Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The boy who cried Nerf
sony-is-a-thief
Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:11 am
#27
I regards to the nerf cries I just want to give you an example of why they need to be in this board
example: all professions have a bleed except TKA's. Bleeds are part of those professions DPS output. Bleeds were nerfed for them, this nerf did not effect TKA's DPS output, thuse making themrelativly stronger.The people who play those profession do not know this only people who doTKA and a bleed professionknow this. (its an example but its true)
So where do I post my complaint since all classes got a DPS reduction except TKA's? Scattered acrossevery profession board except TKA, TKA,inlive,core system,nowhere? No one likes these nerf cries and all boards have them your not special. How about a board just for nerf cries?
You arejust telling people to stop complaining, but seriously that is what these boards are for some people just do it betterthan others.
EnragedMonkey
Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:46 am
#28
Yes. Damn whiners are pissing me off these days. I'm not even a TKM anymore, I started Swordsman last weekend and I still get PO'ed when some **edit**tard posts another nerf topic.
ArkMindSpear
Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:43 am
#29
I don't like this.
You can't sensor people no matter how much you may or may not like what they have to say.
The TKA forums arn't just for TKAs. It is for any information that some one wishes to share or make known, that regards TKAs.
In a perfect world, you could filter out the people who are saying nerf becouse they are dumb, and the people who are saying nerf for sound reasons.
But, as is, no one is quallified to make this distinction, and therefore you should just deal with it.
I understand your frustration though.
BountyBlunter
Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:51 am
#30
Clayre wrote:
Well, saying 'nonsense' just tells me you disagree in an opinionated way - unless you are an expert of course, which isn't endorsed by your title of 'Novice TKA'. Let's just take it you disagree and I will explain.
The NERF callers usually call for a nerf on some ridiculous pretext, which is largely inaccurate. In this forum, the seasoned players just take away all their arguments and show them up for the idiots they are. No fuss, no pain...and it strengthens the TKA position in the reader's minds. If they are excluded from this forum, they have 30 + other fora to post their ill-conceived views on the uberness of TKs. They may well post in a forum where they get positive attention, because those members also want TKs to be nerfed. Disinterested readers also start to form an opinion and, as all they see is negative posts, they tend to take that view.
I said nonesense because, yes, I am opinionated.. Very opinionated.. Which maybe I shouldn't be but I stand by my convictions.. And no I am not an expert on the TK profession but I really don't need to be to start this thread, and also stated that I was a nov TKA and wasn't an expert somewhere on here - so your right. Maybe my post was a little harsh and sorry if it cheesed you off.. However I do call myself a bit of an expert on HTML, JS, PHP and SQL and also on creating and maintaining forums which stick by the rules. I know rules to prevent useless feedback are not in place on SoE boards, but they should be, and you will never change my mind on that one..
Moving on. Ok I get what your saying here.. If we put them all into one thread/forum and let them spout about these problems unchallenged then the people who are simply posting crap would have thier own place to do so, which could make it look like the professions they are challenging do indeed need to feel a NERF. This could happen.. But then again when they all get into one forum the opposite could happen too, they could get bored crying NERF when the only thing they get out of it is everyone else crying NERF with the same one-liners, when they find out that everyone they are talking to is saying "Erm, yeah I agree" they will stop posting, thats when the profession they are challenging step in and make a killer post and give them a chance to respond.. The thread/forum wouldn't look like anything more than a bunch of people spouting rubbish, with no real factual content at all apart from when a TK chooses to write a kickass post outclassing everyone in that thread, looking down the only things you would notice and read would be these posts, well i would anyway (given it may be TK do need a NERF for those of you whos blood is already boiling).. This would stop threads being hijacked by NERFers. You can't say to me that 100% of the NERF feedback is usefull (i know you didn't, just a figure of speach), I have read almost all of the threads and content on this board for the past few weeks and the NERF threads do sometimes give a welcome diversion and yes and sometimes they ARE kind of factual with so far ONE thread I have read trying to provide facts and even pics about the fact we are overpowered (didn't work though in my eyes), almost always the TK do shine and make a killer post which blows the thread out of the water as they did in this case and I have to say they did it well.. The only thing that seems to happen though is once one thread is finished off by a decent post and the NERFers get bored with it because they lost, they start another, and another, or hijack a post which they think they can squeeze in a quick one liner on and ruin it as it turns into ANOTHER brawl.. It happens too often.
