Carbineer Archive
Thread: I still don't get why ppl cry for BH nerf ? Plz read from my experience before flaming =]
See, this is where I think that carbineer/pistoleer should be a little better overall in their repsective weapon.
Bounty hunter gets 3 weapon skills for their 3 masters. If one was to spec into carbineer and pistoleer and master marksmen ship, they would get two subpar skills when compared to BH, have one less weapon to use(granted LLC isnt the best weapon at the moment) and doesnt have any of the 'extras' that BH gets. For that scouting mastery, you gain versatility and perks that pure combatants(carbineer, pistoleer, riflemen) dont get.
Im not saying make them extreamly better then BH, but give them a little something above a BH when the BH is using thier type of weapon.
I'm of two very distinct minds when it comes to the topic of what should be nerfed and what should be buffed, etc. at the moment.
First off, yes, you're right, there is a huge discrepancy between what a Bounty Hunter and a Carbineer are capable of. There should be. They're different classes and on top of that, different classes of classes. A Carbineer is, at least in my mind, more in line with a Marine grunt (if I may pull irrelevant but potentially illustrative analogies from the life that happens *apart* from CRTs,LCDs, and yes, even plasma displays, beautiful though they are) than anything else. She shoots with her carbine, she eats with her carbine, she sleeps with her carbine (however wrong that sounds), etc, ad nauseum. If the carbine isn't working at whatever task she is attempting, it must be because she's not using the carbine enough. I hope people are begining to detect a theme here -- the Carbineer is an Elite profession which directs its entire focus on the carbine.Bounty Hunteris a hybrid profession which spreads its focus amongst a variety of things. So should a Carbineer be better with a carbine than a Bounty Hunter? Yes, of course. Should a Carbineer be better in combat than a Bounty Hunter? No, of course not. This is because the BH has the advantage of versatility (read: tactics) because of her broader skill base. A BH should know better than to try to get into a carbine vs carbine duel with a Carbineer because a Carbineer *should* be able to waste her doingso. The BHshould have studied their mark and known that this isn't a bright idea. But have you seen the damage on a BH pistol? Or the penalties on most carbines at point blank? A straightCarbineer shouldn't be able to stand a chance against a BH in PvP simply because a BH should have known the way to take down their mark wasn't with their carbine and simply gotten up close and personal with their pistol. Oddsshould bepretty good that laser carbine is going to miss first.
Secondly, and more importantly in my viewpoint, you'll notice I use the word "should" a lot in the previous sentence. That's because the game flat out isn't working as described (I won't say "as designed" simply because I don't know SOE's designs for the game -- and am pretty sure my ignorance in this respect is the source of any and all bliss I get while playing the game). I see no point in ranting or raving about what should be buffed or what should be nerfed until they get everything *working*. Yes, the game is unbalanced. It's also very, very broken. The two do go hand in hand. And I honestly can't fault Devs or Sony or really anybody for that fact -- SOE sold us beta4 because they knew that we would buy it, and thank them for the privledge.
Hera on Lowca-- You don't know broken until you've tried to play a Combat Medic. :-)
My biggest complaint...
Master Marksman... gives +50 to carbine accuracy and give +25 carbine speed
Carbineer... gives +40 to CarbineSpeed and +55 to Carbine Accuracy (also gives +30 to Carbine Accuracy while moving)
giving a total of +65 Carbine Speed and +105 Carbine Accuracy
Now lets look at bounty hunter
gives +50 Carbine Speed and +60 to Carbine Accuracy
Thats gives a total of +75 Speed and +110 Carbine accuracy.
The ONLY thing carbineers are better at is that they can shoot better while the runningaround... not like its hard shooting while running without these "accuracy while moving" mods I mean I don't have them yet and I can't complain.
Too funny,all I have to say is try it before you knock it. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Go try it you may think your old grass was better. Bounty Hunters are meant to be the quick kill artists. Bounty Hunter/Assassins are always supposed to be abel to gain the element of surprise to kill their opponent. Where as the guy who specializes in a particular weapon knows how to fight well with it. Not necessarily how to kill things in one shot but in a firefight that lasts be able to know how to fight offensively and defensively with his weapon. This is how I believe sony has meant for this to work and once they get all the bugs fixed from what I see thats how it will work. So drop the nerf bats think about it for a minute take a deep breathe and relax. There is always someone bigger and badder and complaining because your not gets you no where.
Ataget Runningstrider
soon to be carbineer
Rianna,
Yes, these stats may be correct (dunno off the top of my head, and am not about to run around checking right now), butI'vealso heard that there defensive bonuses that Carbineers get on top of those? If so, why did you fail to put them into your equation?
