Carbineer Archive

Sehk,

When I get home i will do the math of the elite carbine AR1 that I bought VS the DH 17 AR 0 that I bought, I will most likely be right that the AVG dps vs targets(AR0, AR1 and AR2)is higher with the DH17 and now, finally the HAMs are much lower too, all over an extended period of time. I have yet to use a Laser Carbine (AR2) so I cannot vouch for that. I have yet to find one IMO that has been worth buying.

Sehkmah, don't forget that they fixed Suppression 1, so now any marksman can potentially do a posture-down attack.

First of all Indalamar, dont patronize me. Ive been carbineer fromm day 1, ive finished my char, I have achieved every single carbine skill in game(sold BH carbine 4 back) and nothing you have said is something I dont have full grasp of. I have also conducted extensive testing of the skills in comparison to my guildmates which includes pistols, rifles, melee, and even a brave sole who had enough free time to actually work up LLC in BH.

Now that weve gotten past your assumptions.

When dizzy works we are not gods.
Dizzy is not the end all for us. You know why? You should as even yourself have stated how powerful this would be in pvp(which you are correct with). Devs want balance and im sorry, if carbineers have that ability in combat they wont be balanced, trust me it will get addressed.

Your also forgetting that BH pistol users and riflemen can do mind damage which cant be healed. Mind bleeds are one of the most useful things in faction warfare as even 10 docs arent going to be able to heal your mind(bleeding yes, damage no) so your effectively out of a fight until you can sit and rest.

I do alot of pvp considering theres not much else for me to do and I can tell you, i pvp almost nothing but pistoleers cause that all their is in game for the most part. They are not push overs with their damage. If you really think a pistoleer only does 100 damage and im doing 400 damage then your either not pvping or your fighting really crappy people. I consistently get hit for 200+ by my pistoleer guild mates and i usually hit them for 150-350 damage. Yes I do better damage in pvp, but I always thought carbines were a great profession for pvp even without dizzy. I almost always win in pvp and im nearly dead from my own HAM costs at the end of every fight. THIS IS NOT MY BEEF.

Lets cover that again, carbines in pvp rule right now IMO. PvE is a completely different issue and its something that some people do like to engage in.

First, you taking on 9 GBN with buffs. Who cares, you needed a friend to help you with buffs. That cannot be considered a part of your abilities unless your a doctor too. Someone else did it to you, Someone else did it to you, Someone else did it to you, Someone else did it to you............do YOU grasp this? Oh yeah, lets not forget to mention GBN dont shoot back, go hunt NS and see how you like being hit for 300 per second by the NS and 150 per special from your own gun.

The real kicker is this and this is the thing that you seem to not be able to grasp....and theres no way around it cause everyone on these boards knows it:
If you and a pistoleers take on a solo GBN, you will likely kill it faster than he will by lets say 25%(assuming you have a AR2 carbine and he has a AR 1 pistol). The problem is, your down to half or less HAM at the end of the fight where the pistoleer is still at 80% or more after the fight.

Ok, you make a camp and rest(assuming you dont have medic, as medic shouldnt be a requirement to use carbines) for lets say 60 seconds until full HAM...thats pushing it a bit, but will give it the benefit of the doubt.

Now your pistoleer friend is back up to full ham by the time he find the next GBN and repeats without having the downtime. In the end, he will kill more GBN in the same amount of time even with a weaker weapon due to his drastically lower HAM costs and virtually no down time.

**This isnt speculation, ive seen this with my own eyes with many pistoleers on many hunts..this is fact**

You make it out that we have the only good moves which is just plain wrong. Every one who take the ranged support tree of marksman has warning shot which is equally effective against melee pve mobs as actionshot if you know how to use it(once again ive seen this with my own eyes). Considering that once dizzy is fixed it will be adjusted(which i dont mind as it would be overpowered otherwise), I still have yet to see a single thing in any of your posts that would justify carbineers have 250% of the HAM costs that a pistoleer has at a marginal boost to damage. Specials will be balanced for each prof, if you dont believe it just wait and see.

Finally, you are the only one on the carbineer board to not see the HAM issue as a major problem even after they fix our specials. Just cause you have read the boards for a long time and played another MMO doesnt give you any special credibility, join the club. Dont come on these boards and talk down to anyone whos a vet on these boards and has been fighting from day one to get us fixed.

If you care so much about carbineers, where the hell were you when we had a mile long list of issues and not a peep out of the devs? Why didnt I see you posting about our issues and throwing in creative solutions. Buffs arent a solution, power ups arent a solution...dev attention is and theres no way to get around it.