I don't think that putting everything into one thread would have a negative impact, it would just add structure and stability to a professional board dominated primarily by hijacked threads and the same discussion on something which seems to have been going on since last year and already seen more than one result for whatever side. If you think that SoE listens to the majority and they should, as they majority puts SoE's food on the table, then why dont they run a simple vote ? That would settle it right ? if 50% or more of the entire voting population of SWG vote YES for a TKA NERF (that is 50% in total, not 50% of the total votes counted) then it would be totally fair to NERF a profession based on a democratic decision. Not only that, it would give both sides an answer to what they need to know, how many people want a TK NERF, how many people don't and how many people don't care about this whole subject and just want to get on doing something more productive and fun.. Given that I have designed sites and that user polls on so called 'hot' subjects usually provide nice feedback collected quickly, they should do that as well as confining these NERF cries to a single thread..
Everyone here has a right to their own opinion, right or wrong in the masses eyes, so they should have a chance to have their say, but when you give everyone the right to run wild it seriously impacts on a part of the community which is trying to do only positive things with their time. For example I wanted to start this thread, but I have probably spent more time looking at it, reading all of your comments and writing replies than I have in SWG (also sleep and work of course come in somewhere).. Which is my fault I know, but you have given usefull feedback and we are having a very heated debate about a so called 'hot' topic which is great. Thats what a forum is about, its not about allowing people total control of their own submit button..
Another fine example of a thread about NERF I saw recently consisted of a post which had N - E - R - F written in huge letters one after another but not using a large font, it was written with the word NERF it was a huge NERF made of NERF's.. Then someone created something equally as 'amusing' with a phrase I can't mention due to forum rules, heh. This thread was there a while, and it was LAME and against SoE ToS for this board.. So lame I really cant be bothered finding and linking it, also I would say it was deleted ? who knows.. But I know some of you saw that, and hopefully you will back me up when I say THAT is NOT productive, funny maybe, insulting to some yes, but not productive. I could now of course cry myself and say I was insulted by it and the people doing that should be NERFed and suspended from the board..I wasn't insulted, but didnt find it anything more than a simple roll of the mouse wheel with a pretty straight face.. Maybe they should be suspended, maybe they have been, but I doubt it. But they are free to do the same again, and if you have ever used a program like Y!Messy you know that forums or chat rooms with that kind of content lose credability, and someone who doesnt want to be bombarded with insults, stupid comments and spam will leave the network or put half the people there on ignore.. We dont have that power, we have to read the crap to see the content here. I personally use Y! and IRC as chit chat goes but use custom rooms and servers where the people talking are my friends or are of a certain community, and have valid things to say of course. I also use the pub, but with 5 pints down ya, your a little more open to people using profanity and having one line shots, generally the people there are of the same age and are unlikely to be insulted by what your saying, or be insulted bacuse there are kids around.. You ever seen how a granny reacts if you start F-in' and Jeffin' in front of a load of people the same age as you, with kids and mums around who are waiting for a bus ? hehheeh... It's not right to give people the right to say what they want, when they want, where they want and YOU ALL know it.. If it was this board wouldn't have the basic rules it does now.
Freedom of speach is an illusion and a god given right at the same time, yes you have the right to think and say anthing you please, but sometimes there will be consequences to your actions. We know what is right and wrong, and we know when we are over the line. Next time you want to excercise your right to freedom of speach and think its right to do it when and where you want, stand up in a cinema and say what you think of a crap movie that ia sickly sweet and just for kids, using your full range of verbal insults, i guarentee that you will see a little torch winding its way to your seat acompanied by two rather large guards. Sit down in a doctors office and pretend you have some form of infectious fungal condition which effects the genetals, then proceed to tell everyone as loud as you can, watch how many people begin to move toward the other side of the room.. Go in to a bar and order a pint, then tell the 8ft meat head next to you with a neck bigger than your torso that you really fancy his bird, then watch how fast you are on the receiving end of a Dizzy KD combo.
