Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Am I wrong?
Ternque01 wrote:
In all honesty Nick, high ranked Rebels really get reemed by imperial scan teams. My friend has taken statistics about how often he gets scanned going through Kaadara, Naboo.
For his Rebel colonel, he claims getting scanned 45/100 times he goes through that town.
For his lower ranked (like rank 3 or something) Rebel, he claims 15/100 times he passes through that town.
I think it is very fair for an officer to get cut slack on their own turf if s/he is going to be hit HARD in enemy territory.
This is just a damn cool feature, and I think it is a good design feature. When you are a colonel, you get indentified as a Rebel so fast the scan might not even happen first. That is significantly hard on them.
*edited cause Lithium jacked my paragraph spacing up*
Message Edited by NickHeel on 02-08-2005 08:25 PM
Ternque01 wrote:
You haven't offended me Wolf. It just MURDERS me to see smugglers bad mouth this INCREDIBLE change.
I'm not saying any names, but a few people around here need to calm down (probably myself included)
Name my name bud, I usually don't take criticism here personally. I have my opinions, and I value yours, but I don't see this expanding to something meaningful for neutrals for a very very long time. It pains me that after this we will have to wait for a long awaited, rumored, debated, and nowhere near definite underworld revamp for it to impact neutrals, especially when it could be implemented now.
Please do not misunderstand me in this. I am happy that they are taking a step forward with regards to contraband. What I don't feel is overwhelming joy over a half step forward when a full step is so easily achieved. We are going beyond factions with this. The arguments to date over other GCW changes all at least had validity in their arguments over it being a faction thing. We are now into third party factions, law enforcement, and non faction planetary authorities.
Furthermore, this is still about faction affiliation, not contraband. History to date has shown that fines have no impact on illegal item use. Stiffer penalties must be pursued. Third party factions are only attacking if you are a member of the opposing faction, not because they have contraband. In other words, the law enforcement is now in the game of faction killing, not enforcing the law. Not only that, but because it is so faction oriented, there really isn't a place for the neutral Smuggler in all of it.
I know Corsec will attack if you are an enemy of them, but they do that already and will continue to do that. That is not content expansion.
SpinningCloud wrote:
Ternque,
I appreciate that MAYBE this change will LEAD to something substantial.
However I just don't understand how this will positively affect you...or me...in the game when it goes live.
In our day to day play HOW will this make things better for us as smugglers? Please be quite explicit since I sure can't see it.
You are a man with a very analytical mind. I will offer what I can.
Smugglers need a "law" to break. This much is true.
This change will increase the presence of the law.
An environment with oppressive laws WILL need people who can circumvent them.
This directly creates an environment for smugglers to thrive in. This is unrefutably a step in the correct direction, and you recognise this. How is this not making things better for smugglers?
How you do not see the thickening of the "law" as the creation of a smuggling environment really escapes me. This is as clear to me as my keen love for beer.
I know you like to press that every change that occurs is NOT adding smuggling, and thatis admirable, but SOE needs to take steps to implement smuggling. I don't know if you can smell what is cooking in the kitchen, per say, but this change is a HUGE piece of the puzzle to bringing REAL, ACTUAL smuggling.
It is not a bad thing to loosen your grip on demanding smuggling, but I think it is a premature demand at the moment.
In truth, I do not see how adding actual smuggling would EVEN BE POSSIBLE without the change that we are seeing today with adding zones of control with neutral scan teams helping factioned ones in cities andramping up the heat on criminals.
When you have heat on criminals, you create an impulse for players to find ways to avoid the heat, and the main way is hiring a smuggler or straightening the hell up and upholding the law. Clear as the air dude.
SmugglinZane wrote:
LaughingWolf wrote:
Ternque:
Neutrals will get scanned from all parties, but never will get attacked for a failled scan. (unless they flee maybe, not sure on that one)
Just a little clarification.
But I do agree with you, it is a step in the good direction, yet another one.
Neutrals do not get attack if they flee. They lose faction, and possibly still get fined (can't remember because I don't run since I always evade the scan).
A step in a good direction for some as I've said elsewhere, but not a very good step at all for others. If anyone thinks that they will open neutral players up to combat after these changes are in, you're way more hopeful than I am. The track record for the team is that once something has been addressed, it won't be again for a very very long time... unless it's for Jedi.
I appreciate the maturity that you show, but I cannot say I favor the pessimism. Keep asking for direct changes to be harsher on neutrals, you have a good viewpoint. I wish that even neutrals would be shot, but not for their first offense of possesing contraband.
Local police are more civil toward their citizens than the Empire might be. There is still some degree of protection afforded to non-combatants during this time period, even if they break the law. Didn't the Empire have to cooperate to some degree with local authorities? Sure they walked over it in some cases, but not over petty possession of contraband.
A neutral citizen who gets caught breaking the law all the time should, indeed, get the business end of a blaster. Perhaps we should call for an amendment that creates a visibility rating for nonfactioned scan teams. If a player gets caught a certain number of times in a certain time period.... they get shot!
Ternque01 wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
LaughingWolf wrote:
Ternque:
Neutrals will get scanned from all parties, but never will get attacked for a failled scan. (unless they flee maybe, not sure on that one)
Just a little clarification.
But I do agree with you, it is a step in the good direction, yet another one.