Sojourner basically summarized what I was going to post so I'll make one last comment about your complaints with carbineers then I'm going to leave the thread alone. Your main complaint is with HAM costs saying they are too high. The majority of my thread has been answered exactly WHY they are so high unfortunately you don't like my answer ,which I along with many other people will agree is correct. The HAM costs for carbine are so high because they are intended to be that way exactly, YES dizzy will be amazingly powerful when they are fixed which is exactly why I have said the HAMs for carbines are where they are. I agree as I said BEFORE which you missed, that as it stands carbine HAMs are high but that is because they are designed around the concept of us using Dizzy/KD tactics against the mobs we fight. If HAM costs were low then we would not be as strong in concept as we were designed to be. What you are wanting is for pistioleer and carbineer to be the same across the board. The devs said we will all be balanced and different. Pistol is balanced with cheap HAM, fast attack, mid dmg attacks. Carbine is balanced (in concept ,not application) with high HAM attacks which take your opponent out of the fight, you pay half your HAM with 2 moves Because if everything was working correctly then even though half your HAMs are gone the opponent would be unable to fight back. Now I have addressed every legitimate rebuttle that has been brought up in this post and as everyone but Sehk would agree I have addressed these concerns with valid thought out responses. Sehk I'm not flaming you but you just don't get it. Voila, cyall in game. I'll pop my head back in the forum is something of value is being discussed. Farewell =)

Alright sehkmahBH, I am starting to see what you are getting at. It just seemed you were going too extreme with your arguement a few posts back, thank youfor clarifying your position. However, unless master carbineers can not takeany even cons at all without buffs and the other professions can, your artisan analog is more than a little strained. As you can see by my signature, I can't say one way or another if they can. I do know that currently (withExpert Carbine and Advanced Ranged Support) Iam capabletaking one or twowhite cons, even without using traps or stimpack (the traps on the creatures, the stimpacks on myself of course). I thought that without tactics and other considerationswhite cons were supposed to a fifty/fifty, or literally an even chance. Is this not the case later on?

Well, thing thing(without flaming indal) is that despite all fo the lovely arguments, the pve issue has yet to bbe addressed in a realistic manner.

If i take on 1 Stormtrooper(white con to me) and I kill him using supression fire and then a KD dizzy, its going to cost upwards of over 400-500 HAM just to get him down. When you take into account ive had to fire 3 actionshots at a single ronto before to get it to change position and it will be even more of a chance when defenses are working correctly, these numbers hold up in in game testing. So your down to half HAM so far as killing the ST with regular attacks, but if he gets up, oops....you have to fire more specials off to kill him or keep him down. At the end of the fight your crippled by the HAM costs involved.

No matter what they do to dizzy or any of our opther specials, this fight would still leave you in bad shape and not ready for another fight. A pistoleer can take down a ST just fine also, might take 20% longer, but they dont have a problem doing it........except they can jump right into another fight.

Wow, even with our dizzy working the pistoleer can hunt solo much more effectively than we can because of lack of downtime. There isnt a carbineer worth a **edit** in game whos gonna tell you a master pistoleer of same skill cant hunt equal game without less downtime than a carbineer. ALOT less downtime.

None of the arguments that have been made justifying 250% HAM. Also, we shouldnt think for even a second that SOE is going to allow a 2-shot win scenario in game.....every pvper will come over to carbineer and that is not what SOE or I want. I want balance and we currently arent.

Sojourner:

we have to remember that just winning one fight is only a part of the equation where hunting is about fight after fight, not just one then you go home. Sure we can win, but we are torn to shreds once we are finished.

At your level, I dunno bout the white cons, but ST's con white to me and having 2 of them shooting at you isnt an option unless your a medic too, you have to put them out of action somehow and lower posture doesnt do that as they still shoot. Also, even if indals dizzy worked correctly, you still coudlnt do it as one would get up before you got finished killing the other ST with regular attacks and if you tried to kill them with AOE attacks, youd run out of HAM long before either one was dead.

I have noticed that white mobs at my level seem to be much more difficult that white mobs when I was at a lower level. Perhaps due to the rising HAM costs of specials as you go up in the tree that makes advancement feel more like punishment than a reward.

**Indal, you can think what you want about HAM, and thats your right, but im sorry, If you think anything about our profession justifis our HAM costs then your just plain wrong. When they gathered correspondent issues, every single person who actually cared to post mentioned the HAM as a serious issue...many of us fairly high up in the trees at the time. You might not think HAM way too high even when our specials work, but the 99% of the community does. Hell, even my pistoleer friends tell people to not be carbineers due to HAM..im not making this stuff up.