Freedom without control is anarchy! And sometimes people get hurt.
A more revised way of saying what I (and we it looks like) want to say at this point could be "NERF is a topic which should be more limited, but not removed. It should be given its own space, and the professional sections of boards should be left for professional discussion."
To the people who may think I am speaking for the TKA, im not, im speaking for myself.. Hopefully a few other people too when I say it. When I become a TKA master however, which shouldn't be too lonng if I can get back into SWG and off here *grin* hopefully you TKM's may respect my opinion a little more as I am waging this war on your board *wink* Oh and I will keep TKA novice as my tag until I get TKM to add a little bit of mystery.
Finally my own 'toasty' comment, I am not a book burning nazi as no doubt a few of you think, and if you think what I am proposing is book burning then I am definately not coming to your place for a read.. Your collection may consist of such great titles as "1m l33t", "m3 pwn3d j00" and of course who can forget the timeless classic "NERF!1NERF!!!NERF!!!1!!111!" (all in all 4 pages including index and both covers).. If you are comparing these posts to a book, then you must have some weird books is all I can say, which is fine, I just don't want to pay to read them thanks.
PS: Browser here isn't a normal one so my posts look a bit 'dirty' on the layout to say the least.. sorry. Oooo, that was a long one...
Grable22
Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:18 am
#31
Depending on the idiocy of the nerf thread, a mechanism should be implemented where a boot pops out of the monitor to attempt to kick some sense into the poster.
Roninnn
Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:45 am
#32
Ark understands our frustration? LMFAO!!!
Ark and Caskins are perfect examples of the problem's with the tka boards. I have mastered many professions and have always gone to the boards to get advice on leveling, weapons, tactics, etc..
This is my 11'th profession and by far the worst boards to try to learn anything from. Idiots like Ark and Catkins do nothing but make post after post of nonsense. You really have to look through pages of "nerf" threads to get to something usefull.
As for blocking nerf posts...i dont think you really can. It would be nice if someone had the time and authority to ban certain players (ark, catkins) from our forums if they continue to post the same thing over and over and over!
I'm saying let people have there opinions but try to curb the short bus just a little.
Roninnn Three
Master TKA
Defconn
Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:22 am
#33
ROFL!!!! Ronin...you are right...biggest joke I've heard all week... 
The guy must have elephant hide for face skin...
tometaophion
Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:03 am
#34
"I have forseen it"
"twilight is upon me and soon night must fall"
And so shall I begin the slow but sure departure from this game I have begun, since at last realizing the devs have insured a certain set of professions must always win in player competition. This is in no doubt due to their own status as hopeless diehards of a riduclous and pathetic sort. It is of my understanding that their calls to continuity are calls to the extended universe. That lovely EU, a place where aliens run the Imperial fleet in a xenophobic Empire, where Luke Skywalker becomes evil, Where Boba Fett is god, and other complete trash. I tire of it all.
For the preparation of a sudden influx of Jedi caused by the weaknening of the Jedi sytem, relegating it to 'quest' based, ie easily exploited, and subject to complete domination by those that use cheats, hints, and other bull to advance themselves in a game designed to be fair, the devs have begun the vaunting of the natural enemies of these exploitative and lifeless fools, most notably the empowering of the Bounty Hunter and TKA. I am often told of the weaknesses of the bounty hunter. Their weakness is supremely this, that against a prepared opponent that one cannot dispatch in quick and tricky ways, one is a gonner. I believe this is subject to the movies indeed by the deaths of boba and Jango, but that is pure speculation.
