Carbineer Archive

Ah hell I can't push enter without this **edit**ing thing double posting.

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Skrymir wrote:

Umm the knockdown doesn't dogood damage so now its worthless? Pistol knockdown is a melee range move so its still not as good.Ranged knockdown is still the best move in the game even if you can't spam it over and over like the bounty hunter one. People like you make the devs think the players are all idiots and ignore the real problems.

Hmm p

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wrong, pistol has a ranged knockdown.

understand people, im only pissed because pistoleer and bh knockdowns do HIGH damage, as well as knockdown, but the carbineer gets low damage and knockdown. its an oversite that should have...well...been seen.

If the dizzy on fullAuto stuck, it wouldn't matter that our knockdown is short.

So you do a stupid animation every time you charge shot? Good god....

Also, disarming shot 2 (pistoleer knockdown) can knockdown multiple targets, it seems. I have charge shot 2 and I can confirm that it does not knockdown multiple targets, and I haven't seen it go above 600 damage with a laser carbine on the combat spam.

if they make it like that solo, and that would be fine, the bh line needs a damage shot for carbine.

All 3 are crowd control shots.

Keep in mind that only a Master Pistoleer can use Disarming Shot 2.

Elisk,

You seem to have no other damage causing abilities cause lightning cannon is currently doing damage whichseems to be no on par to the carbine line, you have to take the whole bounty hunter line into account, which gives you a broad weapon access, and special abilities which the elite professions don't have.But you know this discussion is worthless causeit doesn't matter at all,for the case thatthe devswould erase the damage effectfrom all cc-causing abilities the work would not been finished - you have torework all abilitites on all professions.And everyone agrees that it needs to be balanced at the end.

Have a view on the ranged combat professions and the appropriate number of combat abilities (However since I don't know every abilty it may be possible that Iconsidered non-combat abilities as combat abilities, so pls check for yourself if its appropriate or not):

We have the following professions in ranged combat which posess specific abilities if mastered (Yes I did not take into account Squad Leader):

Starter CombatProfession: Marksman (19)

WeaponfocusedCombat Professions: Pistoleer(12); Carbineer(15), Rifleman(14)

Special Combat Professions: Bounty Hunter(12), Commando(7)

Exceptional Combat Professions: Smuggler(4)

If wesum everythingup we have agrand total of ~80+ different ranged ranged/meleecombat abilities which need to be balanced against each other for pve and pvp situations. Now this is just an insane amount. AndI reallyfeel pity for theppl responsible to bring this together so that is fun for us allat the endto play.Allthough some professions share abilities which lead to the same effect, they actuallyare named differently and based on the feedback you guys place in the appropriate board parts alsodifferentiate in the strenght of the effect.

What it lacks, is a clear progression structure and a lot of abilitiesseem to not takefaster weapon delay enoughinto account before they weredesigned. For me it feels generallylike a lot of abilities were introduced in a hurryto fill gaps, maybe you guys from beta can confirm that. And this for sure wasa wrong decission. However sometimes you have nochoice. In business driven enviroments more then anywhere else.

Additionally a lot of them actually don't work as they should leaving this beast as a challenge for everyone that intends to sort it out, and an impossible mess to puta clearview from outsideon it, to get the big picture of it. However, at all it is a start. Something you can mess around with.

I guess one majorproblem we allshare is, we don't know what the defined roles of those professions are from a developers point of view.How do the professions fit in the big SWG puzzle? What is their goal in PvE and PvP. What from a developers view isgeneral PvP in SWGsupposed to look like? I miss the designersclear messagehere a lot, because itwouldprovide us all a stablegroundfrom which everyonecould build his argument structure.

It would make it for us all easier to see if the implemented professions actuallymatch to this picture or not, currentlyall we do is complain about the factthat our profession is notworking as "WE" think it should. Since everyone got a different view and assumption on howhisprofession should work, itis just a pointless discussion which at the end will lead to a dead end, because we can't be sure.

What I just can say is based on my personal experience with pvp in mmorpgs and the several times i participated within SWG:

- Encounters between factionsare way too short, should last longer to make pvp challenging and rewardingon a longterm perspective and to actually favor use of tactics and not brute force. To make this happen everything needs to be changed accordingly.