Iwill take it for granted that any dev reading has seen enough arguments by now about how obvious that a specialist's speed and accuracyshould exceed that of someone who spends 1/4 to 1/5 of their focus on a single weapon type.
The next question is where do people get an argument that the bounty hunter should be the best combat class? The entire carbineer (or pistoleer/rifleman) tree is dedicated explicitly to combat. There are no investigative tree branches to fill out. Scouting is not combat. Every combat class should excel at combat. The bounty hunter's advantage is versatility which is not possible using any other combination of classes. The other combat classes should also have distinct advantages, and they sure as hell should be the hands down best at what they do if it's all that they do. What do people think carbines are for if not man to man combat? Machine gun type weapons are simply not made for killing animals. They are designed to kill people efficientlywhether there is a single target or a group of targets in close proximity. They make up for their lack of accuracy with suppressive coverage and unparalleledcumulative stopping power. Animal hunting weaponry is almost exclusively in the rifle category. Pistols and Machine guns are made to kill people.
The definition of "Bounty Hunter" from Merriam Webster:
Main Entry: bounty hunter Function: noun Date: 1930 1 : one that tracks down and captures outlaws for whom a reward is offered 2 : one that hunts predatory animals for the reward offered
The argument that Bounty Hunter's are assassins is just fallacious. It isn't true to real life and it isn't true to the star wars story. The fact that they only designed kill missions for the BH is probably more reflective of the ease of coding and control of those mission types than anything else. of course, the only missions most people run are destroy missions which are.....bingo kill missions also. There is no valid argument that any combat class should be the ultimate screw balance best at every weapon type and unparalleled in pvp. And if such an argument did exist the best fit would be a commando.
Main Entry: com·man·do Pronunciation: k&-'man-(")dO Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -dos or -does Etymology: Afrikaans kommando, from Dutch commando command, from Spanish comando, from comandar to command, from Late Latin commandare Date: 1884 1 South Africa a : a military unit or command of the Boers b : a raiding expedition 2 a : a military unit trained and organized as shock troops especially for hit-and-run raids into enemy territory b : a member of such a unit
A military trained shock trooper is disciplined and formally trained by the top specialists available to kill a lot of people fast. They don't trackpaper trails and interview friends and relatives as to their target's possible whereabouts.All they do is kill people and move. A bounty hunter is usually an ex-cop or detective who has gone consultant. Sure some of them are probably the best of the best, but without any formal training required any low grade vigilante could end up a bounty hunter. There is nothing to say that this type of fighter should be the ultimate.
Realistically speaking any weapon specialist should be the best at what he does, no questions asked. Time in = results out. It's a simple educational formula that holds true in every category of learning with the only modifiers being talent and intelligence. Speaking in game terms making one class the "uber pvp" class would be foolish. It would single handedly ruin pvp for all intents and purposes.
Are you effin' serious? Have you bothered to look at the carbineer tree? Tell me, how many combat xp does a carbineer need to get chargeshot1 (its knockdown shot)? You think 40k combat xp for the novice BH is a tough requirement? Good god you have no clue...
Lamron7 we don't think we should be better than carbineers in the carbine. At least I don't. I also don't think we are better than carbineers. The problem with the carbineer is simply put IT'S BUGGED. If it wasn't so bugged maybe you would have an easier time vs th BH. What good is a defense against knockdown if the defense is bugged. I still think the carbineers are a more well rounded user of the carbine. I mean come on you guys get 15 specials compared to our 3. You get accuracy while moving and we don't. Do you really think taking down a mark with 10K HAM will be done while prone. I would love to have some of the specials you guys have but I can't. I've made the decision to go BH because my play time is so limited and I've put a lot of work into the marksman and scout trees. I was wavering for a long time on which one to do and finally decided to go BH since I wanted something that built off of both trees and BH is the ONLY class that does that. If Carbineer built off the scout tree in any way I would pick it up in a heart beat.
Just because we get bigger numbers than you in 2 catagories *does not* mean we are as vastly superior as many of you think. Should you get higher speed and accuracy marks. Maybe but hey here's the beauty with your correspondant you can make this one of your top 5 issues to submit to the devs. Just like we have asked fora BH specific Carbine to go along with the scatter pistol and our LLC.