The TKA has no weakness. The developers really thought a majority of people would not notice. And Among those TKA who begged and required they be made as strong as Jedi to emphasize continuity , they were constantly and still are constantly given that 'continuity wink' to insure they will always reign. their is no kinetic disadvantage. I posess 80% across the board composite, and 39% stun resist helmets. I also have several shield generators of differing uses. The 2 hand powerhammer, the bh llc, the pikeman vibrolance, the fencers stun baton, all are equally as protected in effect and proportionally as the TKA attack. The difference in pve is a completely different subject. 166 0f 749 listed creatures at www.swgcreatures.com have kinetic resists greater than 30%. The Mitigated DPS of TKM against players is 350, indeed comparative to Rifleman, BH, Some Carbineers. The DPS is 452. Except the speed mod of a TKM is 115 compared to Swordsmans 70. The Result is that TKAs are faster and deadlier than any combat class in the game, including rifleman, and BH. TKA hit the head harder than a swordsman, hith the legs harder than a carbineer or pikeman, and hit all 3 ham bars resulting in an associated dps greater than any weapon in the game.
The most deadly moves of the TKA are giving high delay mods, this does not affect their speed which results in all attacks being performed at 1.0 speed. The result is that their is no careful decisions regarding which attacks to use. other classes, particularly the slower swordsman and pikeman are delayed severely for example ALL TKA attacks, even those at 3x Dmg modifier and 4x time modifier are delivered at 1.0 speed. The Swordsman headhit3 at 4x dmg and 2.25 modifiers arenders a dps less than the TKA, making the TKA the premier head hitting profession. swordsman attack speed with this attack with the above super fast hammer is 2.1, resulting in a dps adjusted for AP after mitigation of 633, compared to the TKA dps in attacks against the head of 1400DPS. The 'delay mod' is meaningless to the TKM, it is a very important factor for all other combat professions.
The disarities in the TKA vs all other class is plainly indicative and represents an undeniable wish of the developers to include an elite class among classes for the 'truly adept and with a clue' to play, whilst they attempt to hold back their laughter at the propensity of other people to navigate to classes they for some reason enjoy yet are hopelessly underpowered. TKA are self sufficient doctors, masters of all forms of martial combat, masters of all form of targeted attack, masters of all forms of defense, in all categories(toughness is all too often overlooked), so on and so on. What follows are my premonitions of the various changes to occur to the combat system to insure a complete ease for Jedi in all combat situtious they may enter completely without fear or repurcussion except against the TKA, in the following changes.
1. A complete removal of the bleed system. This change was supposedly implemented to insure against players bleeding creatures much over their level. Irregardless of the capacity of a group to attain such loot as dropped by these creatures, or a single person to attain such loot, the loot is attained, and introduced to the market with similar ease by a SINGLE person, whether that person be alone or the lucky recipient of the groups efforts. The existence of conceal shot though slow, yet indeed faster, and completely without the creatures attention, than bleeds at a slightly higher dmg modifier is indicative of the fact that pve was not the driving concern for this change. TKA do not have bleeds. Other professions, not acting in terms of EU continuity were able to challenge the 2x disparity in TKA dps with targeted bleeds, in some cases actually defeating them. Commandos were incapping repeatedly after applied flame dots, causing complete wounds to the person, arendering them in medical centers, for, depending on doctor presence, a VERY long time.
2. Healing Of The Mind Pool- Swordsman/Rifleman inaccuracy, and slowness was answered by the fact that they hit an unhealable pool. Often the downfall of TKA is to overuse specials making their mind quite low. The ability of Rifleman and Swordsman to exploit this weakness, and actually defeating them, will result in the removal of the unhealbility of this pool, resulting in Doctor/TKA becoming the most daunting profession to face. Entertainers will become and remain useless, as the healing of the mind pool, will also accompany abilities by doctors to heal mind wounds. This is to facilitate a reliance on special moves and not on HAM, a reliance that will completely vaunt the lord of special moves, TKA, and the lord of special abilities, the Jedi, and completely remove the ability for targeted professions, whose weakenss of slowness and inaccuracy and characteristic low defenses, balanced their ability to strike mind. The current power of the Rifleman is in keeping with the state defenses of pistoller at 4 times that of rifleman, the state effects of carbineer and Bh. The rifleman state changes are wholly useless, their advantage raw power and speed, against a pool that will soon be healable. The advantage will shift from ham attack rate or power, to special moves, which many classes have none, save those which dmg, at modifiers and adjusted dps LOWER than the more flashy classes.
