Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Info for those with some Novice Medic
, so in actuality MDoc are only receiving love in this pub as MCM still heal about as well as CM 4000 dabblers
What is the heal difference between a Medic xx4x with +25 HE, a CM 4xxx with Medic x44x, and a MCM with Medic x44x. I was kind of curious.
(Just for reference, MCM w/medic x44x gets HE +100)
Jagdwulf wrote:
Skillpoints.
A couple weeks ago, there were posts on these forums about people experimenting with the following template:
MBH/MR/P0004/Medic 0020
It used up all your skill points and wasn't much medic. These same folks discovered that if you grabbed a bunch of nice Healing Efficiency tapes....you were still getting fabulous heals.
So in essence, they were able to keep the rifleman abilities, still grab the pistoleer root, and still be able to have some pretty nice heals.
Jedi_Xan wrote:
It is a shame. Something got nerfed that was working exactly as it was supposed to. That is, afterall, what skill tapes are for.
I couldn't have said it better.
Its just.....well.....sad.
Jedi_Xan wrote:
mmaness wrote:
Jedi_Xan wrote:
Jagdwulf wrote:
Skillpoints.
A couple weeks ago, there were posts on these forums about people experimenting with the following template:
MBH/MR/P0004/Medic 0020
It used up all your skill points and wasn't much medic. These same folks discovered that if you grabbed a bunch of nice Healing Efficiency tapes....you were still getting fabulous heals.
So in essence, they were able to keep the rifleman abilities, still grab the pistoleer root, and still be able to have some pretty nice heals.
The problem was, someone started complaining because medic xx2x healed for more than Jedi/Dr (not true)/CM (not true). The real issue is that it wasnt bacta shot that was the problem. Bacta shot is/was fine. The problem is that people completely overlooked +25 HE and the elite medical professions have diminishing returns, which means with +25 HE and a Droid are not as effective for a doc or cm, as they would be for a xx2x medic.
It is a shame. Something got nerfed that was working exactly as it was supposed to. That is, afterall, what skill tapes are for.
It wasn't working as intended as everyone was getting heals based on the advanced form of each skills... it just wasn't an issue until the Jedi whined once Medic healing got beefed up and people were pumping them full of charged plasma and heaing for 1k. I've always noticed it wasnt working as intended but no one seemed to care except Master Docs and MCM, until the Jedi came in the picture
Look. The reason (((( REASON))))) that medic xx2x was gettting good heals is because in addition to the+15 HE that medic xx2x gave, add +25 HE from the skill tape as well. That is +40 HE by itself. Medic xx4x + 25 HE is +50 HE. CM 4xxx is +65 HE. A CM 4xxx could heal for 500 more damage than a medic xx2x with +25 HE. This is not broken, and is right inline with the way the system worked. +40 HE vs +65 HE is about 500 pts.
Doc can easily outheal both a Medic at any level, and a CM. Where is the problem.
The problem is that HEwas the ONLY factor being used to determine the effectiveness of the heals, when it
Jedi_Xan wrote:
mmaness wrote:
Jedi_Xan wrote:
Jagdwulf wrote:
Skillpoints.
A couple weeks ago, there were posts on these forums about people experimenting with the following template:
MBH/MR/P0004/Medic 0020
It used up all your skill points and wasn't much medic. These same folks discovered that if you grabbed a bunch of nice Healing Efficiency tapes....you were still getting fabulous heals.
So in essence, they were able to keep the rifleman abilities, still grab the pistoleer root, and still be able to have some pretty nice heals.
The problem was, someone started complaining because medic xx2x healed for more than Jedi/Dr (not true)/CM (not true). The real issue is that it wasnt bacta shot that was the problem. Bacta shot is/was fine. The problem is that people completely overlooked +25 HE and the elite medical professions have diminishing returns, which means with +25 HE and a Droid are not as effective for a doc or cm, as they would be for a xx2x medic.