First off, 3: Underhand shot is a first tier skill in their profession, making it easy and fast to get. It's also the only knockdown in the game that dizzies in addition to knockdown (from my understanding, some random obscure class may also get a dizzy knockdown, in which case there's a problem with that, too), causing the opponent to not be able to get up from that one move. Also, we carbineers complain loudly about this one because ours is the least damaging knockdown by far -- and to be honest, effect moves like knockdowns should really be low damage to start. Posture change and knockdown should never be spammable as the means to not only debuff/prevent retaliation, but the sole source of damage as well.
I'll comment on this one first. Underhand is a 1st tier skill, but if you actually sit down and think about it for a minute. A Carbineer can have their knockdown before or around the same timeas aBounty Hunter does. It's a matter of what is important to them and what they want to do during their training. All a Carbineer has to do is go up the Carbine tree, which everyone I have heard from so far says it is easy to advance in one weapons tree as a Marksman. So I think the arguement needs to be put down now. As for Underhand causeing dizzy it doesn't Fire Knockdown does and it is in the third tier, and from what I've seen it actually knocks a target down less then Underhand does.
6: BH is the hardest profession to obtain. Sure, if we all quit playing when we reached master, this would be a concern. But in a game where we max out our characters in like 2 months, but expect to play for years, this falls on deaf ears unless we who took 'easier' paths to max out get something else we can do with the xp we get afterwards. The simple fact of the matter is, everybody will max out their character, and time invested isn't that different. A lot of people act like a Bounty Hunter is mastering first one profession, and then another. They're not. I can speak from several friend's experience when I say that by the time they get the combat xp to enter BH, they've finished the scouting stuff just by doing scouting things along the way. It's not like you're either working on scout or you're working on marksman. You kill stuff for marksman, throw a trap in the process, then harvest for scouting xp, and heal up in your camp. We who don't do scout take just as long for the kill, and then longer healing up to make up for the couple seconds you spent running around harvesting.
I would say try it yourself, it is alot harder then what your making it out to be. True we do work on both at the same time, fact of the matter though you have to focus on one or the other as a priority. I was finished with Marksman about 5 days before I even got done with Scouting. Now that doesn't seem like a long time, but lets see how much of a head start that would give a Carbineer in their profession.
7: Tell me how your time sitting in tents has been combat training? Or how your time in combat leading up to BH (and thus throwing traps and hunting creatures to harvest) has given you such great experience in fighting humanoids that you suddenly become supposedly super-elite people-killers. I love that argument, it makes me laugh.
Scouting for a Bounty Hunter doesn't make sense right now, I can agree completly with that. It has nothing to do with a Bounty Hunter and combat at the moment. Hell I'd be all for getting rid of the Scouting tree and adding another combat tree for Bounty Hunters. The problem though is that people will still complain that Bounty Hunters are overpowered even if they do have to put in twice the work of any other profession. This posts are getting ridiculous they really are. If you see Bounty Hunters as the end all be all in the game then be one. People sit here and complain about PvP and how Bounty Hunters own everyone. Well I hate to break it to everyone but the game is more PvE in nature. I'm sure everythign will eventually be brought more in line to make things even but the fact remains that the skills are designed based towards PvE encounters.I think there are some people who do need to grow up this is a game, and meant to be fun. There are problems but those can be fixed butcrying because your not the best andbecause you 'think'you should be isn't gonna cut it here.
Here is my input...
BH Carbine line = 50 points in each Accuracy and Speed for only 15 Skill points cost!
Carbineer = 30 points in each Accuracy and Speed for 30 Skill points cost!
how is that possible?
And that isn't only for carbine.. pistols too.
I'm a carbineer i'm supposed to be the best at my weapon.. yet BH get better Accuracy and Speed with LESS Skill point cost.. I think that is unacceptable.
Either Nerf BH or boost Carbineer.
Carbineer needs a boost and lots of fixes anyway.
Just my 2 cents :}
Yriah
The Hairy Wookie!
BH Carbine line = 50 points in each Accuracy and Speed for only 15 Skill points cost!
Carbineer = 30 points in each Accuracy and Speed for 30 Skill points cost!
This has to be the funniest thing I've heard yet. When a Bounty Hunter says that they use twice the skill points to get to where they are, Carbineers and Pistoleers jump all over them. Yet it's alright for one of them to justify wanting more power for the same reason. Sounds like double standards to me.
Carbineer and Pistoleer are borken in several places. Why not wait till they get those places fixed before you all complain that you aren't as good as you should be. The speed and accuracy differences between Bounty Hunter and the other advanced professions isn't that **edit** huge that it makes that much of a difference. Once all your defensive bonuses are working right you can bet there will be Bounty Hunters saying nerf Carbineers and Pistoleers, just because there are people who want to complain their cake doesn't have as much frosting as the other persons.