skills miss. Pistol whip just.. doesn't. I don't think any knockdown skill should be able to knockdown AT-STs and the such but I never had the chance to test out Carbineer skills, just them on me. I can tell you that Melee Defense 1 stacks and it's insanely fast and it basically hits every time. Melee range is VERY good unless you wish to run around at 64m sniping. Pistol's arn't suppose to be running around at 64m spamming their BS2's with a 90% chance of hitting.
I don't know if I can speak for all knockdowns but I do know that melee defense 1 can knockdown an AT-ST in a single sweep of your pistol handle! Melee Defense 1 also uses, say, 5 or so action. It's dirt cheap. I can spam it all day long and take out a Krayt with it. It'd take a good hour or so, but hey, it'd work. Any knockdown that does that should be nerfed. Also, just incase you didn't notice.. go check the pistoleer's defense bonuses. By far superior than anyone's.
You know, Elisk, the other day someone implied to me that because someone is a BH, they should have better skills and do better damage than any other class. In this example,it was Eye Shot being more powerful than Head Shot 3. Funny thing is, it's basically already like that in PVP. Just because I'm a BH, it makes me qualified to outdamage a move that the riflemen specializes in with a pistol. Think about that.
I was actually comparing Eye Shot to Sniper Shot, anyway. I used Eye Shot in PVP. It was very nice. I know a lot of people will have the chance to run around using Melee Defense 1 and Eye Shot as their PVP moves and if they play it right.. dominate. The only thing I ever wished is that.. I wished the devs didn't screw up the BH weapon xp so I could of used Eye Shot sooner.
For the record, I do think that all knockdowns probably do the same. They are all probably just as cheap. Carbines basically have to specialize in knockdowns or else everyone would definately go Pistoleer. You told us to look at our tree..guess what. It's theskills that is what's motivating people to play carbine. Take out all the knockdown skills and you minds well remove carbinefrom the game.
I don't know if this is true but I would assume that all knockdowns are just as potent. Like I said earlier, I didn't have the chance to see if TKAs could knockdown AT-STs or if Carbineer's can knockdown AT-STs. But I do know that melee defense 1 knockdowns AT-STs and that it should be nerfed. Any skill that knocks down gigantic creatures that way tons is completely insane. Also, ranged knockdown very well could be a one shot "insta win" battle. But so is sniper shot and Eye Shot and melee defense 1.
I'd like to mention this short clip. I've had a TKA hit me with knockdown once.. covert first strike after death. Of course the match was over when he had a successful hit on me.. but look at it this way. It was his ONLY chance at winning.
one thing i dont understand is that carbiner get absolutly no defense bonuses in their tree, i was looking at their tree and was like **edit** is this. Where are their defense bonuses that everyone else who specs in a type of weapon gets? did they forget to add them in?
Also i have been playing pistol till novice pistoleer. One thing i have noticed is that yes, even at my level 64 meters away i hit maybe 85% of the time. I used to take an aimed shot at these monsters from 64 meters away because i noticed i had a -50 to hit the creature, but then i started realizing that i would miss with the aimed option just as many times as if i hadnt used it at all. This defenitly needs to be looked at.
Also if that is true that a freaking pistol whip hit knocks down an AT-ST or any other large beast that is just stupid. Nothing should be able to do something like that besides maybe a (HINT HEAVY weapon (christ these things need love). It not only is cheap it ruins the realism of the game.
And i have no idea what gun this guy was using, but someone i saw who had a rifle shot a vrelt for 1004 mind damage... is that not cheap? I also regularly see riflemen one shotwhite and blue con mobs, grant it they get their ass kicked if the mob gets in close combat with them but unless you are mentally handicapped and dont know when to run that shouldnt really happen. Perhaps the rifles slow speed however makes this not cheap /shrug.
Yes, carbine basically don't have defense bonuses.
Aim works better if you get more +ranged aiming. You get that from the ranged branch on the marksman. Also, you get pistol aiming if you go marksman. But, you most likely won't need it. The pistol has a extremely high chance of hitting at max range.
Pistol Whip can most certainly knock down AT-STs, you can ask anyone. I'm Imperial Of course I didn't knockdown a AT-ST, but I have seen it done when I'd go on an anchorhead raid. I personally knocked down other high difficulty creatures, however.
To answer your question on the Vrelt. He was probably using a very nice laser rifle or e11 rifle. They have 2 armor class. If the vrelt has 0 armor class, he does 50% more damage. The laser rifle also can do around 350 max. So, doing maybe 320 damage with head shot 2 and 50% increase in damage, he would be doing around 1k. Yes, I think that some rifles are pumping out too much damage for how quick they are now. Yes, quick. I'm seeing E11 rifles that are around 5.6 speed. That's as fast as a pretty bad laser carbine. Pretty soon, there will probably be around 200 - 400 T-21's with like 6.0 speed pumping out 2k damage (best AR).
Oh well. Clearly, there is much balancing to be done to the game. I'm sure a lot of things will be addressed. Such as Carbineers, Rangers, Commandos, Squad Leaders and others.
i initially chose carbiner as my job, thinking all the skills sounded cool and very useful. until i played them and realized that to use any of the skills more than 2 times in a fight would mean leaving myself near death. i have since switch to pistol and i am enjoying running around at max range using body shot 2 with 90% acuuracy and no ham drain.
carbiners are broken, or if carbiners are "the vision" of what a class should be then pistols need to get about 6 rounds of the nerf bat. i am unfamilar with rifles so i wont comment.
jojo (intrepid)
And about Fire Knockdown being a "one hit insta win" move. Yes, it is.. if you hit. You minds well be a master carbineer if you're going to try to hit someone at 64m. On the other hand, the Riflemen have a "insta win" move. They'll be dealing over 1,000 mind damage in a single shot at 64m. Pistol/BHs will be dealing 600+ Mind damage from a single shot at 64m and melee defense will kill anyone who is close to them (and pistols should be close range, by the way). CH's will simply need to type "attack" and they won. Everyone has their one move to win a fight.
When I played my Pistoleer, I would run around out in the open at 64m and one hit (or 2 for those doctors) snipe people with Eye shot. Fun.. yes. But where I really liked to play was inside the cities. That's where it was most fun. That's where you can use banks and other buildings to trap people because one eye shot or one melee defense and it's all over.
I never once found myself saying, "Ohhh, darn those carbineer's, they're too strong!" I was hit with an underhand shot once and after that.. never again. And Melee Defense 1 can kill anybody and I do mean anybody. You'll be surprised how many people will pursue you. Basically, a Pistoleer/BH will have an automatic win Melee move and a automatic win Ranged move. Also, if you take a quick look at the skills tree you will see Pistoleer's have, by far, the best ranged defenses out of the three. Especially for Posture Change, Knockdown and Dizzy.
I would like to end this saying that, when I received Eye Shot it was my most frequently used PVP move. However, I had the most fun while using Melee Defense. A different change in tactics can be quite refreshing.. especially since the usual tactic was to wait 'till you see 64m pop up on the screen as that eye shot moves off the queue.
Not every carbineer or pistoleer will be a Bounty Hunter. Although they should have made BH harder to receive as it seems that a BH Carbine user could easily take down a Pure Master Carbineer and the same applies to Pistoleer. I would also like to add that I received BH status yesturday. Cheers.