It is a shame. Something got nerfed that was working exactly as it was supposed to. That is, afterall, what skill tapes are for.
It wasn't working as intended as everyone was getting heals based on the advanced form of each skills... it just wasn't an issue until the Jedi whined once Medic healing got beefed up and people were pumping them full of charged plasma and heaing for 1k. I've always noticed it wasnt working as intended but no one seemed to care except Master Docs and MCM, until the Jedi came in the picture
Look. The reason (((( REASON))))) that medic xx2x was gettting good heals is because in addition to the+15 HE that medic xx2x gave, add +25 HE from the skill tape as well. That is +40 HE by itself. Medic xx4x + 25 HE is +50 HE. CM 4xxx is +65 HE. A CM 4xxx could heal for 500 more damage than a medic xx2x with +25 HE. This is not broken, and is right inline with the way the system worked. +40 HE vs +65 HE is about 500 pts.
Doc can easily outheal both a Medic at any level, and a CM. Where is the problem.
The problem is MDoc and MCM with +25 skill tapes dont heal for much more.... they have skills (adv bacta jab, shot, spray, etc...) that are essentially medic level skills in the current system (since all heal levels are of equal value!)
mmaness wrote:
The problem is MDoc and MCM with +25 skill tapes dont heal for much more.... they have skills (adv bacta jab, shot, spray, etc...) that are essentially medic level skills in the current system (since all heal levels are of equal value!)
Jedi_Xan wrote:
mmaness wrote:
The problem is MDoc and MCM with +25 skill tapes dont heal for much more.... they have skills (adv bacta jab, shot, spray, etc...) that are essentially medic level skills in the current system (since all heal levels are of equal value!)
:shakes head in disbelief:
It's called diminishing returns. The higher the points, the less effective. Or in lamens terms, when you are at your most effective points wise, more points arent going to make you better. Skill tapes ALWAYS benefit lower point levels over high point levels.
qfe
chryd4436 wrote:
The problem is that HEwas the ONLY factor being used to determine the effectiveness of the heals, when it
should have been HE and skill level. Right now, if HE is equal, then
bacta shot = improved bacta shot = advanced bacta shot
and it should be
bacta shot < improved bacta shot < advanced bacta shot
This isn't a nerf, but a bug fix. The bug benefited those who used basic healing skills to heal at higher levels
than they should have been able to. It also hurt MDs and MCMs, since the skill points they used to get the
improved and advanced versions of their heals were basically worthless. While I understand that people
might not like it, it did need to be fixed
Jedi_Xan wrote:
mmaness wrote:
The problem is MDoc and MCM with +25 skill tapes dont heal for much more.... they have skills (adv bacta jab, shot, spray, etc...) that are essentially medic level skills in the current system (since all heal levels are of equal value!)
:shakes head in disbelief:
It's called diminishing returns. The higher the points, the less effective. Or in lamens terms, when you are at your most effective points wise, more points arent going to make you better. Skill tapes ALWAYS benefit lower point levels over high point levels.
But that wasn't the case.
I snagged this data for my guildmates when the information hit the Jedi boards.
This message contains results from healing tests, conducted post-Publish 19, using various medic, doctor and combat medic templates. The subsequent post includes data analysis and the third includes summary and conclusions. This post is being placed simultaneously on the Doctor, Combat Medic and Medic Forums.
TESTING METHOD:
Each data point represents an average of 5 of more heals. For each template and type of heal, results were obtained: (1) with no healing modifications, (2) with +17 Healing Efficiency clothes, (3) with 110 medical droid, (4) with enhancer (except Bacta Shot), and (5) with all the above modifiers. Please note that even higher heals could be available by using +25 in healing efficiency clothes and/or healing efficiency food or drink.
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
Special thanks to Jaskar, Tazi, Phenom, Aufeek, Kivrin and Robii who volunteered their time to help collect this data.
