Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer...is it true the Bounty Hunter Carbine skill is far better???
See now finally this is what i wanted to see people saying, "Know your role!!!" iam sure half the people thats complaining about the BH never even bothered to double click on their class and read what their skills do and what they get, before they come on here and scream nerf, nerf.
BTW any BH who tries defending us BH by using Boba Fett, its ausless example, me and a friend figured him out to be, master marksman, Master in the trapping skill. Wouldnt say explorer because his mobility is from his pack though hes probably in grt shape but sincefitnessisnt a skill dosnt matter, doesnt bother with tents or skinning animals (bossk would this skill should only be needed by trandoshan BH, any trand actually since its part of thier culture) so these skills arnt there. His artisan is high enough to do repairs on his own mandalorian armour (which is probably one of the best types out there) aswell as his own weapons. His piloting (i think pilot is a new class in the future, correct me if iam wrong) is atleast 3/4 up. Comando is also up to lvl 4in nades and atleast lvl1in each block. Hes half way up the tree in thetera kasiprof. then still being able to do major work on his own ship and work on droids, soooo what is that 600+ skill points, i'll leave the math to someone else i already firgured outwhat his skill tree looks like. 
sh33p3r:
"Also, the BH needs to have its requirements toned down a bit in conjunction with this. Rather than master scoutmarksman, i say novice marksman with Ranged 4(after all that combat xp, you have to be competent in something) and novice scout with explore 4 and MAYBE survival 4. That i think would reflect the value of this skill a bit more appropriately as its not a complimentary profession instead of the end all profession all by itself."
none of the changes i referred to would work unless the reqs were toned down to somewhere more reasonable. Personally, i would like master carbineer/pistoleer to be a req for novice BH. Im BH myself and would rather enjoy that, make it a bit more challenging.
i simply think that accuracy and speed should belong to a carbineer prof and that BH should build off that in terms of specials and equipment, etc. That does nothing but make carbineer and BH better(I am both).
toalc: who said BH is or should be better?
Look at the carbine weapons xp needed to get those speed and accuracy points... Not looking at the master level, but just at the eight marksmanship and assault tactics boxes plus novice carbineer, a carbineer must get 2,575,000 carbine xp to get +25 speed and +35 accuracy. A BH expends 40,000 combat xp and 1,200,000 carbine xp to get +50 speed and +50 accuracy.
Also, a carbineer's knockdown shot doesn't come until after 145,000 combat xp and 125,000 carbine xp, while a BH gets one at 40,000 combat xp and 150,000 carbine xp.
I do admit that it's more balanced because the carbineer's specials, but in a flat-out duel a BH has an advantage because he's got better speed and accuracy while having spent less than half the points to get there. If the first shot wins, i.e. knockdown, a BH has spent less time w/ carbine and is yet faster and more accurate.
>Who cares about skill points? Who cares about time spent learning pistol or trapping?
You would if you got Master BH and found you couldn't take any other significant skills, its barely enough to get some medic skills. Carbineers can master several other professions.
>I do admit that it's more balanced because the carbineer's specials, but in a flat-out duel a BH has an advantage because he's got better speed and accuracy while having spent less than half the points to get there.
Less actual combat xp maybe but Mastering Marksman/Scout takes a good while when you're not exploiting the various scout bugs, hell survival xp takes days alone, compare that to just going up the carbine line and immediately getting access to novice carbine skills...
As for speed/accuracy, yet again +5/+5 is nothing.. its all about the specials and a Master BH vs a Master Carbineer, the BH will always lose assuming both knockdowns are resisted; scatter shot2 does like 3-4k damage, BH Carbine tree has no high hitting specials, it has 2 knockdowns. Wow.
Kaffis wrote:
If I had my way, BH would be nothing but *maybe* the lightning cannon line and investigation line, spread out into 4 trees...
I'm sure if you had your way you'd be an all-powerful Jedi too. And have godmode. And infinite lives. A B A B Up Down Up Down Left Right Left.
That's how SWG would be for you if you had your way. I, for one, am glad you don't get your way.
Shadow_Stalker wrote:
Kaffis wrote:
If I had my way, BH would be nothing but *maybe* the lightning cannon line and investigation line, spread out into 4 trees...
