Carbineer Archive
Thread: A comparison of Pistoleer, Carbineer, Rifleman (accuracy numbers, speed, etc)
One thing that does set the Carbineer apart is that we have more skills that hit multiple mobs. Now I don't have all the skills in front of me for all 3 ranged classes, but from what I remember, we are supposed to have weapons and skills that can better hit more mobs at once than the other classes. I mean, when you present a group of mobs to me, I'll outdamage any class in the game (not sure about commandos though). It's not uncommon for me to be doing up to 4000 points of damage a combat turn. Another example: how many of you like to stand in front of your favorite nest, hit the nest,hit yourFullAction 2 icon, dropping all the mobs in one turn? me? I'll give up defenses and accuracy to have more spray and pray skills.
Pistoleers should have better defenses. That is to balance out the fact that they have to be up close to attack effectively. so they are closer to danger so-to-speak.
Riflemen, on the other hand, pay for the damage in the form of slow attacks and high HAM costs.
Falkyrk wrote:
One thing that does set the Carbineer apart is that we have more skills that hit multiple mobs. Now I don't have all the skills in front of me for all 3 ranged classes, but from what I remember, we are supposed to have weapons and skills that can better hit more mobs at once than the other classes. I mean, when you present a group of mobs to me, I'll outdamage any class in the game (not sure about commandos though). It's not uncommon for me to be doing up to 4000 points of damage a combat turn. Another example: how many of you like to stand in front of your favorite nest, hit the nest,hit yourFullAction 2 icon, dropping all the mobs in one turn? me? I'll give up defenses and accuracy to have more spray and pray skills.
Pistoleers should have better defenses. That is to balance out the fact that they have to be up close to attack effectively. so they are closer to danger so-to-speak.
Riflemen, on the other hand, pay for the damage in the form of slow attacks and high HAM costs.
While it's great thatCarbineers seem to be a "crowd control" profession, I'd ratherwe don't become know as the "pray and spray" profession.
Also, whileI might accept that pistoleers having a slight edge on on defenses, this is rediculous! We only get any sort of bonus to to TWO types of special attacks. Falkyrk, I'm guessing you only PvE, and in PvEit's not really an issue, especially if you can group. However,I think being a"pure" (i.e. non-bounty hunter)Carbineerin PvP shouldn't be inheirantly valnurable compared to other "pure" (againpure meaning without other combat professions taken)ranged combat classes! We are also a bit deficient in other skill mods (like aiming), but the lack of defenses is by far the most glaring defect.
I'm not going to threaten to quit either the game or the skill, but don't try to convince we should be this outof line with the other weapon specialists.
well i kind of would like the crowd control but unfortunatley one of our defining skills- ChargeShot 2 doesnt even work.
I think we really need to try to figure out what +10 speed means. I have seen many people say +10 speed means 0.1 sec faster reload. It's really important we find out because this will let us know if its balanced or not.
Take if its 0.1 speed. That means carbineer with +35 speed fires a 4.0 second carbine every 3.65 seconds. That's 8.75% faster firing speed which is almost negligable. At pistol increase of +49 would be ~0.5 seconds. On a 2.0 second pistol thats a 1.5 reload or a 25% increase - substantial.
Now lets assume its %. 4.0 sec carbine with +35 fires every 2.6 seconds: a really nice boost!. A 2.0 pistol with +49wil fire every second: again a nice boost in speed.
Basically, if is a % based number, sincecarbines have a larger reload, expect to have smaller boosts to speed. If its +10 = 0.1, then carbines need MUCH large speed boosts than carbines in order to have a noticable effect. If its % based, then carbines don't have it that bad. If its 0.1 second based, we are getting majorly screwed.
That being said, since pistols already fire so fast, it is going to be VERY difficult to figure out that the +10 really means. Rifles will be the best weapon to use - the slower the better. +20 to a rifle that reloads at 7.0 will either be 6.8 or 5.6 These 2 numbers should easily be distinguished from each other with a stopwatch. I have Master Marksman so I intend to look into this more tonight.
To my knowledge all +speed mods work off the same formula:
+10 = -.01 speed reduction
I've been thinking of switching from pistols to carbines, partly for a change of pace and partly because the carbine special attacks look neat. But the skill mods for this profession really do need a second look by the Devs.
I should probably start another thread for this...
I wondered above what +10 accuracy meant...does it mean 0.1 speed decrease or 10% speed decrease. First, it's going to be impossible to tell on pistols cause they fire too slow. You need to do the experiments on rifles which fire slow.
I got out my Laser Rifle that is 7.0 sec reload. I am a Master Marksman, so I have +30 to rifle speed. So, either I am going to fire the rifle at 6.7 speed (if its +10 = 0.1) or 4.9 (if +10 = 10%). All I used was simple /attack since specials add time. I used a stop watch and I tested this over and over again. I was consistantly firing my rifle at around 4.9 seconds. Essentially, I could type /attack and fire, fire and fire and my stop watch be under 10 seconds. Please note that lag is going to make things longer and not shorter. I am fairly convinced that +10 = 10% faster.
To verify I got out my laser carbine which is 3.3 speed (it was sliced for speed). I am +40 speed so that means either 2.9 (if +10 = 0.1) or 2.0 (if +10 = 10%). This one is clearly going to be trickier since the difference is really only 1 second. I used /attack again and it is very clear that I am firing every 2 seconds. To double check, I used how many times can I fire in 6 seconds? I should fire 4 times in 6 seconds if the reload is 2 seconds and only 3 times if its 2.9 (both these values include the firing at time Zero). Fired 4 times in 6 seconds every time I tried.
Again, lag would increase the number. I am very convinced that +10 = 10% faster speed which if that is the case the numbers listed about are very good.If pistols and carbines got the same boosts, it would actually be too over powering to carbines since they fire slower. However, look how fast the boosts are going to make rifles fire....that's pretty scary!!!
Feel free to try these experiments yourself. Just please, don't use pistols as they fire too fast to take accurate measurements - or atleast use some low quality pistol with a 4.0 second reload.