***************************************************************************************************************************
BACTA SHOT
Template Base HE Skill no mods +17 HE clothes +110 droid Clothes& droid
0000 Medic 5 Bacta Shot 299 787 747 1237
0020 Medic 15 Bacta Shot 617 967 1050 1418
0400 Medic/4000 CM 65 Bacta Shot 1313 1413 1747 1850
0400 Medic/MCM 80 Bacta Shot 1411 1505 1849 1926
0430 Medic/MCM 95 Bacta Shot 1476 1549 1926 1983
4040 Medic/MD 105 Adv. Bacta Shot 1525 1576 1962 2026
***************************************************************************************************************************
BACTA TOSS
Template Base HE Skill no mods +17 HE clothes +110 droid +1290 enhcr Clth&drd&enhncr
0200 Medic 5 Bacta Toss 231 618 572 818 1517
0400 Medic/4000 CM 65 Adv Bacta Toss 994 1084 1338 1576 1990
0400 Medic/MCM 80 Adv Bacta Toss 1083 1125 1410 1654 2050
0430 Medic/MCM 95 Adv Bacta Toss 1129 1175 1462 1714 2080
4440 Medic/MD 105 Bacta Toss 1168 1194 1486 1740 2110
***************************************************************************************************************************
BACTA SPRAY
Bacta Spray Base HE Skill no mods +17 HE clothes +110 droid +1247 enhancer Clth&drd&enhncr
0400 Medic/4000 CM 65 Adv Bacta Spray 820 886 1072 1271 1589
0400 Medic/MCM 80 Adv Bacta Spray 887 928 1140 1365 1637
0430 Medic/MCM 95 Adv Bacta Spray 915 966 1189 1318 1680
4440 Medic/MD 105 Bacta Spray 938 975 1211 1385 1685
**************************************************************************************************************************
BACTA JAB
Template Base HE Skill no mods +17 HE clothes +110 droid +1296 enhcr Clth&drd&enhncr
4040 Medic/4000 Doc 80 Imp Bacta Jab 700 728 916 1080 1348
4040 Medic/MD 105 Adv Bacta Jab 756 782 970 1142 1400
***************************************************************************************************************************
BACTA INFUSION (heal per tick)
Template Base HE Skill no mods +17 HE clothes +110 droid +1171 enhcr Clth&drd&enhncr
4040 Medic/4000 Doc 80 Imp Bacta Infuse 263 274 276 284 301
4040 Medic/MD 105 Imp Bacta Infuse 288 284 295 301 326
***************************************************************************************************************************
Take, for example, the case of 0000 medic. +17 HE improved Bacta Shot by 488 points. The +110 Droid was actually less effective improving it by 448. But when you combined the two of them is when you had 1200+ heals off Novice Medic, adding 938 points per heal. Now, diminishing returns should have made that number less. It did not. It's actually MORE thant the two separately and added together. 448 (110 droid) + 488 (+17 clothes) = 936. 1237 (droid + clothes) - 299 (base heal) = 938. So instead of diminishing returns, it gave back MORE than adding the two together.
chryd4436 wrote:
While what you say is true, it is also true that increasing your skill mods (with tapes and other items) was
not meant to replace higher level skills. This defeats the purpose of the skill trees. A person with basic
medic skills should not be able to heal as well as someone who has spent skill points in doctor, assuming
their HE is the same. Elite professions don't just get increased skill modifiers; they are supposed to get
better skills as well. This is the benefit of spending skill points in doctor or combat medic rather than just
buying tapes, droids, and foods.
What should have been done is increase the curve of returns out for advanced version of bacta shot instead of decreasing the curve inwards for standard version.
That way a MD with +25 HE tapes would heal using Adv BS for much more than a Med xx4x with +25 HE tapes using Standard BS
Of course decreasing the curve for St. BS has the same effect (MDs healing for more than a M xx4x/+25), but would have been making skills better instead of nerfing them.