3. 'Profession Specialization' as mentioned by the devs is quite interesting. What professions do a bounty hunter or tka rely on? the answer is none, they are self sufficient, other classes must 'rely on' other classes as mentioned by the devs in the questions posited in the in concept threads. The combat changes, shall assure completel domination by the jacks of all trades, masters of all TKA, BH, and Jedi. The rest should shut up and watch.
4. The vaunting of certain classes is a subconscious conspiracy of the Devfor the insured suitability of their own preferred play experience, in particular with regards the professions that they enjoy playing.
5. The new 'ham bar' idea if accepted and indeed the way combat will occur, will ruin pve and pvp. The changes to the 'creature catalog' will reequire groups to combat a vast majority of creatures in the game, including common creatures found on the more dangerous planets. Fighting in groups is precarious, particularly as sony technology is notoriously pathetic, and all group endeavours, even 30 in a cave, are all too laggy to play competitively.
6. The inability to strike with surprise, power, and quickly deal death to an opponent in pvp, will result in longer combat, presenting more opportunities for group TEF. Combat will be extended and boring, an exchange of standard attacks, a flurry then of knockdowns, state change effects, and a general orgy of wasted stims and other items, due to the extended nature of the combat system whose mind weakness was newly striken. This will no doubt drive the economy but will not present opportunity for a reasonable interest in pvp to be aroused, for their is no clear strategy, save the overemphasization of special attacks, of which some classes have few, and the matching of your combat profession with doctor.
BountyBlunter
Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:21 am
#35
tometaophion wrote:"I have forseen it""twilight is upon me and soon night must fall"
Ok I said at the beginning of my thread I didn't want any NERF crying going on here as this was a discussion about the fact crying NERF in every thread is causing the TKA pro board to look like nothing more than a screaming bunch of kids..
This isn't one of those posts, I read it, I listened, I formed my own opinion.. Im not a TK master im a bit more than a novice granted.. But no master. And am not qualified to put a comeback post down for this one, unless of course I go against my own rules and stick a one liner in.
Even if the writers opinion is wrong or right, they have shown a clear ability to form a structured, interesting , relevant post. I am actually pleased someone posted a NERF comment in here now, but don't get your hopes up yet.. This one was worth a read, unlike so many others.. If this turns into another brawl over NERF I will truly lose faith, because so far its been going well, and after that post I'm sure alot of peoples blood is boiling...
So, given that someone who stands by their NERFy convictions has posted a decent NERF statement here to show us that its not all stupid one line comments from kids still suckling from their mothers chest, and us TK have said we can shine and give killer replies.. Take it away TKM , its your turn to respond.. And don't mess this up by making it a one liner please.
Ariekb
Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:00 am
#36
our corespondent's name is Jherad he had to take some personall time...no one canrefuse him that...but he is back. as to the whining that is going on even in this thread.......
all I have to say is if you don't agree with someone then why post over and over arguing with that person...take it to PM cause all your doing is making yourself look totaly retarded.
atone48732
Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:03 am
#37
but he's been posting the same stupid comments on every board
more postings does not equal out to him being right
it just makes him irritating
man I wish tome would just go away
hes been crying about the same stuff for weeks now
oliphontmon
Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:10 am
#38
how many times are you going to post that garbage tom? you havent realized we dont need you here yet? cakins did and even a few nerf whiners that came after you, you really have to find something constructive to do with your life.
KnapweedD
Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:20 am
#39
tometaophion quoth:
"I have forseen it"
"twilight is upon me and soon night must fall"
And so shall I begin the slow but sure departure from this game I have begun, since at last realizing the devs have insured a certain set of professions must always win in player competition. This is in no doubt due to their own status as hopeless diehards of a riduclous and pathetic sort. It is of my understanding that their calls to continuity are calls to the extended universe. That lovely EU, a place where aliens run the Imperial fleet in a xenophobic Empire, where Luke Skywalker becomes evil, Where Boba Fett is god, and other complete trash. I tire of it all.