I'm sure if you had your way you'd be an all-powerful Jedi too. And have godmode. And infinite lives. A B A B Up Down Up Down Left Right Left.
That's how SWG would be for you if you had your way. I, for one, am glad you don't get your way.
No, if I had my way, BH would revolve around hunting bounties (investigation, lightning cannon, humanoid traps like the ep. 1 darts, and boba's self-wrapping cord or whatever it was) and cost less skill points (for example, only require master scout and ranged support specialist), causing them to get their weapon prowess the same way everybody else does.
See, people seem to base their expectations for bounty hunters off of Boba, Jango, and EU portrayals of Bossk and maybe IG-88. But the fact is, there are several mentions of bounty hunters, and the reason they're only passing mentions is because they DIED or FAILED. Against their marks... The one that comes to mind is "that bounty hunter in Ord Mantell" that Han mentions as changing his mind. Obviously, he wasn't caught, and it sounds like the BH in question probably died. And then there's Greedo -- regardless of SE footage or not, the guy died to a smuggler (of course, personally I thought that the whole EU explaination that it was his first job or whatever was pretty lame).
I see no reason why the system couldn't have been (I understand that completely changing it now is troublesome since it's live and people have certain expectations of a modicum of stability in the characters they invest themselves in) set up such that a bounty hunter was just an ordinary guy when it came to marksmanship -- he just had to make sure to master it in order to keep up with the difficulty of his missions. The end result is the same (BH is forced to become very combat effective to complete his bounties), while allowing for more balance, since the BH is drawing from the same basic combat professions as everybody else. He just gets to use it in a special way.
>>Who cares about skill points? Who cares about time spent learning pistol or trapping?
>You would if you got Master BH and found you couldn't take any other significant skills, its barely enough to >get some medic skills. Carbineers can master several other professions.
Are you under the impression that BH's are going this oh-so-strenuous track while the rest of us aren't doing anything else? I'm also learning scout skills, plus medic and some artisan. Again, what do you give up? You will be master scout, plus master marksman. That's three master professions. How are carbineers more blessed?
And look at the xp counts. The BH gets better skill and accuracy mods while spending less than half the xp of carbineers. Why, because BH is a "pure" combat class? Bull.
>Less actual combat xp maybe but Mastering Marksman/Scout takes a good while when you're not exploiting >the various scout bugs, hell survival xp takes days alone, compare that to just going up the carbine line and >immediately getting access to novice carbine skills...
Hmmm... Do you have any idea how long it takes to get 200k combat xp? Sorry, but survival and trapping skill xp are cake compared to killing 2,000,000 weapon xp of stuff.
>As for speed/accuracy, yet again +5/+5 is nothing.. its all about the specials and a Master BH vs a Master >Carbineer, the BH will always lose assuming both knockdowns are resisted; scatter shot2 does like 3-4k >damage, BH Carbine tree has no high hitting specials, it has 2 knockdowns. Wow.
In any combat, speed and accuracy wins, especially for classes with knockdowns, because the first one to get off a connecting shot wins the duel. Who cares if the carbineer has two knowdowns if the BH can get his in quicker? A carbineer's burstshot for 1400 isn't going to matter if the BH gets his knockdown shot in first. Who's going to win that contest?
Once again, the fundamental unfairness is that the BH spends less than half the time training with carbine that a carbineer does, and yet gets more accuracy and speed mods, not to mention gets them quicker. The BH also gets underhand a lot quicker than a carbineer gets chargeshot.
exactly right kubernetes, the time taken for BH to get their better carbine skills is nothing compared to what a carbineer has to grind thro, as for BH's complaining the time they had to spend time gettingmaster scout, what a joke, i was master scout by the time i hit apprentice carbineer. All my scouting xp was done through hunting and missioning and didnt take that long, i mean really all u need to do is mask scent, then throw a few traps, harvest yourkill, and make a camp every now and thenand repeate whole process over again and the xp roles in.
tolac wrote:
Charge shot is a knockdown and is better than underhand shot, so whats the problem? A Master Carbineer has a knockdown thats better than the BH knockdown. Unless you want to make knockdowns exclusive to Carbineers I don't see the problem here.