SehkmahBH, what your describing sounds very much like an artifact of NPC HAM levels increasing (with respect to con level as youadvance)whilea PC's do not. I'm not advocating increasing player HAMs with skill boxes, as that would defeat one of the central themes of the games design. However, there should be something else that can be done to balance the equation. If, as you say,this effect is not as strong for pistoleers than that should be balanced by somehow. Preferably by enhancing carbineers rather than nerfing pistoleers.

agreed, im not for nerfing pistoleer at all, im for fixing carbineers

Its strange, I knew they were supposed to fix it, but even after patch, actionshot is still doing what supression fire is supposed to. Maybe they both do posture down now.........I thought they would have removed that effect from actionshot.

SehkmanBHnothing personal, butwhere has it ever been promised that Riflemen, Pistoleers, and Carbineers will solo with exactly equal effectiveness? The Devs have impliedthat soloPvE should be possible and viable for every combat class, but I don't think they ever promised what you are driving at. Also what's with this disdain for seeking any sort of help from anyone? Do you make your own weapons, if not you are relying on someone else just as much as someone getting a buff. So if you took your own arguement out to it's logical conclusion, a carbineer can't "solo" any creatures unless they also make their own weapons with resources they gather themselves. You may have a different opinion, but I don't there is anything wrong with grouping for PvE or that hunt most creatures it's better to be in a group than solo.

Again,none of this was ment as a flame to you personally.

This goes back to the difference of being balanced and being unique. HAM costs with carbines are not balanced with other professions even by a little bit(this includes once we have defenses working and our specials working correctly). All professions should be able to solo mobs that con equal level to them in a reasonable manner...they just have to use different tactics which are within their own skillset to do it. No where did the devs link carbineer with doctors or medics as a requirement.

The difference between guns and armor is that you buy a gun, you keep it, you use it and you dont have to replace it every 10 minutes. Its a tool for you to use and that everyone uses.

Think about this.......what do you think artisans would say if they had the ability to sample for resources, but were unable to do it without getting buffs from a doctor(that they would have to find, pay and get to buff them).

A gun is like buying a car, you use it for quite a while.......buffs are like a daily multi-vitamin that only someone else can give you. If you could give yourself buffs then it might be different, but giving low medics or normal people the ability to administer buffs on themselves takes alot away from the value of a doctor IMO.

Also, I dont think theres anything wrong with grouping for pve, thats been the sole argument of mine from the start. In a group hunt, im always the weak link cause im the first one to need rest....and thats typical.

I would like to point out that carbine might be really neat the way you points it out, but other weapons/classes have the same benefits. Pistol can Knockdown/stun you, leaving you in a haze you cant break from. Meaning for 10-12 seconds, you cannot do anything. You can get up, but preform no action. I have seen this many times on myself, hell, we even had a master pistoleer more or less kill our whole group. Not a bad one, at that either. None of us were entitled to do much at all till we were dead. When you finally were able to shoot again (Thats not likely to happen unless he **edit**s up) he knocks you down every 3ed move he does. So from the time your hit, till the time you die, you can do nothing.

Same deal goes with BH, cept BH gets to do both moves in 1. BHs knockdown automaticly gives you dizzy, meaning you are stuck to the ground for however long it is till it wears off. This should be a good 15 seconds, or so. Ofcource, when you half way look like you want to get up, he will just knock you down again and volla, you are stuck there again. If he is so weak he dont kill you the first time he knocks you down, surely you will die this time. If matters should be totally out of hand, and you survive the 2end time, the knockdown knows no remorse.

I think its a fine describtion of you Carbine skills. I too myself is waiting for the skills to be fixed. But for now I can share with you a little trick till they fix our stuff. Use single knockdown, then stun imidietly after. The guy you are shooting at will get up, but unable to do anything, stun is enhanced or something, and he will remain stunned (robbed of hes combat rounds) for a good 10 secs. Afte a few shoots, if you havent incapa'd him, just rince and repeat.

I think the general sickness of this game all in all is knockdown comobs in itself. The knockdown is fine, it should be able to be there, with a DAOC timer of some sort, I would prefere. But generally knockdown combos are still way to strong. If the stuff worked correctly, Carbines would be grossly over powered. AE knockdown, AE FA2. Whole group of people messed up hehe. Althought this brins up issues with the 1v1. That pistoleer can shoot me once, and I stay down forever ill im dead, tho I can more or less do the same to him, I surpose. But in general, that not fun. So I think they should think it over before giving people these "fixes" to carbine all in all.

Maybe set timers on stuff would work.

- Drack - Wanderhome
- Master Carbineer/Combat Medic