The reason Bobba Fett becomes Godhas nothing to do with game dynamics and everything to do with the human condition. In a society where the only real crime is to be 'Unknown' or 'Ordinary', villains will rule as long as they are 'famous'. The first question any kid is asked when they hit a new school is, 'Are you popular?', not, you notice, 'Are you friendly, gifted or intelligent?'. Good deeds are for suckers and the strong wil take what they want, backed by the admiring masses. Folklore heroes are always villains, they always have been and they always will until we lose our desire to be famous at any cost, even if our only claim to fame is to be a psycopathic gangster or a sniper in a tower.
The TKA has no weakness. The developers really thought a majority of people would not notice. And Among those TKA who begged and required they be made as strong as Jedi to emphasize continuity , they were constantly and still are constantly given that 'continuity wink' to insure they will always reign. their is no kinetic disadvantage. I posess 80% across the board composite, and 39% stun resist helmets. I also have several shield generators of differing uses. The 2 hand powerhammer, the bh llc, the pikeman vibrolance, the fencers stun baton, all are equally as protected in effect and proportionally as the TKA attack. The difference in pve is a completely different subject. 166 0f 749 listed creatures at www.swgcreatures.com have kinetic resists greater than 30%. The Mitigated DPS of TKM against players is 350, indeed comparative to Rifleman, BH, Some Carbineers. The DPS is 452. Except the speed mod of a TKM is 115 compared to Swordsmans 70. The Result is that TKAs are faster and deadlier than any combat class in the game, including rifleman, and BH. TKA hit the head harder than a swordsman, hith the legs harder than a carbineer or pikeman, and hit all 3 ham bars resulting in an associated dps greater than any weapon in the game.
You've made your points very clearly and your argument appears unassailable BUT, you have, by accident or design, left out a VERY important factor, i.e. Armour Piercing. Are you seriously proposing that a heavy armour piercing weapon like a T21 dishes out less DPS to a 80% kinetic, composite armoured opponent than a VK equipped MTK?Damage, I might add, that is dished out at up to 64 Metres, not toe-to-toe. Let's see your figures with armour piercing factored in. You know that your argument will evaporate in a flurry of numbers, which is probably why you left it out.
The disarities in the TKA vs all other class is plainly indicative and represents an undeniable wish of the developers to include an elite class among classes for the 'truly adept and with a clue' to play, whilst they attempt to hold back their laughter at the propensity of other people to navigate to classes they for some reason enjoy yet are hopelessly underpowered. TKA are self sufficient doctors, masters of all forms of martial combat, masters of all form of targeted attack, masters of all forms of defense, in all categories(toughness is all too often overlooked), so on and so on. What follows are my premonitions of the various changes to occur to the combat system to insure a complete ease for Jedi in all combat situtious they may enter completely without fear or repurcussion except against the TKA, in the following changes.
The ONLY disparity between TKA and other combat classes, is that TKs don't use weapons (VK excluded). TKs are certainly NOT self-sufficient Doctors. Sure they can Power Boost up to 550, if they migrate their stats effectively but that leaves other important stats at 400, which is just begging to be one-shotted UNLESS they have Doctor's buffs. And there you have it. TKs are probably MORE dependent on Doctors than any other combat class. Try spamming specials with VKs equipped without Doctor's Buffs and see how long you last. Your TKA would bite the dust faster than the Intergalactic Ground Nibbling Champion.
Your view of the Devs as evil, cackling deviants, hell bent on some personal vendetta to piss off the majority of players is naive at best. Your premonitions are based on paranoia, not on facts or even common sense.
I wont deal with your five points in detail becausethey appear to be attacking every combat profession in the game with an added attack at the actual game engine. Those side issues don't belong in the TK forum and I suspect you have a standard format of your complaints, which you think will fit in almost any forum. Well, actually they don't and, in this forum, it just serves to weaken your position.
I certainly think your arguments convince me this isn't the game for you, however, you don't need arguments for that, all you need to do is make a choice. I have friends who would absolutely hate this game BUT, guess what, they don't play it. There will eventually come a time when we all move on to another MMORPG. That isn't the fault of the game, it is because there are limits to satisfying our endless hunger for novelty and entertainment. When that happens we will all go through the grieving process and a large component of that will be anger. You seem to be displaying a lot of that, even though it is justified by some very nicely presented figures. It is probably just time to move on to something you really want to do and I wish you every success with your new venture.