Well since you're complaining about people posting who dont have any of these.. Do you have charge shot 1 and 2, and underhand shot? I do, I rarely use anything else than underhand / fire knockdown.
Charge shot isnt really better than underhand in most situations. Sure it knockdowns more reliably, but also the damage it does is extremely low, and ham costs very high if you start comparing those two. After the knockdown duration nerf, charge shot isnt even NEAR as effective as underhand shot, since you can just spam underhand and opponent stays 100% down while taking up to over 1400 damage a shot, while with charge shot you'd actually have to use another kind of shot that does some damage too, resulting in much lower damage overall cause you have to use charge shot every other shot, insanely high ham costs due to having to use 2 high cost shots to do damage instead of just underhand (which by the way isextremely low ham cost compared to the carbineer skills) and finally a higher chance of the opponent actually getting up after he's been knocked down.
This is currently partially cause of the extreme effect speed mods have and any shots firing at 1.0 speed, but no telling which of these will get affected more if they get fixed.. supposing it's not intended.
And charge shot 2, I'm sureAoE knockdown wouldbe nice if it worked, but it doesnt.
So yeah, I got master, I got AoE knockdown, I got underhand shot, nothing in the carbineer tree comes even close to it.
Have to agree with tthe sentiment that the BH is getting an unbalancing bang for his buck out of the carbineer line. To put it another way the carbineer is getting less for his dedication than he should in light of the speed and accuracy available to the BH for vastly less xp and skill points spent on the weapon.
People argue that a BH has to spend points on other weapons and on scouting. This does not entitle them to better bonuses because those other weapons and the scouting skills are useful in and of themselves. They are their own reward, not a punishment that merits extra special treatment. Camping, terrain navigation, and weapon versatility are all extremely useful. IfI work at three jobs for 13 hours a week I don't expect to get full pay and then some for each of them while a guy who works forty hours a week at one of them only gets one full check.
Look at it like this, if a carbineer is also a master marksman and a master scout, he is less accurate and fast with a carbine than a bounty hunter who has spent a helluva lot less xp and skill credits on carbine mastery. That's just wrong. It shouldn't even be close, the reward for the devoted study of a single discipline should by far outweigh the reward recieved by a jack of all trades, in this case by a factor of about 4x since the BH is only taking 4 skills of carbine versus the 16 carbine skills the carbineer is taking. Not to mention the fact that the carbineer skills actually cost more xp. The bounty hunter gets his killing power from his versatility and mobility. He can switch weapons on the fly to adapt to any combat style and HAM profile of his opponents. He gets the BH missions to play with. His camps make him relatively self sufficient in the field. Making him a faster,better shot than a dedicated master is not appropriate. I would sooner see the carbineer/pistoleer/rifleman get some love than that the BH get nerfed, but either way it needs to be rebalanced.
All you People don't understand the skill mods
This is what a Bounty Hunter gets for carbine when his only skills are: Master Marksmen/Master Scout/ Master Bounty Hunter
+75 To Carbine Speed That mod comes from the Marksmen Tree and the bounty hunter tree.
+110 To Carbine Accrucy That mod comes from the Marksmen Tree and the Bounty Hunter tree
As for the Carbineer With only Master Carbineer this is what he gets:
+55 To Carbine Spedd That mod comes from the Marksmen Tree and the Carbineer Tree
+95 To Carbine Accurucy That mod Comes from the Marksmen Tree and the Carbinner Tree
Now Whos going to win a fight? The person that gets the first shot off.
The bounty hunters going to get that first shot off because he has better speed mod for Carbine. As for the attacks the DoT for Bounty Hunter I think its called fire shot is very deadly. And if the Bounty Hunter spams Underhand shot your never going to get a shot off at the bounty hunter.
Bounty hunters take ALOT more skill pts. I wont play one.
Master Marksman. Blah. Four lines when you will be using one weapon most the time.
Master Scout. This is decent, and in line with the concept of Bounty Hunter.
Think about all the other lines you can pick up instead of mastering marksman.
Mal