Carbineer Archive
Thread: You cannot compare BH to Carbineer, comeon ppl
Ok, I dont usally post on the forums but some people just get on my nerves. A carbineer SHOULD be better with a carbine than a bounty hunter. First of all the name implies that this person uses only carbines.
Why should a bounty hunter be better when he is a hybrid class that uses three different weapons? Three different weapons would make you more versitile for killing your bounties. That I can understand, but he shouldnt be "more efficient with them" than the carbineer. Look at the pistoleer tree, as you can see a pistoleer is very good at pvp, and can beat a bounty hunter. Carbineers can't kill a bounty hunter and they use the same amount of skill points as the pistoleer uses. So what, if you must use more skill points to get up to bounty hunter. You can make good money doing bounty hunter missions andits not like you wont use those scout skills that are a must for a bounty hunter. Most people that are combat professions get scout any ways.
The bounty hunter is a jack of all trades, and a master of none. I know I will get flamed by some bounty hunter for this post but I feel it is nessisary. The only people that say bounty hunters should be the best at pvp are the bounty hunters themselves.
Slice yer carbine! go for a 3.5 speed and do away with the ( BH bs Myth ) !
Seems that almost all the Carbineers *are* arguing that a BH *should* beat a Carbineer when it comes to 1 on 1.
The only issue of contention is *how*. A carbineer should be dealing more damage with straight use of his carbine. But the BH should be able to *beat* the Carbineer (and most anyone else)using other unique BH tricks, whether it be specials, buffs, de-buffs, and what have you. Not pure, straight, no-specials attacks with the carbine, especially considering that the Carbineer fills in many, many more boxes related to using the carbine itself.
A BH should requrie more work to reach master and by that logic, they should also be superior to a master carbineer/pistoleer/rifleman. Hands down better. The problem Ithink focuses on 2 areas.
1) How you reach BH
2) What about BH makes them better.
Personally, im a BH and carbineer. I would much rather have a tree or the whole profession of carbineer or pistoleer be a pre-req forBH. AsI see it, BH should be a further extension of honedcombat skills just as carbineer is to marksman. To accomodate this, you would have to change other pre-rews as well, lets sya not require master scout, but justthe survival tree of it? This takes care of the amount of work it takes to reach BH.
The othere side of the coin is that BH are really a weak profession. Theres nothing about them that makes them special or justifies such massive skill point requirements. I think they should take away all accuracy and speed bonuses from BH and put them in the core weapon prof where they belong such as carbineer orpistoleer.
Whats in BH then you ask? How bout a tree making it easier for BH to use armor(lowering HAM costs for armor and such). Maybe certs for special equipment that only BH can use. Another tree for BH special moves that arent dependant on a specific weapon....like the specials you get in the ranged tree in marksman. Another tree having to do with tracking targets(which would be much more useful when player bounties make it in game).
Great specials, and special armor with minimal HAM costs give BH and very distinct advantage in combat, but dont replace or detract from the skills of carbineer. They are only any good as long as you have those weapon skills already. After all, a special is no good if you cant hit anythign with it.
This is a adjustment that would improve BH and carbineer professions, not just one or the other. We need less nerfs and more balancing. SOE, put away your nerf stick and start thinking balance. You say nerf and the discussion gets far too defensive.
Why does everyone think that EACH combat profession should be EQUAL in 1v1 PvP? That seems absurd, and I think the developers have said enough during beta, etc. that people would just cease these discussions and urge the developers to get onto finishing the REAL balance issue--giving each of the elite (not hybrid) a distinct ROLE rather than making each profession theSAME but with different meshes in their hands.
/grindon
monkeysan wrote:
Why does everyone think that EACH combat profession should be EQUAL in 1v1 PvP? That seems absurd, and I think the developers have said enough during beta, etc. that people would just cease these discussions and urge the developers to get onto finishing the REAL balance issue--giving each of the elite (not hybrid) a distinct ROLE rather than making each profession theSAME but with different meshes in their hands.
/grindon
I find that a good sentiment, but a completely off the mark suggestion. What role should I, as a carbineer, perform next to my bounty hunter ally? He's already knocking targets down, dizzying them so they can't stand up, and killing or nearly killing them in one single special move. What can I do to support that? Pull out my stimpacks and just chain-heal his HAM damage from special moving?
I've never advocated combat professions being homogenized. I've never even suggested that they're power should be equal one-on-one. I want to see them have equal power in different (but practical) situations. And right now, carbineers are edged out of that -- we offer nothing unique, while Bounty Hunters offer everything you could ask for-- a super-move that does everything (knockdown, dizzy, and 1k+ damage) I'd ever want except target the mind pool specifically, and then the versatility to switch to another weapon that will target the two pools that the first can't.
They only way to balance this out would be to change the prereq for BH, so they are smaller.
HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS????
Why does everyone focus on 2 numbers and one skill set? Why does everyone forget to mention, how much it took for a bounty hunter to get there.
Always I hear that bounty hunter take less carbine exp to get better then master carbineers. Why does that matter? Do you have to grind thru camping, do you have to grind thru 3 other waeapons, do you have to grind thru trapping, do you have to have 1120 appr points, do you have to grind thre 40k combat exp just to get you NOV skill???
TychusTM wrote:
I don't think any Carbineers object to the idea that Bounty Hunters should be better at individual combat than another advanced profession.
The objection is that, presently, Bounty Hunters are better at combat with a carbine than a carbineer.
After spending 217 skills points, they should be.
All things considered, however, BH's are not all that and a bag of chips. I'm a BH right now, and I'm going to be giving up the class. Why?
BH's are focused on one thing, and one thing only: killing people. That is their specialty, and as a result, a BH owns in one on one PvP situations. Should they? Yes, in my opinion, they should. But that's all they can do! With only 33 points left after you master BH, you don't have a big choice of what your secondary abilities, other than killing people, are.
BH are very much so a "one trick pony". They are not versatile. I love versatility - its precisely why I stayed with a Ranger class for over 4 years in EQ. Other than killing things, you cannot really do much else.
I'm going to be dropping BH, and going with Carbineer and Pistoleer instead. The reason is I can free up so many more skill points as a result. This way, I can master one of the two weapons, be a creature handler, and also pick up a few artisan skills and medic skills too! 
In my opinion, this will be much more fun than e one-trick pony BH class.
Do they need to be nerfed? Nah, I don't think so. After spending 217 skill points, they deserve to be the best "killers" in the game. It can easily be argued as well, that a person who is more versatile by going Pistoleer or Carbineer, can be a more efficient killer than a BH can be, in the long run.