- Damage outputis too high,reducing all battles in endgame (once everyone is maxed out)to a challenge in participantson afirst strike, first win base. To make this happen everything needs to be changed accordingly.

- CC effects in combination with high damage is nonsense, cc is used toassistthe battle byturning thetacticalsituation in favor ofsomeone,not to kill a target before theadvantage of the cc effect can bring initsbenefit. To make this happen everything needs to be changed accordingly.

- No clear seperation visible between the different combat professions, which as we can see forcesppl in choosing professions with the biggest damage output. To change this biggest damage output in the shortest possible timeframe should not be the recipe for success.

- No clear seperation visible between the different weapons, what is the point of a broad choice of guns if ppl at the end anyway just choose the "best" gun available, and to make it even worse there is no logical progression. There should be more pro and cons on each weapon, making it the best gun, for different situations only.

- Faction point and Exp sharing system will be a problem if you wear off damage for the styles causing a cc-like effects. People like to work together to accomplish goals, but teams don't work if not everyone is threated equally and gets the same reward as the others within this team.

A lot of the problems we are suffering here from, and which we try to discuss result fromthe above mentionedpoints. However even If my postingbears a negative context, I like the system of SWGbecause itgot alot of potential, and the way developers are interacting with the community is a hugeplus and gives me hope enough to stay.

cheers

Sorla

Sorla, I have just one thing to say, after reading all that.

best...post...ever! I'd mod it to 6 if I could

actually you're wrong, bh knockdown hits for 1900 and up, (avg is about 600).

-wurmwood

bounty hunter

So then, the bounty hunters get a shot that knocks people down and does a ton of damage. The carbineer, a class that should be the best at using carbines, has an equivelant that is very hard to get to, and has the same effect but does very little damage. That doesn't seem too balanced to me.

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Besides, if you looked in to this profession before climbing this side of the tree you would have known this before you "wasted" your time. It's really quite your own fault you didnt do your research.

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dude after taking the first skill box in the intermediate assault box im sitting on 190,000xp wondering if i should grind out another 60k to go to advanced assault and get a totally useless stun special (action shot2 gives me all the stun i need and does alot more damage) or should i spend 175k of it to get legshot3 which is exactly the same as legshot. Or should i get burst shot1 which i hear is everything from crappy to good depending on whos talking about it.

exactly which "side" of the skill tree does all my research on this board, talking to other carbineers and checking out specials stats on other sites? you got me. please feel free to fill me on on a viable template for carbineer because ill admit im totally clueless. If it werent for the fact that i have no desire to do another xp grind i would surrender it all and go pistol.

As it is now, if you put a gun to my head and made me choose (when i trained my first skill as a carbineer btw i stood in front of the trainer for an hour and half before i chose what i saw as the lesser of 3 evils--yay im an elite class) i think a carbineers best bet is to go for the assault tree and leave the rest alone until the devs get done with them. scattershot1 isnt that great for damage but it is low HAM cost and thats something carbineers desperately need in a special. unfortuneatly ive yet to discover why damaging multiple pools a little bit is advantageous to damaging one pool alot (**edit** maybe i shouldve taken burstshot1). i suppose if the mob is low on mind pool and i get lucky and damage mind pool, it would work, otherwise if i need to damage health ill use fullautosingle and if i need to deal action damage ill use legshot2.

the next step up in that tree contains a useless special again. yay 250k xp.

the 3rd step, expert i hear is pretty good. scattershot2 supposedly does good damage on multiple pools for reasonable HAM cost. yay carbineer. unfortuneatly we shouldve got this skill on the intermediate level as the 2 specials below it are redundant when you get them.

i could go on to the other disciplines but we all know the deal.carbineers just do not really improve at all past novice. we dont get any special at all for obtaining mastery skill. finally after being left a basically inert profession at best and an inferior one at best, we get2 kicks to the groin: we get no new specials upon acheiving carbine mastery and we are theONLY profession that apparently doesnt get the "expert" title above our heads upon reaching "expert" skill in one of our disciplines.

ya this is a rant i admit it, but tell me, what am i missing here? telling pinktaco to do his research before training up the skill tree suggests you know the right one. fill me in because id love to know before i throw away some very hard earned xp and im sure many others feel the same way.