Neutrals do not get attack if they flee. They lose faction, and possibly still get fined (can't remember because I don't run since I always evade the scan).
A step in a good direction for some as I've said elsewhere, but not a very good step at all for others. If anyone thinks that they will open neutral players up to combat after these changes are in, you're way more hopeful than I am. The track record for the team is that once something has been addressed, it won't be again for a very very long time... unless it's for Jedi.
I appreciate the maturity that you show, but I cannot say I favor the pessimism. Keep asking for direct changes to be harsher on neutrals, you have a good viewpoint. I wish that even neutrals would be shot, but not for their first offense of possesing contraband.
Local police are more civil toward their citizens than the Empire might be. There is still some degree of protection afforded to non-combatants during this time period, even if they break the law. Didn't the Empire have to cooperate to some degree with local authorities? Sure they walked over it in some cases, but not over petty possession of contraband.
A neutral citizen who gets caught breaking the law all the time should, indeed, get the business end of a blaster. Perhaps we should call for an amendment that creates a visibility rating for nonfactioned scan teams. If a player gets caught a certain number of times in a certain time period.... they get shot!
The problem lies in that they are involving law enforcement in the faction game. If they were to say that all players would be fined if they're found with contraband, that would be more understandable, but now these third party factions are attacking as well. Regardless of their reason, they should treat em all the same. Maybe call in a rebel team when the catch an Imp on a Rebel occupied planet, but attack them? If they're going to go this route, then they need to go all the way to be fair to all.
I agree that police treat their citizens better, but I may bean outsider. I know that's way more dynamic than we could see, but maybe you're on to something. Maybe if they lost a large (and I mean large) chunk of Corsec faction when failing a Corsec scan (along with a more meaningful fine) then people would accumulate enough negative faction after just a couple failed scans and would be attacked. This gets me back to my other point though. If they already attack when you're an enemy, then a scan doesn't matter.
Message Edited by SmugglinZane on 02-08-2005 11:08 PM
SmugglinZane wrote:
The problem lies in that they are involving law enforcement in the faction game. If they were to say that all players would be fined if they're found with contraband, that would be more understandable, but now these third party factions are attacking as well. Regardless of their reason, they should treat em all the same. Maybe call in a rebel team when the catch an Imp on a Rebel occupied planet, but attack them? If they're going to go this route, then they need to go all the way to be fair to all.
I agree that police treat their citizens better, but I may bean outsider. I know that's way more dynamic than we could see, but maybe you're on to something. Maybe if they lost a large (and I mean large) chunk of Corsec faction when failing a Corsec scan (along with a more meaningful fine) then people would accumulate enough negative faction after just a couple failed scans and would be attacked. This gets me back to my other point though. If they already attack when you're an enemy, then a scan doesn't matter.
I said it somewhere last night. The answer to this is to have players lose a significant amount of faction with the neutral faction they fail the scan with. This will put players in a position where they will begin to be attacked after failing a few scans. It sounds reasonable to me, and would carry the contraband scan system into something meaningful for all players.
Ternque01 wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
The problem lies in that they are involving law enforcement in the faction game. If they were to say that all players would be fined if they're found with contraband, that would be more understandable, but now these third party factions are attacking as well. Regardless of their reason, they should treat em all the same. Maybe call in a rebel team when the catch an Imp on a Rebel occupied planet, but attack them? If they're going to go this route, then they need to go all the way to be fair to all.
I agree that police treat their citizens better, but I may bean outsider. I know that's way more dynamic than we could see, but maybe you're on to something. Maybe if they lost a large (and I mean large) chunk of Corsec faction when failing a Corsec scan (along with a more meaningful fine) then people would accumulate enough negative faction after just a couple failed scans and would be attacked. This gets me back to my other point though. If they already attack when you're an enemy, then a scan doesn't matter.
About scan teams... there are advantages to keeping them factional, and advantages to keeping them nonfactional. They are needed to weed out and crackdown on GCW players in enemy territory, and they are needed to enforce the illegality of contraband in general (something that is sorely needed for continuity, for the underworld, and for the smuggler profession).
On one hand, you don't like scan teams attacking players before they scan, yet you also want scan teams to attack. Do you want them to only attack after they have scanned and found contraband? I didn't say that I didn't want them to attack before they scan, I meant that if they're going to attack anyway, then what's the change and more importantly, where's the need for a Smuggler?
I sense a whole lot of people attacking these local authorities when they get scanned and accumulating alot of negative faction. People have no reason to attack since they automaticly get fined. It remains the same for neutral players as it was before. Before, a non Rebel player did not have the option of attacking (I assume they did this because they figured they would get popped by the scan).
You do raise good questions, but on the other hand, I think that the fines need to be beefed up, and that is it. I think the only time a police force would attack a citizen if they broke the law with possession of illegal contraband would be if they are an enemy of the state, i.e. a combatant during a time of war. This is what is mirrored currently.
On the other hand, this debate on the subject is wearing me thin. You are correct in that neutrals need danger, but I think that will come in time when they build up negative faction. As far as the fines, they could be slightly slightly higher.
On the whole, I think their idea is very well balanced, withneutrals actually getting scanned and fined the most: contrary to what you think. It is the factioned player that will be scanned less, and shot more.
I think, in the future, both groups will find use for a smuggler
Message Edited by Tufel_Hunden on 05-20-2005 11:36 AM